# b & d - how to help a 5 year old remember which is which? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 19, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788 "2005-11-19T09:04:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/21 "2005-11-19T18:47:17Z")
Different letter, but this is how I taught myself to remember which way the “Z” goes, when very young: The “Zenith” TV logo! The bottom part of the Z goes under the rest of the name, so that told me which way the letter should be facing. And they say TV teaches nothing. Maybe you could come up with something along those lines for ‘b’ and ‘d’. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/22 "2005-11-19T18:49:05Z")
> [@csharpmajor](#): > > I think young kids often don’t understand that it’s important which way a letter faces. When you look at real life objects, it doesn’t actually matter which way they go, they’re still the same object. > . Interesting idea, but sometimes it does matter, like which side of the road you drive on. Maybe that would be another way of teaching the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2005, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/23 "2005-11-19T21:21:26Z")
Both letters have a upright (vertical) stroke and a lower part with a ‘bulge’. The ‘b’ has its upright before the bulge (corresponding to its earlier position in the alphabet). The ‘d’ has its upright delayed until after the bulge. With respect to position in the alphabet, this also work for ‘p’ and ‘q’. ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/24 "2005-11-20T01:05:33Z")
Maybe for “S”, you can say something like “the snakes head looks at the end of the story” or something? With a little picture of a snake in an s shape, the child might remember the image and therefore remember the shape, that the top always faces right, the direction in which you’re reading in English? ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/25 "2005-11-20T01:09:50Z")
I teach English in Japan, where text goes all over the place, in any direction, whereever it feels like. Very disconcerting. But even with kids who have no exposure to English except in my class, because we read English picture books, and I always show them the title and that the pages open “This” way, and the print goes “This” way, the kids are not confused about order. You can also do a very exaggerated head swipe from left to right as you “read” your upheld fists". Anything that gets a laugh is remembered. I am sure that China Guy reads to his little ones, and with a bit of pointing out at random times, not necessarily connected to the writing times, she will soon get English writing direction, if she hasn’t unconsciously internalised it already. As others have said, its an organic process with bits of information from various times and places gradually coming together. She’ll have a long phase when she can get all the bits she knows right but not put them together to make a consistent whole. (For example she’ll turn the pages of a picture book the proper way but write diagonally backwards across her notebook). It doesn’t matter! It depends on whether your daughter will tolerate you actually teaching her anything, too. My sons get really stroppy if they smell anything like a lesson coming from me. If she is resistant at this age, I’d say don’t push. I had success in writing little notes for her to read, silly things like “HB Boy is smelly” (works for little boys…) and they would willingly read them. Then I started asking questions in the notes and passing a pencil with the note. This is a good game while waiting for a meal in a restaurant or similar waiting places. If she is willing for you to teach her the stroke order etc then you could try the magic vegetable game - you need to find plastic toy vegetables which could conceivably be pencils - carrots, cucumbers, asparagus, a long eggplant at a pinch! Then you use the magic vegetables to write in the air with her (stand next to her facing the same way!) Another thing you can do is make up a kind of chant about how the letter goes as you write it. For example in my class, you write “b” by going “down, up, boing!” but “d” is written with an “arouuund, up, down!” (if you see what I mean!) This also works with kids who have trouble remembering which is M or N. I often hear kids prompt another one with “boing!” or “boing, boing!” They all love capital R which is “Up, down stop. Top, boing, kick!” As well as the letters, their shapes and names, it is important that she learn phonics, because that will stand her in good stead as she hits words she doesn’t know but will be able to more or less sound them out. This is vital for kanji-learning people who tend to learn words by memorising them. After all you can’t sound a kanji out - you either know it or you don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/26 "2005-11-20T01:13:00Z")
Could someone tell my why my post has triggered two mattress ads?? Was it all the boinging I did?? ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/27 "2005-11-20T18:48:41Z")
I learned it based on lip position. This works as well for p and q as it does for b and d. The b begins with a straight line, like your lips as you begin to say “buh.” The d begins with an open bit, like your lips as you say “duh.” ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2005, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/28 "2005-11-20T18:53:13Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Palms out. Okay, my wrists just aren’t meant to bend that way then. That is really uncomfortable. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/29 "2005-11-21T04:11:28Z")
