# Baby falling through window **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816 "2019-07-10T02:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![StraightTalk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/straighttalk/32/9982_2.png) [@StraightTalk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StraightTalk)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/41 "2019-07-11T20:23:23Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Was this ship accident by day or night? 4:30 pm I believe. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2019, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/42 "2019-07-11T20:52:00Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > I think he knew damn well that there was no glass there. He thought he could hold onto the kid and didn’t. > > I don’t think it is intentional, but them putting their mental effort into finding fault with the cruise ship diminishes their sense of the grandfather’s responsibility. It is much easier on him to blame them rather than blame himself. He said he was putting her up there to pound on the glass like at a hockey game. I’m inclined to believe him, especially if passengers reported him saying that right after the fall. You are right that they are all putting a lot of mental effort into blaming the cruise line. Emotionally, that’s a much better coping strategy than accepting the blame and dealing with the fact that grandpa can never make up for his mistake. His daughter and son-in-law might be better able to forgive him if they believe that the cruise line is responsible. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/43 "2019-07-12T17:20:03Z")
Looking at the windows at 00:59 of this video ( [Grandfather who dropped toddler from cruise ship could face charges - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kt3NfVm3f6Y) ), it appears that these windows are slanted/tilted, too. They aren’t typical windows which stand up straight at a 90-degree upright position; they are canted outwards. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/44 "2019-07-12T17:38:47Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > Didn’t he do it repeatedly? Like close to a dozen times or something? > > That’s a special kind of foolish, I think. He wanted to be sure. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/45 "2019-07-12T23:26:10Z")
[Better](https://media.viafoura.net/viafoura_dx54dxryyj48oo84g48cs04k84804gc_x.jpg) [photos](https://media.viafoura.net/viafoura_be3au8w6xnkk8cos8gkk4os40o0kggw_x.jpg) I found in the comment section of a [newspaper](https://www.silive.com/news/2019/07/family-blames-cruise-ship-for-childs-fall-to-death-denies-grandfather-lost-grip-report-says.html?utm_campaign=statenislandadvance_sf&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwAR01PBARi8erfPNSKC9WAQtVYIrdCvZqPrDTIL63FJt4QV5CGZdkz9gL3t4) article ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/46 "2019-07-12T23:33:58Z")
So the glass is tinted to be very, very, very obvious. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2019, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/47 "2019-07-12T23:35:16Z")
So, it looks like there is a handle on the window like your average common garden variety window. So unless you think that every window should be permanently closed just in case some inattentive person rests a baby against the open window … ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/48 "2019-07-13T02:37:52Z")
> [@robby](#): > > I remember taking my son up in Ferris Wheels when he was very young (~5-10 years old). My wife doesn’t like heights, so she refused to go. I couldn’t do much about the risk of mechanical failure, but I was always cognizant that that in rides like this with no restraints, there was nothing to keep my young son from going over the side (like if he decided to lean out for a better view). In addition to not letting him lean against the sides or the door, I kept a firm grip on his wrist for the entire ride. Not simply holding his hand, like when you cross the street…but a near-death grip on his wrist, strong enough to support his full weight. Yes. Same. My older daughter (now 5.5) has, and has always had, a bizarre lack of fear of heights, or pretty much anything at all. Also, she has the usual small child’s lack of judgment and impulse control and unawareness of consequences. So it’s my job to compensate for all that. I absolutely grasp that. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/49 "2019-07-13T10:57:27Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Children can be unpredictable and can’t be expected to foresee potential danger, especially if they are placed in an unfamiliar environment – like on top of a railing on the 11th deck of a cruise ship. It’s up to the caregivers in their lives to plan for any possible unpredictable action by the child and to foresee potential danger – like the possibility of an open window above that railing… And this is the thing that surprises me. How can a company have an open window at level 11 and not plan for the possibility that peope will drop kids overboard? In my country, Aus, I wouldn’t expect to see an opening on the 11th floor that an an adult could drop a kid through even deliberately, with intent, never mind while drunk, demented, or just stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 11:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/50 "2019-07-13T11:15:09Z")
