# Baby raper kills 17 month old boy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 20, 2006, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334 "2006-07-20T13:54:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Walter\_Windchill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Walter\_Windchill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walter_Windchill)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/81 "2006-07-21T11:45:08Z")
Billy Graham. And know you know THE REST OF THE STORY. ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/82 "2006-07-21T13:21:33Z")
> [@Walter Windchill](#): > > Billy Graham. And know you know THE REST OF THE STORY. Now _that_ is how you use the Paul Harvey gag. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/83 "2006-07-21T15:09:18Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > Yes, this topic is serious. I don’t think anyone will disagree. However, with that in mind, why haven’t you attacked the person who made the joke in the first place ( **OneCentStamp** , I think)? If I’m following your reasoning correctly, that would be an even worse offense, since it’s making light of a terrible situation. My issue wasn’t with a joke, so I’m confused. My issue was with someone derailing the thread into a discussion on capital punishment by high-handedly pointing out what they perceived to be another poster’s moral inconsistency on the subject. I have no problem with taking the piss out of a serious subject thread when it’s, er, indicated. ( **Walter Windchill** , I laughed so hard I nearly choked on my coffee. Thanks. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/84 "2006-07-21T17:06:16Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > My issue wasn’t with a joke, so I’m confused. My issue was with someone derailing the thread into a discussion on capital punishment by high-handedly pointing out what they perceived to be another poster’s moral inconsistency on the subject. I have no problem with taking the piss out of a serious subject thread when it’s, er, indicated. ( **Walter Windchill** , I laughed so hard I nearly choked on my coffee. Thanks. 😃 ) Well, I wrote out a reply, but I lost it, so you’ll have to bear with a much shorter answer. I didn’t think that **scr4** ’s comment was an attempt to hijack the thread in any way. I think he was just pointing out the inconsistency (as you say) of what he saw as a serious comment from **OneCentStamp**. Meanwhile, other covnersations have launched on such topics as child-child molestation and, as I mentioned earlier, jokes, which have equally little to do with the OP. You haven’t attacked them, though, and I’m curious as to why you singled out **scr4** ’s post over the other off-topic ones. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/85 "2006-07-21T17:08:53Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > For cases like this where the guy confessed to what he did? Wanna bet? Well, there’s a few macho retards in every crowd. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/86 "2006-07-21T17:52:05Z")
> [@Sunrazor](#): > > If some people are having trouble understanding the rape … well, there’s nothing to understand. It’s not understandable. The rapist himself probably doesn’t understand it. There is simply no reason for it that a rational mind can grasp. So does that make him insane and not responsible? When does the fact that no rational person would do such a thing become a mitigating factor, or proof that the person is not responsible? ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/87 "2006-07-21T19:30:56Z")
> [@gigi](#): > > So does that make him insane and not responsible? When does the fact that no rational person would do such a thing become a mitigating factor, or proof that the person is not responsible? Damfino. I’m just saying that it appeared some people were trying to make sense of the crime, and that there’s no sense to make of it. Even a natural disaster like an earthquake or tornado, as random as it is, makes more sense to people than this does. That is the essence of evil – it is beyond the experience and imagination of most people. No, I’ve always been a little suspicious of state of mind as a mitigating factor. Suffocating a baby while raping him is not mitigated in any way by molestation the killer suffered as a child. Regardless of how you were treated as a child, when you become an adult you assume responsibility for your actions. A reasonably cognitive person understands that copulating with a baby is wrong – and if a person doesn’t understand that, the person should not be free to move about in society. If they do recognize it and do it anyway … well, they should not be free to move about in society. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/88 "2006-07-21T19:39:56Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Well, there’s a few macho retards in every crowd. Well, at least I recognize and respect the concepts of morality, responsibility and juctice. If that makes me a mocaho retard in your book…I’ll consider the source and thank you for the compliment. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/89 "2006-07-21T19:48:49Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well, at least I recognize and respect the concepts of morality, responsibility and juctice. If that makes me a mocaho retard in your book…I’ll consider the source and thank you for the compliment. Actually, if you’re in favor of vigilante action to punish criminals, you clearly don’t recognize or even understand the principles of “morality, responsibility and justice”. In advocating the idea that the basic rules of our civilization be overturned in order pursue vengeance on this guy, you clearly don’t understand the term “justice” outside the context of old Westerns at all. Justice is founded on the fact that we are a society of laws; you wish those laws to be suspended when you’re really mad at someone. That shows a lack of commitment to justice and a total inability to comprehend the consequences of living within a society not bound by law. If you put your macho cowboy fantasies ahead of living in a civilized society, then you believe that, fundamentally, might and not right is the guiding principle of the society you wish to live in. Sorry, Weirddave, but you have shown all on your own that the concepts of “morality, responsibility and justice” play no role in your world. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/90 "2006-07-21T20:00:08Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#): > > Well, I wrote out a reply, but I lost it, so you’ll have to bear with a much shorter answer. > > I didn’t think that **scr4** ’s comment was an attempt to hijack the thread in any way. I think he was just pointing out the inconsistency (as you say) of what he saw as a serious comment from **OneCentStamp**. Meanwhile, other covnersations have launched on such topics as child-child molestation and, as I mentioned earlier, jokes, which have equally little to do with the OP. You haven’t attacked them, though, and I’m curious as to why you singled out **scr4** ’s post over the other off-topic ones. Well, it was the first one that I noticed, and the first one with that certain self-righteous tone I’ve grown to know and detest. I did make my original comments to **scr4** in the beginning of the thread, it didn’t seem to be shared given the subsequent posts, so I didn’t see fit to voice it over and over and demand the thread go back on topic. In retrospect, I can see that topics like this are going to inevitably bring up the capital punishment thing and thus, my post was useless anyway. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/91 "2006-07-21T20:11:59Z")
That makes complete sense. Thanks for taking the time to clear that up. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/92 "2006-07-21T20:35:52Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Actually, if you’re in favor of vigilante action to punish criminals, you clearly don’t recognize or even understand the principles of “morality, responsibility and justice”. In advocating the idea that the basic rules of our civilization be overturned in order pursue vengeance on this guy, you clearly don’t understand the term “justice” outside the context of old Westerns at all. Justice is founded on the fact that we are a society of laws; you wish those laws to be suspended when you’re really mad at someone. That shows a lack of commitment to justice and a total inability to comprehend the consequences of living within a society not bound by law. If you put your macho cowboy fantasies ahead of living in a civilized society, then you believe that, fundamentally, might and not right is the guiding principle of the society you wish to live in. Sorry, Weirddave, but you have shown all on your own that the concepts of “morality, responsibility and justice” play no role in your world. Actually Excalibre, I think it’s you who is showing an unwuillingness to actually face the stark truth here, weaseling around behind phrases like “overturning the basic rules of our society” and “a total inability to comprehend the consequences of living within a society not bound by law”. Once again, you attempt to change the question by widening it’s scope into something I wasn’t talking about. My statement was that I would be perfectly happy to surrender this guy to what you’re calling “vigilante justice” (by which I mean that he be immediately executed) after he freely admitted (no coertion) that he had sodomized and murdered a toddler. Sodomizing and murdering a toddler is an _immoral_ act, no matter how you slice it or try to justify it, by any human or religious standard I can think of. I recognize that society has the _responsibility_ to remove from itself any member that commits such an act, the same way that one would remove a cancer from one’s own body, no matter how loudly some members of society try to claim that we don’t. Execution is the only _justice_ possible for such a henious crime. Now, you can try and muddy the waters by playing “what if” and “how about in this case”, but all those would be is destractions to keep from facing the truth. I am talking about THIS man, who FUCKED A 17 MONTH OLD BABY UP THE ASS and then KILLED HIM TO CONCEAL WHAT HE HAD DONE and CONFESSED TO THE CRIME. Nothing else. I am not making general policy statements. I am not advocating an abandonment of the principle of justice by lay. I am not proposing vigilantees roam the streets string up jaywalkers. In this case, I said I would be perfectly happy to simply execute him and be done with it, and I would. I doubt it would signal the imminent collapse of Western civilization, no matter how hysterical you get about it. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/93 "2006-07-21T20:48:36Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Actually Excalibre, I think it’s you who is showing an unwuillingness to actually face the stark truth here, weaseling around behind phrases like “overturning the basic rules of our society” and “a total inability to comprehend the consequences of living within a society not bound by law”. Once again, you attempt to change the question by widening it’s scope into something I wasn’t talking about. I don’t see where I’ve done that. > [@](#): > > My statement was that I would be perfectly happy to surrender this guy to what you’re calling “vigilante justice” (by which I mean that he be immediately executed) after he freely admitted (no coertion) that he had sodomized and murdered a toddler. Sodomizing and murdering a toddler is an _immoral_ act, no matter how you slice it or try to justify it, by any human or religious standard I can think of. I have not remotely tried to “justify” what he’s done. You are a liar to suggest that I have. That’s sad, Weirddave. Because I disagree with you, you’ve decided to make up revolting lies like suggesting that I’m trying to somehow justify what this person did. Believe it or not, some of us are capable of believing that justice applies even to bad people, even when they’ve done horrible things. That’s the fundamental difference between your attitude and mine, Weirddave. I understand what the concept of justice is, and that a key part of it is that the absolute worst people in society still have