# Baby boomers: Was it 'Smokey THE Bear' or 'Smokey Bear'?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [January 9, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078 "2001-01-09T00:08:23Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/1 "2001-01-09T00:08:23Z")
I’d always thought it was Smokey The Bear when I was young, and that’s how I’d always heard others say it. Then, when I was in about the fifth grade (1968), we had one of those fire prevention talks, and the speaker mentioned that it was supposed to be just ‘Smokey Bear’. And that’s how I’ve always seen it in print since then, though it never sounded right to my ears. And to the extent that I ever hear any one mention the critter in casual conversation, everyone still seems to call him Smokey The Bear.
And in fact, my antique World Book from 1960 (that guide and prop of grade-school essays), says that it’s Smokey The Bear.
So why did they change it?
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/2 "2001-01-09T00:17:22Z")
I’ve always heard it as Smokey THE Bear until just a few years ago. Hearing the name w/o the THE is like fingnails on a chalkboard to me.
---
### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/3 "2001-01-09T00:44:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Mr. Blue Sky \*
> \*\*I’ve always heard it as Smokey THE Bear until just a few years ago. Hearing the name w/o the THE is like fingnails on a chalkboard to me. \*\*
Couldn’t have said it better myself. Ditto ‘Ukraine’, ‘Congo’, etc.
---
### Author:  [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/4 "2001-01-09T01:44:19Z")
Sorry, men. It’s Smokey Bear. No matter what you OR Gary Snyder say.
> **[Home | Smokey Bear](https://www.smokeybear.com/)**
>
> \#OnlyYou can prevent wildfires. Visit SmokeyBear.com for wildfire prevention tips.
---
### Author:  [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/5 "2001-01-09T01:48:51Z")
Sorry, that was a little TOO obscure, even for me.
Gary Snyder is the beatnik nature poet, the inspiration for the protagonist in Jack Kerouac’s THE DHARMA BUMS.
Here’s a link to his poem, “Smokey the Bear Sutra,” possibly the coolest thing ever written.
[http://www.marigold.com/rt88/bear.html](http://www.marigold.com/rt88/bear.html)
---
### Author:  [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/6 "2001-01-09T02:09:13Z")
Well, certainly a Google search indicates that his name was Smokey Bear, but I doubt that one boomer in several hundred thousand would say the name omitting “the.”
Interestingly, [this site](http://www.odf.state.or.us/smokey/bearfaq2.htm) from the Oregon Department of Forestry (Adapted from USDA Forest Service Publication FS-551), debunks the “Smokey was injured as a cub in a fire” story still being promulgated by the “official” site that Uke found.
---
### Author:  [@Mr.Blonde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blonde)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/7 "2001-01-09T02:57:44Z")
I always thought it was “Smokey and the Bandit”
---
### Author:  [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/8 "2001-01-09T03:03:17Z")
And who can forget the song(done from memory)
Smokey _the_ Bear,
Smokey _the_ Bear,
Prowlin’ and a growlin’
and a sniffin’ the air.
He can smell a fire,
before it starts to flame,
that’s why they call him Smokey,
that was how he got his name.
**That’s** why I always thought his name was Smokey _the_ Bear.
---
### Author:  [@Doug\_Bowe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doug_Bowe)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/9 "2001-01-09T06:24:11Z")
It WAS “Smokey the Bear.”
Baby boomer joke:
_Q. What’s Smokey the Bear’s middle name?
A. The_
The “the” was dropped several year ago in a “makeover” and advertising maven Dick Orkin (remember Chickenman?) was hired to do a few spots the emphasize the disappearance of the “the.”
---
### Author:  [@Whammo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whammo)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/10 "2001-01-09T06:30:20Z")
28… closing in on 29 soon… tail end of baby boomer??? Way early on the Gen X??? Anyway… whatever mutt I am its DEFINATLY Smokey **THE** Bear!!
