# Baby born with blood alcohol content of .21 **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 15, 2005, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736 "2005-07-15T23:53:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 18\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/21 "2005-07-18T00:16:58Z")
They used to give [this pamphlet](http://www.alittlepregnant.com/photos/1978/frontcover.html) to women in the 1970s at doctor’s offices. Have a smoke and a cocktail! Times have changed indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/22 "2005-07-18T01:36:39Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > They used to give [this pamphlet](http://www.alittlepregnant.com/photos/1978/frontcover.html) to women in the 1970s at doctor’s offices. Have a smoke and a cocktail! That’s hardly what it says, **Cyros**. For smoking, it advised that certainly anyone smoking more than 10 cigarettes a day should cut back, and that one’s physician should advise the patient on the subject. As for drinking, it emphasizes that moderation is the byword, but an “occasional” cocktail is harmless. Once again, physician consultation is recommended. It’s hardly an endorsement of either tobacco or ethanol, and it did reflect the beliefs and practices of the time. ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/23 "2005-07-18T01:54:03Z")
_My_ comment was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek, **Qadgop**. _Sigh_ I posted it to show that indeed beliefs and practices have changed. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/24 "2005-07-18T02:07:17Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > _My_ comment was intended to be a bit tongue in cheek, **Qadgop**. _Sigh_ > > I posted it to show that indeed beliefs and practices have changed. Well, you should have taken into account the fact that I’m a humorless SOB who’s ruthlessly devoted to rooting out imperfection in all of it’s manifestations _no matter the cost in human misery or bruxism_\*. \*(I thought about adding a winking smiley here but considered it too great a deviation from my _purpose_.) ---
**Author:** ![Cyros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a698b9/32.png) [@Cyros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyros)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/25 "2005-07-18T02:11:34Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > \*(I thought about adding a winking smiley here but considered it too great a deviation from my _purpose_.) I should have used one in my post but I have an irrational fear of emoticons. ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/26 "2005-07-18T02:39:54Z")
> [@Ernest Hemmingway](#): > > “Don’t we have a fine time?” Catherine said. “Look. Let’s go some place and have beer instead of tea. It’s very good for young Catherine. It keeps her small.” > “Young Catherine,” I said. “That loafer.” > “She’s been very good,” Catherine said. “She makes very little trouble. The doctor says beer will be good for me and keep her small.” > “If you keep her small enough and she is a boy, maybe he will be a jockey.” … ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/27 "2005-07-18T02:41:56Z")
AARRRRGGGGH!! I misspelled his name! So much for trying to look literate. ---
**Author:** ![Ashes\_Ashes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/db5fbb/32.png) [@Ashes\_Ashes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ashes_Ashes)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/28 "2005-07-18T02:53:41Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I’m amazed at how many of my patients (inmates) overtly look like fetal alcohol syndrome kids. Now that you mention it, it makes sense to me. In the community where I currently teach there don’t seem to be a lot of cases of FAS. When we do have a student with FAS they’re more often in the county program for the severely disabled, but I’ve taught a small handful of FAS kids. I’m no expert though I’ve read up on FAS to familiarize myself with what I can do for them in the mainstream classroom. Even then it wasn’t easy and I was pathetically grateful for the aides they assigned. What broke my heart was how these kids _knew_ they were a handful and tried to behave, learn, and fit in, and they just couldn’t for very long periods of time, even with an aide working with them one on one. Once they’re out of the school system I can see how easily they could eventually end up in our penal system. \*\*Antigen’s \*\* post reminds me of a book I read ages ago about a world where the drinking water was treated with some sort of birth control, sort of the way we put fluoride in the water now. When you wanted to start a family you applied for a prescription for the antidote. Sometimes I’m very tempted to approve of such ideas. ---
**Author:** ![ivylass](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/9de053/32.png) [@ivylass](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivylass)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/29 "2005-07-18T12:18:44Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > So scoff if you will, **ivylass**. But more kids are living past the age of 5 mainly because of things like immunizations, better hygiene, removing of toxins from the environment, better access to medical care, etc. And fewer kids are having to live crippled by those diseases too. I wasn’t scoffing. I was amazed that with the lack of car seats, pregnant mothers encouraged to smoke and drink, etc, the lack of immunizations, that we managed to make it to the 21st century. > [@](#): > > Well, you should have taken into account the fact that I’m a humorless SOB who’s ruthlessly devoted to rooting out imperfection in all of **it’s** manifestations no matter the cost in human misery or bruxism\*. Gaudere Alert, Gaudere Alert! 