# B(r)ushfires - SoCal Dopers All OK? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [October 26, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726 "2003-10-26T21:59:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/81 "2003-10-29T20:01:27Z")
It’s good to see you check in **Esprix**. I’ve been looking for you. Hope we’ll hear from our other dopers still unaccounted for soon. Kathy ---
**Author:** ![yawndave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/43a26b/32.png) [@yawndave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yawndave)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/82 "2003-10-29T20:38:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*I just heard on the news that _the entire town of Cuyamaca is gone!_ :eek: > > Did I hear that right? \*\* I think that it is pretty well destroyed. As I write this,(12:30PM on Wednesday) the town of Julian is being threatened on two fronts–the TV reports show flames on the ridge just above the main drag…perhaps 1/4 mile away. Our area of Scripps Ranch was spared, but there were many, many homes burned to the ground less than 2 miles away. No matter what some critics may say, the public safety personnel are doing one heck of a job. If the city of San Diego has any class at all, they’ll throw some kind of huge party to thank the people who laid their lives on the line to save us. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/83 "2003-10-29T21:44:06Z")
I heard that the Cuyamaca Town Hall and the fire station still stand, but that’s it. My mom used to live in Scripps Ranch. I heard a San Diego resident complaining yesterday about the distribution of resources. I don’t know if he was referring to sending firefighters to the L.A. area fires (which were burning before the San Diego fires), or sending them to the fires in San Diego but just not in his neighbourhood. He was practically frothing at the mouth! Woe betide that bonehead hunter if he ever meets this guy! (Or, no doubt, any of many other people.) ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/84 "2003-10-29T22:34:06Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > > \*\*Woe betide that bonehead hunter if he ever meets this guy! (Or, no doubt, any of many other people.) \*\* Well, there’s a chance the fire wasn’t started by the hunter, or, that if it was, he may end up not being held liable for it due to diminished capacity. > [@](#): > > [http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/fires/20031027-2327-start.html](http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/fires/20031027-2327-start.html) > > \*\*Investigators aren’t certain hunter set Cedar fire \*\* > > \ > > “In order to do a thorough and exact fire investigation, you have to rule out everything that didn’t start the fire to find out what did start the fire,” she said. “We can’t jump to conclusions.” > > \ > > According to sheriff’s Deputy Dave Weldon, who piloted the rescue flight, the two men were deer hunting when Martinez wandered off. After 11 hours without food or water, Weldon said, Martinez apparently started a small fire to signal for help. > > \ > > Weldon said Martinez was delirious and couldn’t walk, so Weldon and his partner, Deputy Rocky Laws, dragged and carried him back to the aircraft. > > While lifting Martinez into the helicopter, Weldon said, Laws asked Martinez if he had started the fire. > > “He said, ‘No . . . I’m sorry. I’m sorry about all of this,’” Weldon said. “He was basically delirious.” > > “I asked him what he started it with, and he wouldn’t comment,” Weldon added. “He just remained quiet.” > > “Then he said: ‘I thought I was going to die out there. Thanks for saving my life.’” > > Martinez was treated for dehydration. He’s got to be feeling pretty much like shit right now. ---
**Author:** ![cadolphin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c37758/32.png) [@cadolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cadolphin)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/85 "2003-10-29T22:50:48Z")
Granted Rhode Island is the smallest state, but it sure struck me hard when I heard one of the newsmen say the fire is now the size of Rhode Island. Kathy ---
**Author:** ![TheLoadedDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@TheLoadedDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheLoadedDog)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2003, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/86 "2003-10-29T23:16:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by cadolphin \* > \*\*Granted Rhode Island is the smallest state, but it sure struck me hard when I heard one of the newsmen say the fire is now the size of Rhode Island. \*\* There is so much about these Californian fires that brings back memories of the Sydney fires of Christmas 2001. One of those things is the incredible statistical information such as the “fires the size of Rhode Island” mentioned. We had reports of “fire fronts hundreds of kilometres long”. Same deal. The unbelievable figures, the blood red sky, the freaky satellite photos, the worried emails… In fact, reading this entire thread is reliving the whole thing. Safely in the suburbs, I remember thinking the apocalyptic red sky was a bit of excitement. For a day or two, at least. Then the reports of loss of life and property started coming in, I started