# Baby falling through window **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 10, 2019, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816 "2019-07-10T02:09:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![PunditLisa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/4af34b/32.png) [@PunditLisa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PunditLisa)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/101 "2019-11-30T18:23:07Z")
Tragic accident by a careless grandfather, who will pay for it the rest of his life because he’ll have to live with it the rest of his life. The parents shouldn’t have sued; the police shouldn’t have pressed charges. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/102 "2019-11-30T18:52:03Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > I don’t see a problem with taking the remorse and heartache of accidentally killing someone you love into account when determining appropriate punishment. The operative phrase here is (or IMHO should be) “when determining appropriate punishment.” Which I can agree with, just so long as we’re on the same page that being charged with a crime is not itself a punishment. So, in order for people who kill their own children to get “appropriate punishment”, even one taking into account their personal sense of loss and remorse, they must first be charged with a crime and then, if the evidence points to a criminal violation, to sentencing. I’m fine with all that being taken into account at sentencing, but not in determining whether or not charges should be brought to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Enola\_Gay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ab097/32.png) [@Enola\_Gay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enola_Gay)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/103 "2019-11-30T19:41:50Z")
The fact that he is blaming the cruise ship makes him extremely unsympathetic IMO. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [November 30, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/104 "2019-11-30T22:19:54Z")
> [@Darren\_Garrison](#): > > [A longer stretch from the interview](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cruise-ship-death-salvatore-anello-grandfather-charged-death-of-chloe-wiegand-says-hes-colorblind/). Apparently the fuckwit held her there for 30 seconds before dropping her. He knew the glass wasn’t there–he is making up shit to cover his own ass. That reporting clears up some mystery surrounding the final moments of the incident, and not in Sam’s favor either. The bit about how a warning sign would have prevented this is BS. Proves his brain was in park it may be there permanently from that little nugget of info, warn me not dangle my baby outside a window. Idiot. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/105 "2019-12-01T02:50:28Z")
I have several friends who play and enjoy watching hockey. Have taken the opportunity to ask them about the practice of people banging on the glass. To a person, they consider the bangers annoying idiots. But grampa slippery hands thinks it is just good clean fun, that everyone should understand him encouraging on a cruise ship. Fucking idiot child killer. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 10:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/106 "2019-12-01T10:14:56Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > It’s not about the age of the victim; it’s about the relationship of the victim to the person causing the harm. Hit your child with a car, whether that child is 5 or 25, you are going to be suffering terribly _from the loss of your child_. Hit a random pedestrian, and their loss isn’t going to independently cause you to suffer apart from your guilt over your own actions. Get into a fight with your own father and accidentally kill him, you’re going to suffer a lot more than if you accidentally kill a stranger. I don’t see a problem with taking the remorse and heartache of accidentally killing someone you love into account when determining appropriate punishment. > Obligatory link to the [Pulitzer prize winning explanation](https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/magazine/fatal-distraction-forgetting-a-child-in-thebackseat-of-a-car-is-a-horrifying-mistake-is-it-a-crime/2014/06/16/8ae0fe3a-f580-11e3-a3a5-42be35962a52_story.html). Or in one case, you accidentally leave your child in the car because you were too distracted by sexting several women at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/107 "2019-12-01T10:32:24Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > Or in one case, you accidentally leave your child in the car because you were too distracted by sexting several women at the same time. Not that I’m coming down on the “unknowingly leaving a child to bake to death is not a crime” side, but is the mechanism behind the lapse any different? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/108 "2019-12-01T13:00:56Z")
> [@chela](#): > > That reporting clears up some mystery surrounding the final moments of the incident, and not in Sam’s favor either. The bit about how a warning sign would have prevented this is BS. Proves his brain was in park it may be there permanently from that little nugget of info, warn me not dangle my baby outside a window. Idiot. This is the first time I’ve seen the part about how he couldn’t reach the glass, so he tried to stand her on the rail and leaned forward . I don’t know whether to believe it or not - it’s hard for me to believe that he thinks that this story is a lie that will cause people to excuse him and blame the cruise line, but it’s equally hard to imagine that he went through this whole thought process at no point does he think it’s a bad idea and he does it _anyway_. I mean, if anything, that story makes him look worse not better. ---
**Author:** ![StarvingButStrong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/starvingbutstrong/32/335_2.png) [@StarvingButStrong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StarvingButStrong)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/109 "2019-12-01T14:57:40Z")
If HE couldn’t reach the glass to bang on it, how the hell could he think the child could?? ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/110 "2019-12-01T15:56:26Z")
The guy was Michael Jacksoning. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/111 "2019-12-01T16:04:24Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > I have several friends who play and enjoy watching hockey. Have taken the opportunity to ask them about the practice of people banging on the glass. To a person, they consider the bangers annoying idiots. But grampa slippery hands thinks it is just good clean fun, that everyone should understand him encouraging on a cruise ship. Fucking idiot child killer. Yeah, I don’t watch hockey, but the idea of encouraging your child to bang on glass when there are other people around strikes me as incredibly obnoxious. I feel like this guy shouldn’t have been trusted to supervise children just because of that. And “I couldn’t reach the glass, so I pushed her out farther”?!! ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2019, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/112 "2019-12-01T16:13:41Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Unless you honestly believe that old grandfather intentionally murdered that baby, then arresting him is just compounding a tragic situation. Also, unless you believe that you can convince a jury of that, you are also wasting tax payer money. > [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Justice is not being served by prosecuting the grandfather, in what was clearly an accident. > > I do not believe that there is some corporate / governmental conspiracy to dissuade the family from suing the cruise line, but the criminal charge does put more of the responsibility on the grandfather. I assume the charges are negligent homicide, not clod-blooded premeditated murder. Gramps is a dimwitted asshole, but there’s zero evidence he was trying to kill the kid. The question is whether his negligence rose to the level of criminal behavior. I kinda think it does. And the fact that he’s blaming the cruise ship and doesn’t seem to acknowledge that he is at fault makes me feel the trial wouldn’t be a complete waste of resources. I guess I feel that it’s not enough for him to feel bad that she’s gone, he should feel bad that HE KILLED HER. Maybe that’s just vindictiveness on my part, I dunno. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/113 "2019-12-02T18:05:58Z")
