# Baby, baby, it's a wild world! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 22, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435 "2004-09-22T03:08:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/1 "2004-09-22T03:08:44Z")
News report on our local CBS affiliate reports that Yusuf Islam, formerly known as Cat Stevens, was arrested when he attempted to enter the U.S., on suspicion of being affiliated with a terrorist group. My reaction is WTF? If there was one Muslim I would have figured for definitely moderate and pacifistic, it would have been him. What do they figure, he’s going to blow up the Peace Train? My assumption up until recently is that there’s evidence we don’t know about, attitudes that haven’t been made public. But this ranks high on weird news stories of the year! ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/2 "2004-09-22T03:33:08Z")
It’s hard to get by just upon a smile Too many variables, so much we don’t see. Still, based on his interviews from when he changed his name and all that, I would’ve figured him for a pacifist regardless of his religious choices. Shocks me, to, man. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/3 "2004-09-22T03:52:08Z")
IIRC There was a time when he supported Hamas quite loudly and publicly. He also joined Khomeni in calling for the death of Rushdie. He has since recanted both positions. ---
**Author:** ![Celyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9dc877/32.png) [@Celyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Celyn)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/4 "2004-09-22T04:25:38Z")
Ah, as soon as I saw the thread title, I admit I was muttering to myself, …hmmmm. well he DID support the “fatwa” on Salman Rushdie, which disgusted me. I hadn’t realised that he changed his mind about that. Good. I should not have _thought_ he’d be a violently-minded sort, but I have not read the actual news item yet. ---
**Author:** ![Siege](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Siege](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siege)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/5 "2004-09-22T11:14:02Z")
_Good Morning America_’s got someone on saying he donated “thousands of dollars” to Hamas, so he may not be an advocate of the more peaceful forms of Islam, although the same person is also saying Yusuf Islam has said he never knowingly donated to terrorist organizations. 😕 I feel sorry for the other people on the plane. Apparently they weren’t told that their flight to Washington, D.C. was being diverted until they got off the plane and found themselves in Bangor, Maine! Now, I’ve never been to the airport in Bangor, but I have been to the one in Portland, Maine, and I assume the one in Bangor must be even smaller, although I can’t see how! CJ ---
**Author:** ![Oy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bc8723/32.png) [@Oy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/6 "2004-09-22T11:43:42Z")
If I recall, what he said about the Salman Rushdie affair was that the fatwa was correct under Islamic law. This isn’t quite the same as saying he supported it. Does anyone else remember, or am I losing my mind? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 12:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/7 "2004-09-22T12:07:02Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > If I recall, what he said about the Salman Rushdie affair was that the fatwa was correct under Islamic law. This isn’t quite the same as saying he supported it. Does anyone else remember, or am I losing my mind? Not to make this a huge debate (it is MPSIMS, afterall), but there’s not a lot of difference between saying, “I support the fatwa” and “the fatwa is correct under Islamic law, and I support Islamic law.” ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/8 "2004-09-22T12:24:37Z")
> [@Eonwe](#): > > Not to make this a huge debate (it is MPSIMS, afterall), but there’s not a lot of difference between saying, “I support the fatwa” and “the fatwa is correct under Islamic law, and I support Islamic law.” Why not? “It’s technically correct, although I don’t agree with it.” ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/9 "2004-09-22T14:06:59Z")
> [@Oy!](#): > > If I recall, what he said about the Salman Rushdie affair was that the fatwa was correct under Islamic law. This isn’t quite the same as saying he supported it. Does anyone else remember, or am I losing my mind? His comments, while dodgy IMO, were heavily misrepresented by the UK press. I’ve already posted this in another thread on the subject, but Cat Stevens’s website presents his [current position](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=277013) on it. (On preview: the website appears to be being overwhelmed at the moment so I’ve had to link to the thread.) ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/10 "2004-09-22T14:27:50Z")
I saw him interveiwed about it. He was asked straight out if he thought Rusdie deserved death for his book and Cat wouldn’t give a straight answer. A non-citizen who makes anti-American comments and implicitly supports people who want to terroize the US does not deserve to be a guest here. Haj ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/11 "2004-09-22T14:30:20Z")
What does Rushdie have to do with America? ---
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/12 "2004-09-22T20:29:36Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > Why not? “It’s technically correct, although I don’t agree with it.” I don’t know, and honestly, I don’t know if I 100% even agree with my own statement. It just rings kind of similar to: “I think segregation of schools is wrong, but I support George Wallace,” or, “the war in Iraq is wrong, but I don’t think the current administration has done anything wrong,” or, (and sorry for violating so many rules here), “exterminating all those people in the gas chambers was wrong, but I’m all for Hitler.” (I am _not_ trying to make any sort of accurate comparison between Bush/Wallace/Hitler/Yusuf, it’s just that the idea of actively supporting and promoting an institution which is doing things you feel is wrong seems very disingenuous). ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/13 "2004-09-22T21:12:28Z")