cool ideas - thanks. China bambina has already got the thumbs up thumbs down working for bdpq. Any hints on little j or little q? adjgq are the letters that face left (or at least have a long stem), and if she’s clear on those then the right facing ones ought to be easy. The Z hint is good too. thanks again ---
**Author:** ![bouv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@bouv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bouv)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/30 "2005-11-21T04:28:30Z")
How about: ‘d’ for “dude, I am totally facing the left” and ‘b’ for “boy am I ever looking to the right!” ---
**Author:** ![anyrose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@anyrose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anyrose)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/31 "2005-11-21T04:46:37Z")
being lazy, i didn’t read every post - so if someone suggested this, forgive me for repeating I am reminded of an Electric Company bit: a man was awaiting the delivery of his new bed. The delivery guys brought the “d” in first, then the “e”, and the “b” last. the man was not comfortable in his “deb” so he swapped the “d” and the “b” and slept soundly in his **bed** ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/32 "2005-11-21T14:11:08Z")
When my daughter was going through this, we taught her that bunnies face to the right and ducks face to the left, then had her draw a bunch of bunnies and ducks facing the appropriate way. Since she anyway loves to draw animals this worked for her. ---
**Author:** ![betenoir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/258eb7/32.png) [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/33 "2005-11-21T14:38:26Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > When my daughter was going through this, we taught her that bunnies face to the right and ducks face to the left, then had her draw a bunch of bunnies and ducks facing the appropriate way. Since she anyway loves to draw animals this worked for her. Yeah but then she’ll be walking through the words on day and see a bunny facing left and it will \*blow her mind \* :eek: . 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/34 "2005-11-21T20:26:20Z")
> [@DfrntBreign](#): > > I had to open this thread to find out why you thought a 5 year old would need to know the difference between bondage and discipline. :eek: > I am SO going to hell. I’ll be in the next fireplace over from yours 😃 Then again, I once noticed a heavy-duty bolt set into the ceiling at the place I was taking my kid for behavioral therapy, and asked the therapist whether they rented the place out for kinky tie-up games during the evenings/weekends. He looked startled, then guffawed, fortunately! More to the point: I don’t know how kids learn to distinguish, but I’ve heard that teachers don’t worry about it until the 2nd grade or so. So at age 5, China Bambina has plenty of time to get it all sorted out. English is a d\*mn tricky language sometimes! ---
**Author:** ![phungi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/phungi/32/395_2.png) [@phungi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phungi)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2005, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/35 "2005-11-21T20:52:53Z")
> [@DfrntBreign](#): > > I had to open this thread to find out why you thought a 5 year old would need to know the difference between bondage and discipline. :eek: > I am SO going to hell. I’ll not only be there, but will have an unused SDMB post ready explaining the difference! ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/36 "2005-11-23T12:49:14Z")
anyhoo, thanks again everyone. The thumb thing really works 🙂 and even better China Mom is not stressed out about it any more. ---
**Author:** ![Hokkaido\_Brit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d26b3c/32.png) [@Hokkaido\_Brit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hokkaido_Brit)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2005, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788/37 "2005-11-23T13:29:36Z")
Pleased to hear it, and don’t let China Mom get stressed out, China Bambina is FIVE! And already doing very well if she is interested at all. She has a lot to take on board and she will achieve it. My elder son is still not interested in reading and writing in any language, and usually writes one-word essays at school (“Have you ever had an experience like the one in the story you just read?” “No.”) but last week he suddenly wrote a two page essay about his role in the school play, complete with a beginning, middle, end, speeches from people, and wonderful imagery. Of course he didn’t use more than about three kanji characters in the whole thing, the rest was written out phonetically, but it was a GREAT essay! And it was published in his school newsletter so everyone in the area got to read it. He’s nine… So CB has a loooong way to go yet! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-d-how-to-help-a-5-year-old-remember-which-is-which/331788.md?page=1)