# \[b\]prisoner\[/b\], honey - you're an idiot. A big dumb one. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 12, 2005, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444 "2005-01-12T21:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2005, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/181 "2005-01-13T23:22:16Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > _sigh_ I suppose precautions are useless, but I have a hard time believing that, probably because I don’t want to believe it. If victims could protect themselves, then we wouldn’t have as much of a problem. Do you see why I wish this was the case? Can you blame me for not wanting to give up hope? We wouldn’t have as much of a problem with what? If all potential rape victims were able to successfully defend themselves against potential rapists, then we wouldn’t have the problem of dealing with the aftermath of any actual rapes. However, we’d still have the problem of people who _want_ to be rapists, even if they don’t succeed at it. These people are the real problem! And nothing a potential victim does to protect him or herself changes that. > [@](#): > > \*Of course. But there’s not much you can do about his actions, right? If we could somehow get him to stop, I’m sure we’d all do whatever we could to make that happen. You understand that we’d all give our collective right arm to keep you safe, don’t you? And that preventing rape attempts in the first place is the ideal way to do that? But in the real world, we can’t always be there for you. So the number one person responsible for looking out for your safety is you. Sometimes you’ll fail, we all know that, and it can’t helped. That’s sad. But if you learn to protect yourself, you stand a better chance. And far from making you cower in fear, it’s extremely liberating. \*I think there’s an important distinction here that a lot of people are missing – the difference between preventing the _attempt_ of a sexual assault and stopping or escaping from a person who is already making the attempt. There’s not much a potential victim (and we’re all potential victims) can do to prevent a rape attempt, other than maybe push for stricter sentencing to discourage would-be rapists. It seems strange to me that so many people seem to think otherwise. I mean, we don’t talk about how to prevent murder attempts. Like rapists, murderers can have any number of motivations and can target their victims for any number of reasons…although they’re most likely to strike people they already know. Some scenarios are more common than others, but there’s really no predicting who will be targeted or why. Once an attempt is _already in progress_, or at least in the planning stages, there may be something the target can do to increase his or her odds of escape. This depends on the situation and even the wisest choices may not do any good, but it’s the only point where the target’s actions could make any practical difference. This is what self-defense classes focus on. Basic safety precautions like “don’t leave your drink unattended” or “use the buddy system” are also efforts to foil the plans of someone _already intending to rape_. Contrary to our moronic friend **prisoner** ’s claims, dressing in a particular fashion doesn’t make a teenaged girl responsible for her own rape. Clothing isn’t even going to make her a target for rape – at least not in any predictable way. I suppose there could be serial rapists who only go after women in high heels, but one that focused on women in Doc Martens is equally plausible. Clothing doesn’t make any practical difference until the rape attempt is already in progress, and only then if it affects the target’s ability to run away or defend herself. In some cases the victim may have no chance to escape no matter how practical her clothing is. But again, her clothing wouldn’t even be a factor in her odds of escape if someone weren’t already trying to rape her. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/182 "2005-01-14T00:41:54Z")
> [@Maureen](#): > > You agree it’s a crime, but you expect the victims to shoulder some of the burden of that crime simply because you don’t like me calling men you’ve known monsters. That’s total bullshit. I don’t think anyone in this thread said that the victims should shoulder some of the burden. But some of us have said that people should be proactive in their own safety. I can’t put it any plainer than that. Don’t take the blame, but take care. How that is not sensible advice is beyond me. Time for another bad analogy? Goody! Like most everybody else, my computer is the target for spammers, spyware, malware, and all sorts of malfeasence. If I get a virus, should I be blamed? No. Was I just asking for it? Of course not. Did I deserve it? Not on your life. Does the person who wrote it deserve to go to jail? Absolutely. Despite these moral issues, however, there is every chance that I’m at risk for some techno-treachery. Am I helpless to do anything about it? No, I can install all sorts of firewalls and spamblockers and stuff. I may not be able to beat the spammers, but I can try to mitigate the damage they do. I’ve then acted responsibly towards my own property. As a side benefit, I get the warm fuzzy feeling that I’m taking a little more control over my own destiny. Does it suck that I have to do that? Yes, but I consider the alternatives and I make a choice. AmI asking too many questions that I intend to answer? Hell no! I whole heartedly agree that the law should take rapists off the street. I also agree that educating boys on the evils of rape would help immensely. But the sad fact is that we’ll never be completely rid of rapists. It’s an unfortunate part of the human condition, I’m afraid. Yes, it sucks, no doubt about it. What else can you do to ensure you don’t get raped? Take action to prevent it! I already suggested kicking the guy in the balls. Here are some more bad ideas: Try not to be alone in isolated areas. Don’t accept drinks from strangers. Take a self-defense class. Don’t get totally wasted at frat parties. Start a program that teaches boys what “no” means. Ask your congressperson to support tougher rape laws. Get a license to carry mace. Wear a suit of armor everywhere you go, and carry a big fish. Start a neighborhood watch program. Call the gas company to make sure the gas man lurking outside your home is really supposed to be there. Buy a bazooka. No guarantee of safety, but you just might thwart that one attempt. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/183 "2005-01-14T00:46:47Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Time for another bad analogy? Goody! > > Like most everybody else, my computer is the target for spammers, spyware, malware, and all sorts of malfeasence. If I get a virus, should I be blamed? No. Was I just asking for it? Of course not. Did I deserve it? Not on your life. Does the person who wrote it deserve to go to jail? Absolutely. Ya know, having been the victim of both of these, I really can’t tell you how offensive I find it that you think they are in any way analogous. Really. Totally sickening. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/184 "2005-01-14T00:50:09Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Yes, except when it isn’t. If a person (man or woman) is violated with a broom handle, it’s still a rape. The “sex” part comes in because that’s the part of the person being assulted, and has nothing to do with what the attacker is assulting with. Thus the attacker is not having “sex” with the victim, or performing a “sex act” with the victim. They are attacking the “sex organs” of the victim. Well, inasmuch as a man pleasuring a woman with a vibrator is not having sex with her. Thus we get into the Bill Clinton school of sex definitions. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/185 "2005-01-14T00:59:32Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Ya know, having been the victim of both of these, I really can’t tell you how offensive I find it that you think they are in any way analogous. > > Really. Totally sickening. Oh come now, I’m starting to think that you’re trying your hardest to take offense at anything anyone says. I am **not** saying that getting a computer virus is as bad as rape. It takes a purposeful misreading to get that out of what I said. What on Earth would lead you to believe that was the intent of my post? Honestly. ---
**Author:** ![alice\_in\_wonderland](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alice_in_wonderland/32/176_2.png) [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/186 "2005-01-14T01:09:39Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > Honestly. Honestly, it seems like you’re being willfully obtuse, and refusing to accept the opinion of not only a prosecutor who’s tried rape cases and is disagreeing with you, but also a boat loat of women who’ve actually experienced rape and are telling your perceptions are incorrect. Whatever. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/187 "2005-01-14T01:22:38Z")
> [@alice\_in\_wonderland](#): > > Honestly, it seems like you’re being willfully obtuse, and refusing to accept the opinion of not only a prosecutor who’s tried rape cases and is disagreeing with you, but also a boat loat of women who’ve actually experienced rape and are telling your perceptions are incorrect. > > Whatever. OK, then, let’s see if I’ve got this straight – rape is an inevitability, and there are absolutely zero steps that women can take to protect themselves. They shouldn’t even try. They should just accept their lot in life as rape victims. Is that about right? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/188 "2005-01-14T01:33:51Z")
I agree with everything that **alice** , **Maureen** , **Lamia** , **lee** and **Try As I Might…** have said. If I forgot anyone, I appologize. I do have a question, though. I have heard warnings to women traveling to certain countries, to adopt conservative dress, to ward off harassment. Not rape, but just harassment. (I assume men propositioning her, and assuming she’s a prostitute.) Where does this fit in? Even then, it says something more about the mindset of that culture, that treats women as objects. I do think we need to study what drives rapists, in order to find these horrible assholes and deal with them BEFORE they harm others. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/189 "2005-01-14T01:39:55Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > OK, then, let’s see if I’ve got this straight – rape is an inevitability, and there are absolutely zero steps that women can take to protect themselves. They shouldn’t even try. They should just accept their lot in life as rape victims. By the way, this came off as snarky, but I’m dead serious in asking it. Because if it’s true, then I’m genuinely perplexed. ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/190 "2005-01-14T02:08:23Z")