> [@chela](#): > > Disney had/had gators on their property. Lane Graves a little boy was killed by gators while on Disney property. They could’ve sued but chose not to. They did receive a settlement and created a foundation in honor of their son. Disney has alligators on its property because Walt Disney World is in Florida, where there are alligators everywhere. The family didn’t sue because they weren’t fucking insane. ---
**Author:** ![chela](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chela/32/21582_2.png) [@chela](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chela)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/114 "2019-12-02T20:09:35Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Disney has alligators on its property because Walt Disney World is in Florida, where there are alligators everywhere. The family didn’t sue because they weren’t fucking insane. The comebac of the american alligator is astounding! I remember when growing up in SFla in the 60-80’s one would have to go to the Everglades to catch a glimpse of the beast now they’re everywhere! ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/115 "2019-12-02T20:33:53Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, thanks. I mean, wtf? You encourage your kid to baby on glass windows, in public? I feel bad for the kid and all, but some adults shouldn’t supervise children. I think the baby pounding on glass is BS and they’re doubling-down on it because changing the story now would kill off the lawsuit CL: What happened? GF: _think fast_ I put her up to the window. She likes to pound on glass. CL: _thinking that pounding on window panes is a bad idea_ But the window was open. GF: _duck - dodge - hide_ Ummmmm, about that … ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/116 "2019-12-02T20:46:18Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > Unless you honestly believe that old grandfather intentionally murdered that baby, then arresting him is just compounding a tragic situation. If there is an expectation for the cruise line to be held legally responsible if they are at fault, why should it be any different if the grandfather was at fault? ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/117 "2019-12-02T23:01:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > I assume the charges are negligent homicide, not clod-blooded premeditated murder. In the news here recently for unrelated reasons, one of the states here in Aus. has decided to classify that kind of negligent homicide as murder. I assume simple politics. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/118 "2019-12-03T00:25:31Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Yes, thanks. I mean, wtf? You encourage your kid to baby on glass windows, in public? I feel bad for the kid and all, but some adults shouldn’t supervise children. How many times have you seen kids standing up in shopping carts or riding in the lap of an adult while on a lawn tractor. The first thing I noticed was the angle of the windows. This affects the reflection characteristics. They use to angle windows on [boats](https://www.123rf.com/photo_101239958_wheelhouse-marine-tug-all-round-visibility-vessel-towing-tow-out-port-of-murmansk.html)to cut down on glare and it carried over to some [airplanes](https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2018/03/08/vintage-ford-tri-motor-tin-goose-airplane-takes-flight-over-titusville-weekend/400928002/)until wind resistance became an issue. If the light is right it’s very possible all the windows had high visibility. I’m surprised a structure was built at that height with windows that could open. ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/119 "2019-12-03T01:14:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > If the light is right it’s very possible all the windows had high visibility. I’m surprised a structure was built at that height with windows that could open. I’m not - [that window](https://media.viafoura.net/viafoura_dx54dxryyj48oo84g48cs04k84804gc_x.jpg) was not so low that someone walking on the deck would simply fall out. It is very common on cruise ships for there to be [areas](https://www.ncl.com/why-cruise-norwegian/waterfront) [where](https://mycruisestories.com/2017/11/03/cruise-ship-cabins-on-holland-america-oosterdam/) the railing/wall/windows will keep you from tripping and falling overboard, but are not so high that someone couldn’t go over if some sort of stupidity was involved. The only time you see high glass/plexiglass is in large open areas - like the pool deck or a sundeck above a pool deck or sometimes there’s an open area at the very back of the ship. That’s to stop the wind , not to keep people from falling. And if it’s a semi-enclosed area like this was, with a roof, there are typically some windows open for ventilation. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2019, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816/120 "2019-12-03T02:01:00Z")
> [@doreen](#): > > I’m not - [that window](https://media.viafoura.net/viafoura_dx54dxryyj48oo84g48cs04k84804gc_x.jpg) was not so low that someone walking on the deck would simply fall out. It is very common on cruise ships for there to be [areas](https://www.ncl.com/why-cruise-norwegian/waterfront) [where](https://mycruisestories.com/2017/11/03/cruise-ship-cabins-on-holland-america-oosterdam/) the railing/wall/windows will keep you from tripping and falling overboard, but are not so high that someone couldn’t go over if some sort of stupidity was involved. The only time you see high glass/plexiglass is in large open areas - like the pool deck or a sundeck above a pool deck or sometimes there’s an open area at the very back of the ship. That’s to stop the wind , not to keep people from falling. And if it’s a semi-enclosed area like this was, with a roof, there are typically some windows open for ventilation. I agree with what you said but my point is that optically it’s possible for glass to appear without any reflection depending on the angle of the glass and the lighting. If his story is to be believed he would not have placed the child on the railings you linked to. I personally would not want to be in charge of small children on a ship like that because it’s just too easy for them to climb on things. And it’s not 1903. the ship is climate controlled and shouldn’t have windows that open. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-falling-through-window/836816.md?page=7)