coughing and my eyes smarted, visibility got down to a few metres, and it wasn’t fun at all. Our Christmas lunch was outside (summer here, remember), and I’ll never forget looking at the red sky in the middle of the day, and seeing a lone blackened eucalyptus leaf float down into my yard: “Hey, look at this! The fire is many, many miles away, and this leaf made it all the way to the city!” It seemed the odds of that were long, until another leaf fell. And another. For a day or so at the height of the fires, we had black snow. That was a time I will never forget. And the Sydney fires were much, much smaller. The sheer scale of the Californian inferno absolutely beggars belief. I’m very thankful that the SoCal Doper community has been relatively unscathed, although many of you have friends and relatives directly affected. Thanks to everyone who has taken the extra effort to post here in the midst of the chaos to let us know they’re safe. ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/87 "2003-10-30T01:14:35Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by **scout1222** _ > > I do believe that **jkusters** , **thomasm** and **Esprix** all share a house. So if **Esprix** checks in okay, the other two should be good, too. Yup, we’re all fine. And we could see blue skies today, which was nicer than that burnt orange that’s been hanging around all weekend. Blah. Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/88 "2003-10-30T01:43:08Z")
**Esprix** , I’m glad to see your name. I’ve been worried about you, too, and **dreamer** , same goes for you. I watched the evening news last night for a change, and I cannot imagine the horror. Stay safe, folks, and those of you who want prayers, you’ve got them! CJ ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/89 "2003-10-30T02:14:23Z")
There might be some good to come out of these fires. The inferno has gotten rid of the underbrush, making large fires less likely for a while. Many of the dead trees in the San Bernardino Mountains (Arrowhead and Big Bear) had been killed by a Japanese beetle infestation. Perhaps the fire has wiped out the beetle population? ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/90 "2003-10-30T02:43:09Z")
From [Foxnews.com](http://Foxnews.com), I hear that the first firefighter has died. DAMMIT! I am so sorry for all of those in the area, and will pray for your safety. I’m rather upset that when I turn on CNN to get an update, they’re focused on the Peterson trial. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/91 "2003-10-30T02:52:25Z")
Yes, apparently a crew were overtaken by the fire. That sucks. I hope they catch that son of a bitch arsonist. ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/92 "2003-10-30T03:26:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Johnny L.A. \* > \*\*There might be some good to come out of these fires. The inferno has gotten rid of the underbrush, making large fires less likely for a while. Many of the dead trees in the San Bernardino Mountains (Arrowhead and Big Bear) had been killed by a Japanese beetle infestation. Perhaps the fire has wiped out the beetle population? \*\* And since terrorists destroyed The World Trade Center, the chanced of the World Trade Center being destroyed are nil. ---
**Author:** ![Blonde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blonde)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/93 "2003-10-30T03:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Baraqiyal \* > \*\*And since terrorists destroyed The World Trade Center, the chanced of the World Trade Center being destroyed are nil. \*\* I’m a blonde, so you’re going to have to describe the connection in very simple terms, speaking very slowly. 🙂 I’m so appalled at the loss of life you all are experiencing (I don’t even want to think about all the wildlife - thanks so damn much for showing the picture of Bambi running from the fire, [foxnews.com](http://foxnews.com)!) Earthquakes, wildfires, and mudslides. Well, at least you’ve got the wonderful weather and ocean views. Please give us an update, Southern Cal Dopers, and we are keeping you in our thoughts. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/94 "2003-10-30T03:51:01Z")
**Baraqiyal** : That was a little uncalled for, don’t you think? In case you have not read my other posts to this thread, I am not taking the fires lightly. I was merely making a reference to the well-known benefits that happen when there are forest fires. That’s why they let Yellowstone burn several years ago. It is a natural process. But these fires were not caused naturally. The ones in San Diego were apparently caused by carelessness, and the ones near L.A. were caused by a domestic terrorist. The loss of lives and property are appalling. Nevertheless, the fires do clear out the undergrowth and may help to eradicate the beetle problem. ---
**Author:** ![Baraqiyal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@Baraqiyal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baraqiyal)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/95 "2003-10-30T04:27:07Z")
I still don’t understand the logic Johnny. The fires in the San Bernardino mountains are going to be pretty much worst case scenario by the time they’re out. Are you saying that it’s beneficial to have a worst case scenario now to avoid the possibility of one in the future? Besides, the situation with the beetle infestation would only get better with time as homeowners were being forced to cut down and haul away dead trees on their property. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/96 "2003-10-30T05:08:02Z")