> [@Lamia](#): > > We wouldn’t have as much of a problem with what? If all potential rape victims were able to successfully defend themselves against potential rapists, then we wouldn’t have the problem of dealing with the aftermath of any actual rapes. And that would be a good thing, right? I’m getting the message that that’s strictly impossible, though I don’t understand why. But in theory, it would be a good thing? > [@](#): > > However, we’d still have the problem of people who _want_ to be rapists, even if they don’t succeed at it. These people are the real problem! And nothing a potential victim does to protect him or herself changes that. It would be nice to solve that one too, of course. I don’t think we ever will, not 100%, but is there a way to at least reduce the number? If so, why are we not doing it? ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/191 "2005-01-14T02:30:19Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > It would be nice to solve that one too, of course. I don’t think we ever will, not 100%, but is there a way to at least reduce the number? If so, why are we not doing it? Because it is still accepted as fact that women are partially to blame for getting raped. Because it is still seen as sex at some level. Because it is excused as consensual in the minds of a large number of people, quite a few of them in positions of authority. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/192 "2005-01-14T02:48:15Z")
This is a weird thread. It’s like none of the women are listening to what the men are saying, and at any turn of phrase that might somehow possibly in some small way be misinterpreted, are deliberately taking offence as though all men are idiots and can’t possibly understand anything at all. It’s quite disheartening. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/193 "2005-01-14T03:00:39Z")
> [@tdn](#): > > I don’t think anyone in this thread said that the victims should shoulder some of the burden. But some of us have said that people should be proactive in their own safety. I can’t put it any plainer than that. Don’t take the blame, but take care. How that is not sensible advice is beyond me. > > What else can you do to ensure you don’t get raped? Take action to prevent it! > > I already suggested kicking the guy in the balls. Here are some more bad ideas: > > Try not to be alone in isolated areas. > Don’t accept drinks from strangers. > Take a self-defense class. > Don’t get totally wasted at frat parties. > Start a program that teaches boys what “no” means. > Ask your congressperson to support tougher rape laws. > Get a license to carry mace. > Wear a suit of armor everywhere you go, and carry a big fish. > Start a neighborhood watch program. > Call the gas company to make sure the gas man lurking outside your home is really supposed to be there. > Buy a bazooka. > > No guarantee of safety, but you just might thwart that one attempt. I think what might be the problem is the preconceived notion of rape. IMO, you are still in the “it’s a stranger in a dark place who targets the woman in the low cut blouse” scenario. Your tips are well intentioned, but not comprehensive. I am sure that it is one scenario–but not the most common. Who do you call to stop “Uncle Ted” from molesting you? How do you stop the home intruder, who turns out to be the pizza guy you talked with last summer? What do you do to handle the out of town business conference when your boss two levels up has had one too many and won’t leave you alone/take no for an answer? You have to understand that women live with this every fucking day of our lives. I am not a victim/survivor of rape. I am a survivior of a few attempts at rape–Neither of them involved a stranger. The two I suffered thru were dates from hell-one in HS and one in college. For example, the fact that I cannot even walk alone in the woods on a nice fall day enrages me. NO-sometimes I don’t want to walk with a GF–sometimes I would like to be alone. IF I were to walk alone and was raped–guess what? _I_ would be blamed for walking alone. _That’s_ engaging in a risky behavior. People would shake their heads and say–what was she thinking, walking alone like that? Do you see the insidiousness of this mindset? WTF is this? Never mind the fact that I could be a friggin’ black belt and STILL get raped. Maybe you just don’t get it, **tdn**. One more time: by emphasizing all the behaviors/actions that women “should” and “must” take; by putting the onus on the female/gay male/child–YOU are perpetuating the mindset that the victims have brought the misfortune on themselves. Again, I suggest substituting “murder” for rape–is the woman killed in the midst of a convenience store hold-up in any way to blame for her murder? NO. then why would a woman RAPED in the same circumstances be judged for not “fighting back”, wearing a T-shirt, running away? Can you not see this? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/194 "2005-01-14T03:14:55Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > This is a weird thread. It’s like none of the women are listening to what the men are saying, and at any turn of phrase that might somehow possibly in some small way be misinterpreted, are deliberately taking offence as though all men are idiots and can’t possibly understand anything at all. I’m glad you said that. I was beginning to wonder if I was imagining it. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/195 "2005-01-14T03:17:14Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > This is a weird thread. It’s like none of the women are listening to what the men are saying, and at any turn of phrase that might somehow possibly in some small way be misinterpreted, are deliberately taking offence as though all men are idiots and can’t possibly understand anything at all. > > It’s quite disheartening. That’s because the men keep saying the same thing over and over in different ways. And no matter how many different ways you say “it’s sexual, at least partly, it has to be” it still doesn’t make it true. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/196 "2005-01-14T03:21:43Z")