to be treated fairly. You don’t, because you favor, instead, that a mob of people dispense punishment as it sees fit. > [@](#): > > I recognize that society has the _responsibility_ to remove from itself any member that commits such an act, the same way that one would remove a cancer from one’s own body, no matter how loudly some members of society try to claim that we don’t. Execution is the only _justice_ possible for such a henious crime. And in proposing vigilante “justice” for him, you demonstrate that you have no concept of actual justice. That’s what it is to live in a civil society; the rule of law extends to the worst people in society. It’s not about being nice, it’s about being just and fair. If you wish to campaign for a change in the law so that guys like this face the death penalty, you can do that. But when you try to justify mob rule, you don’t get to claim to be enforcing justice anymore. Mob rule and justice are simply not compatible. > [@](#): > > Now, you can try and muddy the waters by playing “what if” and “how about in this case”, but all those would be is destractions to keep from facing the truth. Again you lie. I haven’t made up any hypotheticals here at all. > [@](#): > > I am talking about THIS man, who FUCKED A 17 MONTH OLD BABY UP THE ASS and then KILLED HIM TO CONCEAL WHAT HE HAD DONE and CONFESSED TO THE CRIME. Nothing else. I am not making general policy statements. I am not advocating an abandonment of the principle of justice by lay. I am not proposing vigilantees roam the streets string up jaywalkers. In this case, I said I would be perfectly happy to simply execute him and be done with it, and I would. That _is_ vigilanteism. Seeking vengeance outside the confines of the law defines vigilanteism. I’m talking about some abstract concepts here, but the idea that mob rule and justice are two different things is not a hard one. > [@](#): > > I doubt it would signal the imminent collapse of Western civilization, no matter how hysterical you get about it. It wouldn’t mean the collapse of western civilization right up until the mob decided to extend their purview from this man to other people they thought should be executed. Why do you think laws were invented in the first place? Because mobs of people that appoint themselves judge, jury, and executioner are notoriously unreliable. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/94 "2006-07-21T21:13:47Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > If you wish to campaign for a change in the law so that guys like this face the death penalty, you can do that. White is likely to be indicted for [aggravated murder](http://www.10tv.com/?sec=home&story=10tv/content/pool/200607/164062289.html) which makes him eligible for the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/95 "2006-07-21T21:14:45Z")
> [@Lissa](#): > > White is likely to be indicted for [aggravated murder](http://www.10tv.com/?sec=home&story=10tv/content/pool/200607/164062289.html) which makes him eligible for the death penalty. Ahh. I don’t support the death penalty, but I can’t say that this is the sort of case that gets me all upset about it. ---
**Author:** ![lisacurl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/41988e/32.png) [@lisacurl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisacurl)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/96 "2006-07-21T21:41:44Z")
I find it surprising that the authorities didn’t have White in isolation from moment of his arrest. It was only a matter of time, given that he’s accused of such a heinous crime, that another prisoner would target him for violence. Of course, I’m cynical enough to wonder whether White’s suicide attempt was only brought about by the attack, although granted, it could be from realizing that he’s facing the death penalty now. I wonder if I was a better person if I would feel something other than disappointed that they saved him. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/97 "2006-07-21T21:49:43Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > I don’t see where I’ve done that. Just watch, you’re about to do it again. > [@Excalibre](#): > > I have not remotely tried to “justify” what he’s done. You are a liar to suggest that I have. That’s sad, Weirddave. Because I disagree with you, you’ve decided to make up revolting lies like suggesting that I’m trying to somehow justify what this person did. Fine. You haven’t done those things. (I was using the royal “you”, more or less, but rereading I can see how it might have looked personal. Apologies. Change “you” to “one” for a clearer meaning) I’m glad you agree that this is an immoral act. That’s step one, we agree on morality. > [@Excalibre](#): > > Believe it or not, some of us are capable of believing that justice applies even to bad people, even when they’ve done horrible things. That’s the fundamental difference between your attitude and mine, Weirddave. I understand what the concept of justice is, and that a key part of it is that the absolute worst people in society still have to be treated fairly. Well, we’re close here, except that you are not quite understanding what I said. You’re talking about the process of determining guilt, the judicial process. He’s already confessed, which renders that entire process moot. Assume that he’s already been through the entire legal process, appeals and everything, and guilty as sin. That’s the point I am at for the purpose of this discussion. I am maintaining that the only just punsihment-which is also called “justice” in the imprecise english language-is execution. > [@Excalibre](#): > > You don’t, because you favor, instead, that a mob of people dispense punishment as it sees fit. And there you go. THIS is where you’re changing the question by inventing an imaginary mob of people dispensing punishment. I never said any such thing. I said _I_ could do it, and that I\*I could live with it after having done it. > [@Excalibre](#): > > And in proposing vigilante “justice” for him, you demonstrate that you have no concept of actual justice. That’s what it is to live in a civil society; the rule of law extends to the worst people in society. It’s