# Baby born alive at abortion clinic. Does the staff have an obligation to save it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 29, 2005, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715 "2005-04-29T15:11:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/41 "2005-04-30T21:30:26Z")
**Martin** , viability is certainly one factor, especially when the abortion is done for health reasons, but I also don’t see viability as being especially indicative of consciousness, nor the lack of viability indicative of a lack of cruelty when the being is terminated. However, because I do not know where to draw this line – I mean, certainly your average adult large mammal has a better-developed consciousness and thus more right to live as your average fetus – I do not take a firm position on what the national policy should be. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/42 "2005-04-30T21:39:39Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Cool. You can still abort the kid until he’s a year old! South Park jokes aside, that was a misprint, 27 weeks is what was intended. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/43 "2005-04-30T21:47:56Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > They might believe an intact fetus alive, outside of the womb, is a baby, but in fact not everyone agrees that all measures should be taken to save it. > > In fact, there have been court cases fought where parents who gave birth to premature infants wanted to withold medical treatment and sued the hospital for not complying with their wishes. These weren’t parents who wanted to abort; these were parents whose children were born early due to pre-term labor. I guess these cases were filed before the 2002 law, when there was still ambiguity about a parents’ right to withold treatment from a premature infant. I meant that all measures which the parents wanted to take should be taken, not that extraordinary measures should be taken without their consent in some Schiavo type situation. Coulda been clearer though. And yeah, the baby probably wouldn’t have survived anyway, even with NICU treatment. Although aren’t there some babies born as early as twenty weeks who have survived (obviously, with better treatment)? I could have sworn I read something like that. Still, the chances of it surviving even with treatment are one in a million. But yeah, the dividing line between life and not-life is generally held to be birth since abortion laws are all about the right of the woman to decide what happens in her body. Once it’s out, the fetus/baby is no longer under her jurisdiction, it’s a physically independent entity, no matter how many weeks old it is. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/44 "2005-04-30T21:51:26Z")
[The baby was stillborn](http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/orl-locabortion30043005apr30,1,7484889.story?ctrack=1&cset=true). I think this supports my theory that this woman regretted her decision once she saw the baby, and now the rabid pro-lifers have jumped in with both feet. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/45 "2005-04-30T22:00:55Z")
> [@Martin Hyde](#): > > I find it interesting how vehemently people are rejecting the possibility of this. It’s obvious why, but it is interesting. On extremely liberal boards like this people hold things like abortion up as a holy grail. Any possible tainting of said holy grail is met with extremely fanatical and passionate dismissal. I think many posters here are just good at smelling a set-up. We’re not talking about a story that sounded unlikely, this sounds borderline ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/46 "2005-05-01T00:38:08Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I do not know whether Florida has a registry of MDs available to the public on the internet. The Florida Department of Health has an [online registry](https://ww2.doh.state.fl.us/IRM00PRAES/PRASLIST.ASP) of licensed health practicioners. Zvi Harry Perper, M.D., is based in Orlando, Florida, and has staff privileges at: 1. [Lawnwood Regional Medical Center](http://www.lawnwoodmed.com/), Ft. Pierce 2. [Holy Cross Hospital](http://www.holy-cross.com/), Ft. Lauderdale 3. [Glades General Hospital](http://www.gladesgeneralhospital.com/), Belle Glade. His residency 1990-1993 was in OB-GYN. ---
**Author:** ![Walloon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/fbc32d/32.png) [@Walloon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walloon)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/47 "2005-05-01T00:40:09Z")
I am surprised that an abortion provider would have staff privileges at a Catholic hospital. That’s usually grounds for dismissal. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/48 "2005-05-01T03:05:12Z")
I was wondering why the blanket was wet when she was the first one there in the morning. The language that was used to describe the situation was very loaded. It seemed obvious to me that the person giving the description had an agenda beyond describing her grief and frustration. > [@](#): > > **Martin Hyde** : Martin Hyde: Women don’t have a right to abort fetuses because they don’t want to be saddled with the responsibility of a child, they have the right to abort because the fetus cannot exist outside of her and she has certain right’s inside her body. Those rights however are “no longer compelling” when the two parties can be separated without anyone dying. I think I understand your point that the woman’s rights pertain to the her own body. That does not negate her right to abort the fetus, within certain time limits, for the very reason you stated – she doesn’t want the responsibility. She doesn’t even have to state a reason. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2005, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715/49 "2005-05-01T05:37:25Z")
You know, I’m wondering if she somehow learned that her baby wasn’t going to survive to term, and somehow contrived to have it “aborted” so she could make up this big scene. I wouldn’t put it past some of these nutbar extreme anti-choicers. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-alive-at-abortion-clinic-does-the-staff-have-an-obligation-to-save-it/301715.md?page=2)