See, this is where I think the basic breakdown comes in. You think we’re not listening. We are. And we totally understand what you’re saying. You’re just wrong. We’ve explained in detail how. I’m sorry you don’t like the explanations. **tdn** , you’ve already admitted you don’t want to believe what’s been said. There’s not a whole lot more any of us can say if you’re not willing to open your mind _this much_ becasue of some preconceived notion you’ve had for most of your life. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/197 "2005-01-14T03:23:26Z")
That’s not _only_ what they’re saying, and that’s not _only_ what the women are getting upset about, in fact it’s only a small and more recent part of it. If it wasn’t sexual, though, wouldn’t the rape instead be physical abuse, or something? Isn’t there some small part that has to be sexual simply because it involves a sexual act? How can it not? Isn’t it like saying “eating has nothing to do with food, it’s all about the chef!”? **Please note** I’m not equating the horrible act of rape with the pleasant nature of eating food. It’s meant as an analogy on semantics. ---
**Author:** ![Syntropy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/65b543/32.png) [@Syntropy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Syntropy)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/198 "2005-01-14T03:30:40Z")
Ok. Enough analogies. Because, they just aren’t even comparable. Especially not that one. And, we _have_ explained. In detail. Several times. Rape is an act of physical force and aggression. Please go back and see what **Try As I Might…** has said. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/199 "2005-01-14T03:34:07Z")
> [@GuanoLad](#): > > That’s not _only_ what they’re saying, and that’s not _only_ what the women are getting upset about, in fact it’s only a small and more recent part of it. > > If it wasn’t sexual, though, wouldn’t the rape instead be physical abuse, or something? Isn’t there some small part that has to be sexual simply because it involves a sexual act? How can it not? . It is and it isn’t. It’s about “sex” in that rape involves sexual acts. However, in this case, sex is merely used as a tool. The main objective to a rapist is to humiliate, control, degrade, harm, etc. It’s about maintaining power over someone, dominating them, causing them pain. Sex is merely the method used to accomplish that. Does that make sense? ---
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [January 14, 2005, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444/200 "2005-01-14T03:34:47Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I think what might be the problem is the preconceived notion of rape. IMO, you are still in the “it’s a stranger in a dark place who targets the woman in the low cut blouse” scenario. Your tips are well intentioned, but not comprehensive. I’m glad you mentioned that I’m well intentioned (hey, that rhymes!). It was feeling like no matter what I said, I’m still the big bad rapist in everyone’s eyes here. Thanks. Anyway, my tips were not meant to be comprehensive, just idea starters. I threw them together while eating soba. I’ll leave it to others to come up with actual working ideas. And I’m NOT still in that mindset of the dark place. And yet, every time I hear of a rape in this area, it’s always a lone woman in a secluded area. The last one I heard of was next to the pond behind my apartment. Seems like common sense, upon hearing that, to avoid that area. My girlfriend has since never been back. > [@](#): > > I am sure that it is one scenario–but not the most common. Who do you call to stop “Uncle Ted” from molesting you? How do you stop the home intruder, who turns out to be the pizza guy you talked with last summer? What do you do to handle the out of town business conference when your boss two levels up has had one too many and won’t leave you alone/take no for an answer? Um… Other, different strategies? Ones I haven’t mentioned? And realize that sometimes there’s just nothing you can do. Nobody likes it, but, well, there it is. Sometimes life sucks. > [@](#): > > You have to understand that women live with this every fucking day of our lives. I do understand that, thank you. What else would you have me say? > [@](#): > > People would shake their heads and say–what was she thinking, walking alone like that? Do you see the insidiousness of this mindset? Yes, I do, and that sucks, too. But surely one can strike a balance between safety and worrying about what other people think. > [@](#): > > Maybe you just don’t get it, **tdn**. One more time: by emphasizing all the behaviors/actions that women “should” and “must” take; by putting the onus on the female/gay male/child–YOU are perpetuating the mindset that the victims have brought the misfortune on themselves. Except I’ve never emphasized that. All I’m saying is take care of yourself. Apparently that makes me some sort of horrible monster. Fine, don’t take care of yourself. There, that should redeem me in your eyes. > [@](#): > > Again, I suggest substituting “murder” for rape–is the woman killed in the midst of a convenience store hold-up in any way to blame for her murder? NO. Now you’re just being silly. But what if said convenience store had such a murder every week? Would it be smart or dumb for you to patronize that store? [QUOTE] then why would a woman RAPED in the same circumstances be judged for not “fighting back”, wearing a T-shirt, running away? I realize that being judged comes as part of the deal, and that’s unfortunate. but – and I know I’m saying this for the first time here – I’M NOT TALKING ABOUT JUDGEMENT! I’M TALKING ABOUT TAKING PRECAUTIONS! Which leads me to… > [@](#): > > Can you not see this? Hey! They’re playing my song! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-prisoner-b-honey-youre-an-idiot-a-big-dumb-one/284444.md?page=11)