# \[b\]prisoner\[/b\], honey - you're an idiot. A big dumb one. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444 "2005-01-12T21:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/1 "2005-01-12T21:59:23Z")
From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296439) > [@](#): > > Originally posted by prisoner prisoner6655321 > \*Understand that I think that a driver about to get into an accident is MORE responsible of the accident than a young girl who dresses slutty getting raped. In the case of rape, the young girl has maybe 5% of the responsibility. \* Sorry dude - a 13 year old girl who gets forceably raped by a grown man has 0% of the responsibility, even if she was stark, raving nude. Your post is dumb, and your opinion is dumb. That is all. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/2 "2005-01-12T22:11:03Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > From [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=296439) > > Sorry dude - a 13 year old girl who gets forceably raped by a grown man has 0% of the responsibility, even if she was stark, raving nude. > > Your post is dumb, and your opinion is dumb. > > That is all. I want to agree with you, but… there’s a question in my mind as to what “responsibility” means in this context. If someone does something risky, and something bad happens to them, does that mean they’re responsible for it? If someone drives without a seatbelt, or mountain climbs without a safety rope, or smokes, and then suffers a predictable consequence, we point that out. But what if someone, say, walks around after dark in a sketchy party of town looking drunk and wearing slutty clothing? One thing that makes this a touchy issue is that it sounds like arguing that the victim is partly “responsible” in some way lessens the responsibility of the attacker, which is certainly NOT true. If you forcibly rape a woman, you are responsible for her suffering and deserve to be punished, which is true regardless of what she was wearing. (I hope that all makes sense.) ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/3 "2005-01-12T22:16:17Z")
Dude - we’re talking about a 13 year old girl. She can’t even consent to sex with someone she likes, let alone a rapist - she’s 100% off the hook. ---
**Author:** ![MLS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MLS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MLS)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/4 "2005-01-12T22:16:36Z")
Nope. Doesn’t matter how she’s dressed, what she’s doing, or where she goes. Imagine this defense, if you will: Your Honor, those diamonds were just, well, right out there in the window for anybody to see. All twinkly. The store had bright lights shining on them just so I could see how sparkly they were. They were just asking for it. I had to have them. It’s only 50% my fault that I broke the window and stole them. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/5 "2005-01-12T22:18:36Z")
I’m with **alice**. This type of thing shouldn’t even be up for debate. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/6 "2005-01-12T22:19:28Z")
Oh **alice** , stop discriminating against his Christian values!!! :dubious: [sub]that’s sarcastic, just for the morons around here[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/7 "2005-01-12T22:20:11Z")
What you say is true. It is also true that people have a responsability to keep themselves safe and avoid dangerous situations. The rape is not lessened by the womans action, but neither is the womans action without some place for repremand. It is understood that some people are bad, so we have a responsability to try and keep ourselves safe from the bad people. Hanging out near crack houses, dressing like prostitutes, walking alone at night are all activities that cary a level of predeterminable risk, and so should be avoided as much as possible. Though anyone should be able to do any lawfull thing they wish without putting themselves at risk, in the real world real and somewhat avoidable risks exist. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/8 "2005-01-12T22:21:10Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > But what if someone, say, walks around after dark in a sketchy party of town looking drunk and wearing slutty clothing? BTW - I have to point out how badly this sort of thinking paints men to be. “So stupid and pathetic that a young girl in a mini-skirt provoked him into raping her.” I’ve never actually met a man as moronic as this. Rapists are predators - the girl could be in a burka and be just as likely a target. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/9 "2005-01-12T22:21:24Z")
“Your Honour, the guy with the flashy jewelry who I robbed is just as responsible as I for the burglary. He tempted me. He should serve half of my sentence.” People don’t but that argument over material goods - why would anyone in their right mind buy that argument when it comes to this? Now, it is certainly true that it may be _unwise_ to dress sexy - but only because there are a lot of bad people about. It is all a matter of context. Using the jewelry analogy, it is “unwise” to wear expensive jewelry in a place you think may have a lot of potential criminals, but that sure doesn’t make you “responsible” for being robbed if you get robbed. That responsibility is the robbers’, and his or her alone. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/10 "2005-01-12T22:22:12Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > What you say is true. It is also true that people have a responsability to keep themselves safe and avoid dangerous situations. The rape is not lessened by the womans action, but neither is the womans action without some place for repremand. It is understood that some people are bad, so we have a responsability to try and keep ourselves safe from the bad people. Hanging out near crack houses, dressing like prostitutes, walking alone at night are all activities that cary a level of predeterminable risk, and so should be avoided as much as possible. > Though anyone should be able to do any lawfull thing they wish without putting themselves at risk, in the real world real and somewhat avoidable risks exist. Didja all miss the part where the “woman” in question is a 13 year old girl? Well? Didja? ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/11 "2005-01-12T22:22:55Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > What you say is true. It is also true that people have a responsability to keep themselves safe and avoid dangerous situations. The rape is not lessened by the womans action, but neither is the womans action without some place for repremand. It is understood that some people are bad, so we have a responsability to try and keep ourselves safe from the bad people. Hanging out near crack houses, dressing like prostitutes, walking alone at night are all activities that cary a level of predeterminable risk, and so should be avoided as much as possible. > Though anyone should be able to do any lawfull thing they wish without putting themselves at risk, in the real world real and somewhat avoidable risks exist. A thirteen year old does not truly have the mental capacity to make that determination. I agree with the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/12 "2005-01-12T22:23:02Z")
wow! simul-simul-simul-simul post. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/13 "2005-01-12T22:23:15Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > Nope. Doesn’t matter how she’s dressed, what she’s doing, or where she goes. > > Imagine this defense, if you will: > > Your Honor, those diamonds were just, well, right out there in the window for anybody to see. All twinkly. The store had bright lights shining on them just so I could see how sparkly they were. They were just asking for it. I had to have them. It’s only 50% my fault that I broke the window and stole them. Ya beat me to it. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/14 "2005-01-12T22:24:24Z")
Responsibility is not zero-sum. ---
**Author:** ![Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ac8455/32.png) [@Bippy\_the\_Beardless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bippy_the_Beardless)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/15 "2005-01-12T22:25:00Z")
To sum up (and after seeing the x replies) The rapist is 100% responsable for the rape. The girl is 0% responsable for the rape. But, also, the girl is 100% responsable for not looking out for her own saftey quite as much as she could. Hope that makes sense. The girl has no responsability with respect to the illegal thing (rape in this case) that happened. So criminal action against the rapist should have no baring on what legal things the girl was doing even if they were not necessarily the wisest of actions. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/16 "2005-01-12T22:25:03Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > The rape is not lessened by the womans action, but neither is the womans action without some place for repremand. 13 years old does not qualify as “woman.” In any sense of the word, not even physically. And, for the eleventy ninth time, rape is not a sexual act. It is a violent act of physical aggression. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/17 "2005-01-12T22:27:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*\* If someone drives without a seatbelt, or mountain climbs without a safety rope, or smokes, and then suffers a predictable consequence, we point that out.\*\* You’re missing that there are different rules for children. If it’s a child who went mountain climbing without proper equipment and had to be rescued by helicopter, we “point out” the egregious stupidity of it differently than if it were an adult. ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/18 "2005-01-12T22:27:41Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > But, also, the girl is 100% responsable for not looking out for her own saftey quite as much as she could. Isn’t that responsibility divided between the girl and her parents? And at thirteen weighted towards the parents considerably? ---
**Author:** ![Lobsang](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobsang/32/4067_2.png) [@Lobsang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobsang)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/19 "2005-01-12T22:28:18Z")
> [@Bippy the Beardless](#): > > But, also, the girl is 100% responsable for not looking out for her own saftey quite as much as she could. Isn’t that responsibility divided between the girl and her parents? And at thirteen weighted towards the parents considerably? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Devil_s_Grandmother)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/20 "2005-01-12T22:32:17Z")
How come nobody ever says it’s a man’s fault for being mugged/gay bashed/whatever because he was walking alone at night? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444.md?page=2)