How terrible, how awful. > [@Bear\_Nenno](#): > > [Here are pictures from the outside and from inside.](https://pressfrom.info/au/news/world/-133641-family-of-toddler-who-fell-150ft-to-her-death-from-cruise-ship-blame-the-liner-because-one-window-was-left-open-in-a-wall-of-glass-when-the-girl-s-grandfather-propped-her-up-against-it-as-it-s-revealed-he-and-her-parents-had-to-be-sedated.html) > [@](#): > > … she went straight through the open space and plummeted to the ground below, letting out a ‘blood curdling’ scream as she fell, according to witnesses. Terrible. The poor girl It’ll be interesting to see if the cruise line has video of the event. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 11:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/51 "2019-07-13T11:51:49Z")
There’s the sad, tragic story of the 2 year old girl, Gauri Govil of Fremont CA. In December 1997 while her family was enjoying a stroll on the Golden Gate Bridge, she tripped and fell through a 9½” gap between the sidewalk and a barrier separating pedestrians from cars driving on the bridge — a serious design flaw that was hidden from view and did not contribute to any injuries for many decades. Until December 1997 that is. The poor girl fell 170’ to the ground below. That part of the bridge is above land, not water. See this article: > **[PAGE ONE -- Dad Calls Girl's Death Preventable / 9 1/2-inch bridge gap...](https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/PAGE-ONE-Dad-Calls-Girl-s-Death-Preventable-3303640.php)** > > A grief-stricken father who videotaped his 2-year-old daughter's fatal plunge through a... When that tragedy happened I brought my kids there to find and look at the hazard. We enjoyed a nice walk on the bridge, but my purpose was to see this hazard and also show it to my kids. It wasn’t easy to see. You had to stand at just the right distance from the barrier to see the gap at just the right angle of view, and sure enough that gap was pretty big, enough for a 2 year old child to fall through. My kids were 13, 11, and 9 at the time. I didn’t want to scare them. I explained that things aren’t always as safe as they appear. Yes I told them of the tragedy of just the week before. Later, the GG Bridge corrected the hazard with a sturdy, taught cable that essentially split the gap in half — now there are two 4¾” gaps separated by that cable, instead of one 9½” gap. Much safer. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/52 "2019-07-13T13:03:09Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And this is the thing that surprises me. How can a company have an open window at level 11 and not plan for the possibility that peope will drop kids overboard? > > In my country, Aus, I wouldn’t expect to see an opening on the 11th floor that an an adult could drop a kid through even deliberately, with intent, never mind while drunk, demented, or just stupid. I assume you’re talking about buildings as well, not just cruise ships? It doesn’t strike me as at all unusual - does Australia have no apartment buildings taller than 10 stories with balconies or rooftop terraces or even operable windows? [This](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/15/realestate/an-architectural-do-over.html) is a 32 story building and [this](https://15w61.com/amenities/) site has a photo of the rooftop space, which is not part of any apartment. You couldn’t accidentally fall off if you were just walking on it, but someone could certainly go over if they were sitting or standing on the railing. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/53 "2019-07-13T13:37:15Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Didn’t something similiar happen to Eric Clapton’s son? On a slightly lighter note, we moved into a house where the upstairs landing had a window that went all the way to the floor. As it was right outside the kids’ rooms, we promptly placed a huge steamer trunk in front of it. And occasionally we’d remind each other “I heard you move the trunk. You’re sure you put it back in front of the Conor Clapton Memorial Window?” ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/54 "2019-07-13T15:17:19Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > And this is the thing that surprises me. How can a company have an open window at level 11 and not plan for the possibility that peope will drop kids overboard? My guess is that the cruise line didn’t see the open window above the railing as being any different that the railings outside or on guest balconies, which are always open to the air above the railing. Confusing the issue is that cruise ships have lots of different types of areas for the guests, some clearly inside, some clearly outside, but also a lot of areas that are not clearly inside or outside. If you look at the close-up pictures upthread, the window was in one of these areas. It was technically “outside,” meaning it was open to the air and not climate controlled. However, if you looked around, you might think that you are in an “inside” area because of the exterior walls and the roof over your head. The problem with all of this is that when guests are in an “inside” location, they don’t expect to see a window open to the air without a screen or other barrier, railing or not. Of course, because they are usually at sea, cruise ships don’t really need screens to keep out insects, but most guests wouldn’t stop to think about this. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/55 "2019-07-13T15:45:13Z")