We had ash rain this morning all the way out here in Santa Barbara, about 50 miles from the nearest fire. The air quality is absolute crap. Even here in the house my nose is totally dried out and my eyes are watering. The sunsets are colors that I didn’t know existed and the sliver moon is crimson. I feel guilty for appreciating the beautiful colors in the sky. Haj ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/97 "2003-10-30T05:28:46Z")
Hi, all. I’m out in the desert of east county, San Diego, far out of harm’s way. Unfortunately, half the teachers where I work own homes in Julian, and I am twisted into knots worrying for them. Monday, school was cancelled because those teachers were scrambling around Julian trying to make sure everyone was taken care of, making evacuation plans just in case, and doing whatever they could to prevent the fire from taking their homes. I stopped in at school to catch details, and learned that the high school had been designated a Red Cross shelter in case Julian was evacuated. We had a power outage from 8 a.m. til 8 p.m. because transformers and power lines were destroyed further west. (Don’t ask me why SDG&E didn’t switch us over to Imperial County Power. We’re on their physical network. I dunno, really, I don’t.) Tuesday morning, I headed in to school and was told we were expected to be there all day, even though the students weren’t. I avoided grading for three hours, and when I wandered into the office for distraction heard the news that Julian was being evacuated, and they were all coming here. Then the power went out again. I spent the next hour hand-drawing maps of the school and the town so people could find their way. Nearly 20 of our 130 high school students showed up asking what they could do to help. We put them to setting up cots and posting signs. By two o’clock, we had people streaming in. By six o’clock, we had a four page long list of people offering sanctuary for pets, a three page list of people offering rooms and homes, tents, RVs, and hotel rooms, a nine page list of volunteers offering time and energy, more donations of blankets, food, and supplies than we could shake a very large stick at, students running this way and that on their own direction, taking charge and solving problems, and every conceivable agency (except, it would seem, SDG&E, doing everything they could to help us). I stayed until 10 p.m. answering phones, compiling lists of people who’d signed in, calling hotels, bugging people for donations (got a _nice_ chunk of stuff out of the Temecula CostCo!), helping the Red Cross folks, troubleshooting problems, and generally trying desperately to help. I was back at nine o’clock this morning for a mandatory staff meeting (point: while Red Cross is here, your job is to help them. Put in your regular hours and whatever more you feel up to.) I found a counselor for a family who’d just lost everything. I updated lists, brought in donations from True Value, dropped off my laundry supplies at the laundromat for evacuees who didn’t have any (finally that jumbo bottle of detergent will get used!), ran out to the campgrounds to get a census - and ended up being the one to tell a lady that her neighborhood had been hit hard by the fire - tried to track down (figuratively) horses that had been taken in by charitable people and ranches, glared at the wandering cameraman and got video’d accidentally snapping my face with my respirator mask while I tried to remove it, told vendors that we’d cancelled the homecoming carnival, found out where our middle school math teacher had gotten to, tried but couldn’t find out where the fourth grade teacher who’d returned to her house before the mandatory evacuation was called had gotten to, updated hotel listings, answered eleventy hundred questions from confused, lost people, got my free hugs from two little girls who put out signs that said “FREE HUGS”, petted a whole bunch of dogs, chased down various and sundry people, made a ton of new friends, . . . AND THEN I GOT SENT HOME! Because the superintendent and HR lady don’t want me to “burn out”. The financial lady tattled on me. (Julie: PBLBLBLBLBT!) I’ve said this a couple of times out loud and gotten funny looks. This is a tragedy beyond comprehension. People have died, many more people have lost the best security they had in their lives. And yet, in the middle of it, I have found reaffirmation in people, and I am having the time of my life - helping, problem solving, helping more, comforting, running around, helping some more, and so on. I may seriously have to reconsider my vocation as a teacher, or at least donate a shit load of time to the Red Cross during summer vacations. I signed up for a double shift tomorrow. I will probably bake cookies to take in to the Red Cross workers, who are all super fantastic people. I am praying in the back of my mind (under the bubbling “get this! go here! solve this!” running monologue) that my beloved friends and coworkers have not been completely burned out. It doesn’t look good. The principal, shop teacher, math teacher, middle school coordinator, and special ed teacher are all figuring on having lost their homes. Lake Cuyamaca was wiped from the face of the earth. Several neighborhoods near Julian were burned out with 60% or more damage. Several more had spotty damage, and the fire is STILL THERE. In the meantime, the sky is orange, the sun - if it can be seen at all - is blood red, my respirator helps but not enough, and every human being I have seen in the last three days has been compassionate, loving, and brave. I want it over RIGHT NOW. I don’t want it to end, ever. Why does we require a horror like this to be the best that we can? ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/98 "2003-10-30T06:30:02Z")