---
### Author:  [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/11 "2001-01-09T14:00:42Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Doug Bowe \*
> \*\*It WAS “Smokey the Bear.”
>
> Baby boomer joke:
> _Q. What’s Smokey the Bear’s middle name?
> A. The_
>
> The “the” was dropped several year ago in a “makeover” and advertising maven Dick Orkin (remember Chickenman?) was hired to do a few spots the emphasize the disappearance of the “the.” \*\*
It was a bit more than “a few years” ago, as I indicated in my original post.
Now it’s becoming a cultural icon discussion. Can any younger Dopers tell us if ‘Smokey Bear’ sounds more natural to them?
---
### Author:  [@Rhythmdvl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhythmdvl)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/12 "2001-01-09T15:06:17Z")
Smokey Bear! Smokey Bear! Just like it is **not** Super the Man, it is _ **NOT** _ Smokey _the_ Bear! I’m sorry if it grates on your nerves, but imagine how much it must hurt poor Smokey’s ears to hear his name garbled. I know there was a song out there popularizing the ‘the’, but that has nothing to do with his _real_ name. It was and always will be, simply, Smokey Bear.
From [http://www.odf.state.or.us/Smokey/bearfaq.htm](http://www.odf.state.or.us/Smokey/bearfaq.htm)
> [@](#):
>
> **Is Smokey Bear’s Name “Smokey Bear” or “Smokey the Bear”?**
>
> Smokey Bear. No “the.” This is confusing because the song is titled “Smokey the Bear.” There is no good explanation for this other than “Smokey the Bear” fits better with the tune than “Smokey Bear.” Use Smokey Bear when you’re referring to the bear. Use “Smokey the Bear” when you’re talking about the bear’s song.
And from the same site…
> [@](#):
>
> **Is Smokey Bear’s Image Copyright Protected?**
> On May 23, 1952, the Smokey Bear Act (Public Law 359) was passed to protect Smokey from exploitation. This law give the Secretary of Agriculture, in conjunction with the National Association of State Foresters and the Advertising Council, Inc., the authority to grant permission for the use of Smokey’s image. But such license was generally only granted to companies who manufactured Smokey products for public wildland fire prevention agencies.
Note the way his name is written in the title of the law. FirstLaw and [Access.gov](http://Access.gov) don’t go back to the fifties, so I didn’t find the actual text of the law, but at [http://www.fs.fed.us/people/employ/tep/2000\_temp\_va\_100799.txt](http://www.fs.fed.us/people/employ/tep/2000_temp_va_100799.txt) there is a listing of Federal jobs - scroll down the list and you’ll see two listings (see any extraneous 'the’s?):
> [@](#):
>
> 121 (Smokey Bear Ranger District, Ruidoso, NM (505) 257-4095
> 122 Smokey Bear Ranger District, Capitan, NM (505) 257-4095
It is not Homer _the_ Simpson, not Monty _the_ Python, not Darth _the_ Vader… it is **not** Smokey _the_ Bear.
Smokey Bear!
Smokey Bear!
Smokey Bear!
Smokey Bear!
Smokey Bear!
Smokey Bear!
[sub]this overreaction brought to you by way too much caffeine. [/sub]
---
### Author:  [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/13 "2001-01-09T15:30:39Z")
Hey, my friend has a snake named “Monty the Python”!
---
### Author:  [@Ukulele\_Ike](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ukulele_Ike)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/14 "2001-01-09T15:37:03Z")
Thanks for posting that link, **Rhythmdvl** …that was the one I was looking for when I got sidetracked by the wussy “official” one I ended up posting.
Check out Woodland Enterprises, folks! My 1999 calendar was a totally copasetic parade of magnificent Smokey images! \*Drown your butts…crush your butts…drown your butts…crush your butts…
---
### Author:  [@ChuckSki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChuckSki)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/15 "2001-01-09T16:04:46Z")
I’m not hard over one way or the other, but here are two references for kicks. The first is c. 1955 (“The”) and the second is about 1972 (sans “The”).