> [@robby](#): > > My guess is that the cruise line didn’t see the open window above the railing as being any different that the railings outside or on guest balconies, which are always open to the air above the railing. To follow up on this point, the fact remains that the wooden safety railing next to the window was there for a reason. Whether you’re looking out the windows (open or not) of a cruise ship, or are up on deck, or for that matter, if you’re looking out from a scenic overlook on land, or are looking at a zoo exhibit, if there is a safety railing present, it is likely there for a reason. Placing a toddler on top of a safety railing is idiotic. Even if the window wasn’t open, it was still idiotic. Who lets a toddler bang on windows? 😕 And if it turns out that the grandfather did in fact know the window was open, who would ever put a squirming toddler on top of a safety railing where she could fall to her death if you lose hold of her? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/56 "2019-07-13T15:58:23Z")
Chloe Wiegand, Salvatore Anello The names of the toddler, and her grandfather. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/57 "2019-07-13T17:07:34Z")
> [@Bullitt](#): > > Chloe Wiegand, Salvatore Anello > > The names of the toddler, and her grandfather. But to me [he](https://imageresizer.static9.net.au/X4O91PAt5K3zMmDyv3uieLt2iXI=/1000x0/smart/http%3A%2F%2Fprod.static9.net.au%2Ffs%2F52cd726f-a68f-4477-8b2b-9033dd8a50cc) will always be [Jimmy James](https://imgix.ranker.com/user_node_img/50074/1001471037/original/he-was-jimmy-james-on-newsradio-photo-u1?w=650&q=50&fm=pjpg&fit=crop&crop=faces). ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/58 "2019-07-13T18:15:20Z")
As a general matter, I don’t find anything suspicious about this. Regarding the mistaking of an open window for a closed one, I’ve done similar things often, in places like buses, trains, cars, and counters with glass partitions. Regarding the taking of risk, people get used to the risk levels inherent in their own surroundings. If you live in a place with glass windows, you get used to the situation in which I you lean against it with no consequences. Regarding lifting a child to do something like that, I see people lifting children all the time to do things like that. For many adults, it’s more comfortable than staying bent down. And I see people routinely take what seem to be crazy risks with children. I recently watched a family who was sightseeing in the city. There were two children, and they were carrying several bags, like families touring with children tend to. The father, a quite tall man, was horsing around with the older boy. Probably 5 or 6 maybe? (I’m not good at estimating age.) when the family got ready to move on to another location, the father grabbed the kid by the ankles and flung them over his shoulders. The kid, squealing with delight the entire time, awkwardly hung upside down from his father’s back. He didn’t have the strength or dexterity to hoist himself upright until the mother pushed him up into position. The whole time they were just one little slip away from the kid falling six feet to the pavement head-first. I was paralyzed with fear watching this performance but they acted like they had done it hundreds of times. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [July 13, 2019, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/59 "2019-07-13T22:41:56Z")
Last year, I saw a man carrying a woman on his shoulders…on the Golden Gate Bridge walkway. One slip-up and that hoisted person could have fallen 200 feet to her death. ---
**Author:** ![UCBearcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/77aa72/32.png) [@UCBearcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UCBearcats)\ **Post date:** [July 23, 2019, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/60 "2019-07-23T03:31:23Z")
> **[Parents of toddler who fell from Royal Caribbean window want cruise line to...](https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/parents-of-toddler-who-fell-royal-caribbean-window-want-cruise-line-take-responsibility-170226215.html)** > > Alan and Kimberly Wiegand sat down with Today for an emotional interview following their daughter's "unfathomable" death after she fell from a Royal Caribbean Cruise window. So just like every irresponsible person, the parents don’t think that grandpa did anything wrong and it is all on the cruise line. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816.md?page=4)