Hey, everyone, just checking in, Van Nuys here! I’d have written sooner, but this is the first time I could see my computer screen thru all the smoke! (just kidding) I’m in the center of the San Fernando valley and can see the plumes of smoke all around, but nothing’s burning this way. My boyfriend had to evacuate his place (up in Woolsey canyon) but he’s been allowed back. 'Twas weird having him and his dog in my little studio place for two nights. Too many people, too little space. ---
**Author:** ![yosemite](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/3ab097/32.png) [@yosemite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yosemite)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 8:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/99 "2003-10-30T08:21:30Z")
I’ve been watching the news coverage on KNBC and KTLA (I have a satellite dish) and it is _SO BAD._ I remember the Malibu fires and I thought that was bad. I cannot fathom _this._ Fortunately, all my loved ones back home are safe (so far) but I am definitely keeping tabs on things. My good thoughts and prayers go out to all of you. I check LA Times all the time and KNBC (which has close to wall-to-wall coverage). ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2003, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726/100 "2003-10-30T14:58:16Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Baraqiyal_ > I still don’t understand the logic Johnny. The fires in the San Bernardino mountains are going to be pretty much worst case scenario by the time they’re out. Are you saying that it’s beneficial to have a worst case scenario now to avoid the possibility of one in the future? > > Besides, the situation with the beetle infestation would only get better with time as homeowners were being forced to cut down and haul away dead trees on their property. I’m not sure this is the right thread for discussing fire science in general, but this site from the [USDA Forest Service Northeastern Area](http://www.na.fs.fed.us/spfo/fhm/fhncs/chapter3/forest_fire.htm) says: > [@](#): > > Although fires cost money to control, endanger lives, and damage property, periodic fires have benefits to natural systems: > > Fire bares mineral soil. Such bare mineral soil is needed by some plant species for their seeds to germinate. Also, some types of seeds need to be heated to high temperatures in order to sprout. Fires also release nutrients as they burn and this has a fertilization effect, allowing vigorous plant regrowth. > > Fire impacts succession and helps to maintain the proper habitat conditions for early successional plant species. Grasses, wildflowers, berry plants like blueberries, and tree species like oaks and pines benefit from periodic fires. > > Fire also helps to maintain appropriate habitat for animals associated with the fire-dependent plant species. For example, the endangered Kirtland’s Warbler found in Michigan can only survive in the type of young pine ecosystem that is the result of a major disturbance like fire. Once the trees are about 10- 15 years old, the habitat is no longer usable by the birds and they must find a different recently burned area. > > Most animals can move fairly easily out of an area that is burning and find shelter in the surrounding ecosystems. They often move back into the burned area to feed on the abundant grasses and other plants that spring up soon after a fire. > > Periodic fires are beneficial because they burn up the dead plant material on the forest floor. When fires are prevented and do not occur for long periods of time, the large amounts of fuel accumulated on the forest floor lead to very dangerous conditions. Any fire that accidentally starts will likely be **much larger and hotter than would be the case if only low amounts of fuel were present on the forest floor. Therefore, frequent small fires greatly reduce the possibility of large disastrous fires.** [bolding mine] The problem with the beetles is that people _weren’t_ removing the dead trees. Several months ago (or last year?) I saw a report on the dead and dying trees. The reporter said that Big Bear was a tinderbox just waiting to explode. He said that even though people had been aware of the problem for some time, they were not removing the dead trees, or at least not removing them very quickly, because of the expense. I heard on the news yesterday that it could cost hundreds of dollars to remove a single tree, and landowners couldn’t afford it. (Seems high to me, but I suppose some trees are harder to remove than others.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/b-r-ushfires-socal-dopers-all-ok/209726.md?page=6)