[http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=536081625](http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=536081625)
[http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1401657986](http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1401657986)
By the way (just to be irksome)…
Jabba THE Hut
Mott THE Hoople
Winnie THE Pooh
Jimmie THE Greek
Jack THE Ripper
Bill THE Cat
Henry THE VIII
John THE Baptist
Oscar THE Grouch
Peter THE Great
Sam THE Sham
And many more, I’m sure.
Chuck Lanczkowski
St. Louis
---
### Author:  [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/16 "2001-01-09T16:12:37Z")
Toad the Wet Sprocket.
(WTF was that name about, anyway?)
---
### Author:  [@troub](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/troub)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/17 "2001-01-09T16:15:30Z")
I’m 20, and as a kid I always heard and said Smokey the Bear. After the controversy became a cultural discussion, as mentioned above by javaman, I took on the belief that the bear’s actual name was Smokey Bear, and that any references to _the_ bear meant “Smokey the bear.” Note the lack of capitalization on bear. Bear, in this usage, is a description of what he is, not who he is.
Name: Smokey Bear
Common Description: Smokey the bear
Just my opinion. I hope others my find solace and resolution thinking of it this way.
---
### Author:  [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/18 "2001-01-09T16:20:45Z")
Sure, that’s what the Dept of Forestry WANTS you to believe. This website, [Smokey **THE** Bear](http://www.smokey-only.com/default1.htm), contains a huge array of collectibles going back to the 1950’s (maybe earlier)–many of which show Smokey _the_ Bear. Of course, other items do simply read “Smokey Bear,” but…um…that’s beside the point.
Regarding…
> [@](#):
>
> It is not Homer the Simpson, not Monty the Python, not Darth the Vader… it is not Smokey the Bear.
So…what makes you so positive that “Bear” is his last name? (Just because a government _agency_ tells you so.;)) He could have been Smokey Smith, the Bear. Maybe he got tired of clarifying that his name was not “Bear,” he was a bear (or according to the cover of a 1955 comic he was “Smokey, the Fire Prevention Bear”). Maybe he got fed up so he just changed his last name to Bear to be done with it (or maybe its a government PLOT \. It may not be “Homer the Simpson” but you wouldn’t call him Homer Idiot either. It would be “Homer Simpson, the Idiot.”
Just having a little fun and offering my 2-cents on the OP and an explanation of why so many of us **REMEMBER** him as Smokey _The_ Bear (even though I’m later–that is, younger–than the babyboomers).
Cheers!
---
### Author:  [@Peta\_Tzunami](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peta_Tzunami)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/19 "2001-01-09T16:24:38Z")
These [comic books](http://www.smokey-only.com/USDAComic.htm) show just when the Forestry Service changed their “story.”
---
### Author:  [@dantheman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dantheman)
#### Post date: [January 9, 2001, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078/20 "2001-01-09T16:31:13Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Rhythmdvl \*
> **Smokey Bear! Smokey Bear! Just like it is not Super the Man, it is _NOT_ Smokey _the_ Bear! I’m sorry if it grates on your nerves, but imagine how much it must hurt poor Smokey’s ears to hear his name garbled. I know there was a song out there popularizing the ‘the’, but that has nothing to do with his _real_ name. It was and always will be, simply, Smokey Bear.**
Your analogy’s not quite accurate, **Rhythmdvl**. It’s not Super the Man because the first word describes the second - he’s a man who is super. But we’re not discussing a bear who is smokey, are we? Do you see smoke coming out of his ears? Course not. 🙂 He is (or was, at least) called Smokey the Bear because his name was Smokey… and he’s a bear! Simple as that.
Same with your other examples, too. I think we can all agree he was originally called Smokey the Bear, until a smartass marketeer decided the ‘the’ was superfluous. 🆒
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-boomers-was-it-smokey-the-bear-or-smokey-bear/49078.md?page=2)