😉 Seriously, **Qadgop** , as always, I appreciate your insight. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/30 "2005-07-18T16:59:26Z")
Is it illegal to drink while pregnant? Is it common to arrest a woman for child abuse before the child is born? Or is the fact that she actually gave birth the difference here? (I noticed the charges include the time span of “6 to 9 months” which would include activities done before birth, maybe even before she knew she was pregnant. I realize the can of worms I may be opening here, I was just unaware that you could actually be charged with child abuse for drinking while pregnant. How far along do you have to be? Is this true of other things a woman may do that could put the baby at risk? Please note: I think what this woman did is horrible and I am in no way, shape, or form advocating drinking while pregnant. I am not trying to defend this woman, but I was unaware that what she did is illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/31 "2005-07-18T17:06:07Z")
**Velma** IIRC, they have arrested women for giving birth to drunken/stoned babies before. Didn’t they also charge a woman for doing drugs while she was breastfeeding not that long ago? I don’t know how that case turned out though. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/32 "2005-07-18T17:16:31Z")
So is the deciding factor that the baby was born under the influence? Has a woman ever been charged with child abuse just for drinking while pregnant? I can understand illegal drug charges a little more, since they have proof she was using illegal drugs, but drinking in and of itself is not illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/33 "2005-07-18T17:19:18Z")
I think the determining factor is if they have demonstrable proof (FAS) that the woman disregarded the health of the baby she was carrying, or nursing in at least one case. ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/34 "2005-07-18T17:22:09Z")
Adding, maybe **QTM** can explain just how much abundance of alcohol that woman had to take in for so much to pass through the placenta and into the baby. That baby had enough alcohol in it’s blood stream to make a grown up staggering drunk if I’m not mistaken. This case certainly wasn’t a casual glass of wine before birth. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/35 "2005-07-18T17:39:35Z")
Right, I know it is a flagrant example. I just wondered if there was a line drawn somewhere with specific criteria or if it’s a case of ‘we know it when we see it.’ ---
**Author:** ![Zabali\_Clawbane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/ecd19e/32.png) [@Zabali\_Clawbane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zabali_Clawbane)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/36 "2005-07-18T17:43:17Z")
That I’m not sure on myself. Given how rarely such cases make the news, I’d think that there are specific criteria, and not so much “we know it when we see it”. I’d think that attitude would lead to more arrests, which would make the news. Maybe it varies from region to region too? ---
**Author:** ![Sarah\_Woodruff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df788c/32.png) [@Sarah\_Woodruff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarah_Woodruff)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/37 "2005-07-22T09:48:46Z")
> [@Cyros](#): > > They used to give [this pamphlet](http://www.alittlepregnant.com/photos/1978/frontcover.html) to women in the 1970s at doctor’s offices. Have a smoke and a cocktail! > > Times have changed indeed. My mother has an early Seventies edition of _Everywoman_. It does say something to the effect that “an occasional glass of wine with dinner is harmless and relaxing…” but by the time that my mother fell pregnant with me in 1980, her doc told her to steer clear of alcohol. And the book warns you off ciggies altogether. So obstetrical attitudes seemed to have changed quite rapidly. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2005, 10:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736/38 "2005-07-22T10:06:02Z")
Truly sad. [More on FAS.](http://www.come-over.to/FAS/) It seems FAS not only damages the baby’s appearance, but also it’s health and mental capacities, though not so much its character. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-born-with-blood-alcohol-content-of-21/312736.md?page=1)