“Everyone jump upon the peace plane. Ooooo waaaa eeee aaaa. Come on now peace plane” I think it’d be interesting to see the full list of people banned from flying here (with a ‘why’ too). Is that “public domain”? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/14 "2004-09-22T21:15:28Z")
From [Wikipedia’s entry on Salman Rushdie](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salman_Rushdie): > [@](#): > > Even popular musician Yusuf Islam (aka Cat Stevens) indirectly yet infamously stated his agreement with the fatwa. Later he clarified his statements: > > “…that is not to say I am encouraging people to break the law or take it into their own hands: far from it. Under the Islamic Law, Muslims are bound to keep within the limits of the law of the country in which they live.” > > But later in 1989, Yusuf Islam said in a British television documentary that he wasn’t against the death sentence in principle: Rather than go to a demonstration where Rushdie would be burned in effigy, “I would have hoped that it’d be the real thing” he said. If Rushdie showed up at his door, he said he “might ring somebody who might do more damage to him than he would like… I’d try to phone the Ayatollah Khomeini and tell him exactly where this man is.” The New York Times reported that he stood by his statements in a subsequent interview. So his stance is basically, “If it were legal, I would support killing Salman Rushdie for writing a book.” I don’t know if this is sufficient legal grounds for keeping him out of the country, but it’s more than enough to make me not care very much if he is. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/15 "2004-09-22T21:41:02Z")
Rushdie, by the interpretation of some Muslims, didn’t just “write a book”, he wrote a book that was blasphemy. Throughout time, any number of cultures/religions have included blasphemy as a capital offense. Under Islamic law, as interpreted by the Ayatollah Khomeini, blasphemy is a capital crime, and therefore, Rushdie could be killed by any faithful Muslim without blame (actually, I guess the person who killed a blasphemer would be rewarded). If Rushdie had murdered a cop in cold blood, under US law, he could be killed, albeit only by the government. There is little difference, he’s dead either way. The majority of Americans (supposedly) believe in capital punishment, although blasphemy is not among the crimes usually eligible for this particular punishment. Perhaps if the fundamentlist Christians gain addition political power, and a Supreme Court Justice or two, it will become a crime. Maybe they will even bring back public hangings–right after church on Sundays. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2004, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/16 "2004-09-22T22:38:44Z")
> [@Kallessa](#): > > Rushdie, by the interpretation of some Muslims, didn’t just “write a book”, he wrote a book that was blasphemy. Throughout time, any number of cultures/religions have included blasphemy as a capital offense. Under Islamic law, as interpreted by the Ayatollah Khomeini, blasphemy is a capital crime, and therefore, Rushdie could be killed by any faithful Muslim without blame (actually, I guess the person who killed a blasphemer would be rewarded). If Rushdie had murdered a cop in cold blood, under US law, he could be killed, albeit only by the government. There is little difference, he’s dead either way. I, for one, see a mighty big difference between creating a work of fiction and murdering an officer of the peace, but YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Kallessa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/7993a0/32.png) [@Kallessa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kallessa)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/17 "2004-09-23T02:23:19Z")
Of course you do, because in your (our) culture blasphemy is not a big deal. For Islamic fundamentalists, it is a big deal. An insult to God is the worst thing you can do–worse than murder, worse than kidnapping, worse than theft. For this mindset, capital punishment for Rushdie makes sense, just as for you, capital punishment for killing a peace officer makes sense. Different values, different results. You both think the other’s values are wrong, but you both sanction killing, just under different circumstances. **hajario** , when did Yusuf Islam make an anti-American statement or indicate that he supported people who want to terrorize our country? His statements about Rushdie (a British subject) were made two decades ago, and the _fatwa_ was put on Rushdie by an Iranian Ayatollah. 20 years ago, the US had not been visited by terrorists and has never been harmed (on our soil) by Iranian terrorists, so even Yusuf’s support of the Ayatollah (if he did so) does not show support for those who would use terror against us. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-baby-its-a-wild-world/265435/18 "2004-09-23T02:49:50Z")
> [@Kallessa](#): > > Of course you do, because in your (our) culture blasphemy is not a big deal. For Islamic fundamentalists, it is a big deal. An insult to God is the worst thing you can do–worse than murder, worse than kidnapping, worse than theft. For this mindset, capital punishment for Rushdie makes sense, just as for you, capital punishment for killing a peace officer makes sense. Different values, different results. You both think the other’s values are wrong, but you both sanction killing, just under different circumstances. First, I don’t sanction killing anyone. Second, Yusuf Islam was born in fucking _London_, so don’t give me that cultural relativism crap. Thirdly, Muslims are born with exactly the same critical and moral faculties as everyone else, and the vast majority of them are able to recognize the inherent value of human life, so I’m not inclined to give a pass to the thugs and psychopaths who make up the lunatic fringe of their culture. Much, may I add, as I refuse to cut any slack to the lunatics and assholes on the farther edges of _our_ culture, like Stephen “Yusuf Islam” Georgieu.