not about being nice, it’s about being just and fair. If you wish to campaign for a change in the law so that guys like this face the death penalty, you can do that. But when you try to justify mob rule, you don’t get to claim to be enforcing justice anymore. Mob rule and justice are simply not compatible. See my last 2 replies, they cover the same ground. > [@Excalibre](#): > > Again you lie. I haven’t made up any hypotheticals here at all. Oh? > [@Excalibre](#): > > In advocating the idea that the basic rules of our civilization be overturned in order pursue vengeance on this guy… > \ > you wish those laws to be suspended when you’re really mad at someone. That shows a lack of commitment to justice and a total inability to comprehend the consequences of living within a society not bound by law. If you put your macho cowboy fantasies ahead of living in a civilized society, then you believe that, fundamentally, might and not right is the guiding principle of the society you wish to live in. I never said any of that. > [@Excalibre](#): > > That _is_ vigilanteism. Seeking vengeance outside the confines of the law defines vigilanteism. I’m talking about some abstract concepts here, but the idea that mob rule and justice are two different things is not a hard one. Again with the mob rule. Do you get paid a stipend every time you use that term? And again, this goes back to what I’ve been saying. I’m talking about just punishment, and you insist on talking about judicial process. The two are most emphatically NOT one and the same. > [@Excalibre](#): > > It wouldn’t mean the collapse of western civilization right up until the mob decided to extend their purview from this man to other people they thought should be executed. Why do you think laws were invented in the first place? Because mobs of people that appoint themselves judge, jury, and executioner are notoriously unreliable. _sigh_ See above. ---
**Author:** ![Lissa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lissa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lissa)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2006, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/98 "2006-07-21T23:43:41Z")
> [@lisacurl](#): > > I find it surprising that the authorities didn’t have White in isolation from moment of his arrest. It was only a matter of time, given that he’s accused of such a heinous crime, that another prisoner would target him for violence. No, it’s not. As I explained in my last post, the old idea of “everybody knows what happens to molesters in prison” is not true. The other inmates just don’t care. The main reason why you’ll get beat up in prison is if someone feels you wronged them. They have no interest in being society’s avenging angels. ---
**Author:** ![Giraffe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giraffe/32/129_2.png) [@Giraffe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giraffe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/99 "2006-07-22T00:17:42Z")
> [@Weirddave](#): > > Well, we’re close here, except that you are not quite understanding what I said. You’re talking about the process of determining guilt, the judicial process. He’s already confessed, which renders that entire process moot. Assume that he’s already been through the entire legal process, appeals and everything, and guilty as sin. That’s the point I am at for the purpose of this discussion. I am maintaining that the only just punsihment-which is also called “justice” in the imprecise english language-is execution. :dubious: I’m having a hard time seeing how you get “execution after a full legal process” from: > [@Weirddave](#): > > > [@Excalibre](#): > > > > Recreational outrage, like I said. I doubt any of the people posting here really want to throw away our civilized system of justice in favor of vigilante rule. > > For cases like this where the guy confessed to what he did? Wanna bet? It seems to me that the phrase “throw away our civilized system of justice in favor of vigilante rule” is pretty unambiguous. Maybe you _meant_ something different, but you’d have to be pretty much insane to not see how **Excalibre** drew the conclusion that you’re in favor of vigilante justice over a civilized legal system from what you posted. ---
**Author:** ![Weirddave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/919ad9/32.png) [@Weirddave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weirddave)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2006, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334/100 "2006-07-22T00:52:09Z")
> [@Giraffe](#): > > :dubious: > I’m having a hard time seeing how you get “execution after a full legal process” from: > It seems to me that the phrase “throw away our civilized system of justice in favor of vigilante rule” is pretty unambiguous. Maybe you _meant_ something different, but you’d have to be pretty much insane to not see how **Excalibre** drew the conclusion that you’re in favor of vigilante justice over a civilized legal system from what you posted. Seems that you’re not reading closely enough what was actually said. Ex said that he doubted anyone really wants to throw away our civilized system of justice in favor of vigilante rule. “Vigilante rule” is his strawman in this argument, but I said sure I would in the case where the perp confessed, and later clarified that what I was talking about was executing the guy. He then weet on and on as “justice” as the process of determining guilt, and I then took the time to clarify that I was talking about “justice” as apropriate punishment. I said as much I the part you quoted: > [@](#): > > **Assume that he’s** already been through the entire legal process, appeals and everything, and **guilty as sin. That’s the point I am at for the purpose of this discussion.** If Ex wants to question something I said, he’s right to do so. What I take issue with is continuing to mischaracterize exactly what I was talking about after I’d clarified it. That’s par for the course for Elv1sLies, but I expect better of that from Ex. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-raper-kills-17-month-old-boy/365334.md?page=6)