# Babies' Helen Keller Moment **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [May 2, 2022, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826 "2022-05-02T17:36:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/21 "2022-05-03T07:43:35Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > What astounds me is Object Permanence. Up to a certain age, babies don’t realize that things they cannot perceive with their senses (such as a toy hidden by a screen) still exist. Then they do. I find it astounding and fascinating. Even when it comes to themselves. Between the age of two and three I am sure my daughter felt that going to sleep was ceasing to exist because she screamed at the last waking moment every night. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/22 "2022-05-03T07:43:37Z")
I have seen some fascinating programmes on TV about baby development. Lots of experiments with very young children. Sending a crawling baby over a glass bridge - at what point do they realise the potential danger. It’s becoming more common now to teach babies simple signs. They haven’t developed a vocabulary so can’t ask for a drink, but they can make a sign, which works better than just crying. https://www.facebook.com/plugins/video.php?height=400&width=400&href=https://www.facebook.com/bbctwo/videos/the-clear-walkway-experiment-babies/324748978111785/ ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/23 "2022-05-03T19:30:25Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I am sure my daughter felt that going to sleep was ceasing to exist because she screamed at the last waking moment every night. Screaming did not awaken her? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/24 "2022-05-03T20:35:50Z")
For the first several years of her life, my late cat, Vienna, never made eye contact, and didn’t respond to speech. We’d talk to her, and she acted like she was hearing random meaningless sounds. Then one day I said something to her, and I noticed a definite “aha” moment. She looked at me and finally understood that I was _saying something_ to her. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2022, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/25 "2022-05-03T23:07:00Z")
Some people think that teaching sign language to babies is not a good idea, because it supposedly impairs their ability to speak. There is a LOT of evidence to the contrary, due to hearing babies born to deaf parents, or who learn ASL because of other deaf relatives. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/26 "2022-05-04T03:01:23Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > Screaming did not awaken her? No she was at the last point where she couldn’t stay awake any longer. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/27 "2022-05-04T06:41:27Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > I am sure my daughter felt that going to sleep was ceasing to exist because she screamed at the last waking moment every night. [Carson] That is some weird, wild stuff. I did not know that! [/Carson] * * * Seriously though: why do you think her screams indicated she was scared of ceasing existence every night? It could be she was asking for a drink of water or a bedtime story in the only way she knew how. And wouldn’t you think a human child would eventually learn that getting sleepy in fact did _not_ portend their death? You know, after the first 20 or 30 times? Wouldn’t they finally grok that Maureen McGovern was correct and indeed there’s got to be a morning after? ---
**Author:** ![nightshadea](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7ba0ec/32.png) [@nightshadea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nightshadea)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/28 "2022-05-04T07:25:35Z")
this reminds me of when my kitten finally caught that thing following him he went around in a circle and then jumped on it and then nipped it and then jumped with a meow as he realized for the first time that that thing actually belonged to him … he looked with an oh so cute but disgusted face at my mom like " why didn’t you stop/tell me these things, mommy? " ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/29 "2022-05-04T07:55:41Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Seriously though: why do you think her screams indicated she was scared of ceasing existence every night? It could be she was asking for a drink of water or a bedtime story in the only way she knew how. > > And wouldn’t you think a human child would eventually learn that getting sleepy in fact did _not_ portend their death? You know, after the first 20 or 30 times? Wouldn’t they finally grok that Maureen McGovern was correct and indeed there’s got to be a morning after? She never screamed like that during any other time. It was primal. She did eventually learn that it was just sleep, but there was a period when I believe she felt she was surrendering to the end. Just my feeling though. ---
**Author:** ![ekedolphin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ekedolphin/32/10003_2.png) [@ekedolphin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ekedolphin)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2022, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/30 "2022-05-04T18:59:11Z")
Obligatory _Star Trek_ clip here. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/OtfNZyAPQLo/maxresdefault.jpg "You Get Used To It") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtfNZyAPQLo) ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/31 "2022-05-05T01:17:33Z")
Yeah, no aha moment for language but an ongoing process. Some interesting little tidbits … Baby speech sounds development first is focused on creating as wide of a variety of sounds as possible. Generally by nine months babies are making most sounds of all languages spoken on this planet. After that that they start to _prune_ away sounds (and for that matter synapses involved in both the production and perception) that are not heard in the language around them. Preverbal toddlers have private language that their caregivers do not understand. In one experiment a group of preverbal toddlers were introduced to toys they were unfamiliar with and recorded as they gibbered away playing with them. Days later they were put back in with the same toys again, and the same kids made the same “nonsense” sounds playing with the same toys again. The gibberish meant specific things to them. On object permanence - it is typically between 6 to 9 months and can be thought of as having the ability to imagine something in the mind when it is no longer actually there. The major day to day ways it manifests are separation anxiety (now that baby can call up your face without you there they can miss you not actually being there); peek-a-boo (testing out that indeed you are still there, you ARE! COOL!); and stranger awareness (“I’m thinking of every face I know and buddy, you aint one of them.”) And the [mirror test](https://thoughtfulparent.com/child-psychology-classics-mirror-test.html) is a classic of child psychology. Most kids pass it around 20 to 24 months. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/32 "2022-05-07T15:23:01Z")
Both as a parent and now as a teacher, it’s interesting to see children get little ah ha moments where they suddenly “get” something they hadn’t understood before. OTOH, one big difference between Helen Keller and normal children is that most children are often aware of things before they can do it themselves. For example, parents read children stories and while they can’t read themselves yet, they are aware that there is this reading thing where those funny things are words with meaning. Kids will pretend to read themselves before they can actually do it. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/33 "2022-05-07T15:53:19Z")
When my brother’s children were little, they would give me a book to read to them. They don’t seem to be paying attention so I tried going off script (telling some story other than what was in front of me) and wow they noticed immediately. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/34 "2022-05-07T16:27:38Z")
Humans are pattern monkeys, we remember patterns. It seems to play an important part in memory, knowing what flows from what. This is why, for example, prompting an actor with the first few words will help them remember their lines; why there are people who famously could recite the Bible or Quran from memory. The books from Greek history like the Iliad and Odyssey were famously recited by bards from memory for centuries before they were written down. So kids will have memorized the stories they hear over and over. They may not be able to recite them from memory, but they have already learned well enough that they can tell when something is not the same. And… as anyone who has been around young children for any length of time will have noticed, they love the repetition aspect of some activities… ---
**Author:** ![3AxisCtrl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/3/ecd19e/32.png) [@3AxisCtrl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/3AxisCtrl)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/35 "2022-05-07T19:50:55Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > … they would give me a book to read to them. They don’t seem to be paying attention so I tried going off script (telling some story other than what was in front of me) and wow they noticed immediately. A feature of young children that often fools adults is that they take a while to learn the convention that when you’re paying attention to a speaker you’re expected to give frequent feedback (glances / nods / etc.) indicating this. When they seem to direct their attention elsewhere, the adult is fooled into believing they aren’t listening. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2022, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826/36 "2022-05-07T21:20:42Z")
As I remember, the baby on my lap was looking around the room, apparently not paying attention to the book I was reading from. But as soon as I went off script, their head whipped round and they looked right at me. It was hilarious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babies-helen-keller-moment/963826.md?page=1)