# Baby seized from parents by Police and CPS **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [April 29, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054 "2013-04-29T23:11:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/21 "2013-04-30T05:18:40Z")
Assuming that the couple is telling the truth. Remember, CPS is is prohibited from saying why they took the kids, so we have to go off of the word of the parents, who aren’t exactly the most trustworthy sources. The doctors note saying the kid would be fine at home seems to suggest that CPS acted improperly, but I don’t think we can say anything definitively. There was a thread about a similar incident in Norway a few months back:[Feeding your kid with hand is a crime in Norway?! - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638993). Turned out the parents had lied and the kids were being abused (see post 70). ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/22 "2013-04-30T05:46:04Z")
Somebody at the first hospital told CPS that the child was in danger because he was removed from the hospital or because they suspected some type of abuse by the parents. The latter cannot be true because if that was the case they should have notified CPS earlier. Since another doctor had seen the child and said there was no risk in letting him go home, CPS is out of bounds in this action. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/23 "2013-04-30T12:30:25Z")
> [@MLS](#): > > I took my daughter out of the hospital AMA 3 days after an appendectomy. She had no complications, no fever, and was able to eat and poop. For some reason that was never explained to me the doctor thought she should stay. We left and there were no security or police involved. Now, this was about 30 years ago, so maybe things have changed. Yes, things have changed. Enforcement also varies, by hospital and by physician. And, of course, there’s “well, we’d really like to keep her for one more day of observation, so we’re not going to discharge her,” and then there’s, “are you crazy, she won’t likely survive an ambulance ride across town!” Not every AMA is equal or equally worthy of intervention. Please note, I know nothing of this case and am not passing judgement on it. I’m inclined to be on the “there’s more to the story and CPS can’t talk about it,” camp. But really, I’m just addressing the larger “take 'em out AMA” suggestion. By and large, you can’t, and most people don’t know that. I think that’s an important thing to know when you’re deciding to take your kid to the hospital. At that point, you’re handing over the decision making to the guy in the labcoat. Informed consent is a very different kettle of fish in Pediatrics than in regular medicine. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/24 "2013-04-30T13:00:51Z")
> [@keeganst94](#): > > Remember, CPS is is prohibited from saying why they took the kids … What’s the reason for this? Seems to be something of an invitation to overreach: if you aren’t allowed to state a reason, you don’t really need a compelling one. It’s easy to believe that the reason here might include “We didn’t want to be later accused of not having done enough - better to overreact ‘in the interests of the child’.” Which translates as “Parents that come under suspicion are guilty until proven innocent.” ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/25 "2013-04-30T13:04:24Z")
It seems obvious to me that they don’t comment publicly on cases to preserve the privacy of the individuals involved. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/26 "2013-04-30T14:00:54Z")
It seems like we have one of these threads every other month or so, and in the end, when all the facts come out, it always turns out CPS had a valid reason to be concerned. I have no reason to doubt it will be the same this time. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/27 "2013-04-30T14:08:27Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It seems like we have one of these threads every other month or so, and in the end, when all the facts come out, it always turns out CPS had a valid reason to be concerned. I have no reason to doubt it will be the same this time. This one sounds different. Maybe it won’t be, news reports can’t be trusted, but on it’s face this sounds like a hospital and CPS crossing the line. As I stated already, if there were any problem other than removing the child from one hospital to take it to another then CPS should have been notified when the child was first brought in. So there could be some facts still unknown, but based on what is known, there’s no justification for this. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/28 "2013-04-30T14:11:09Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > What’s the reason for this? Because of privacy laws. Government officials, and agencies acting under the authority of statutes, are normally prohibited from making public the private information about the individuals with whom they come into contact. That isn’t to say they’re not accountable. Accountability comes through the courts, where the entire story is presented, both pro and con, and also through supervision by other government agencies. But, citizens generally have a statutory right to have their personal information kept private. ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/29 "2013-04-30T15:24:21Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > This one sounds different. Maybe it won’t be, news reports can’t be trusted, but on it’s face this sounds like a hospital and CPS crossing the line. As I stated already, if there were any problem other than removing the child from one hospital to take it to another then CPS should have been notified when the child was first brought in. So there could be some facts still unknown, but based on what is known, there’s no justification for this. It’s true that based on what we know now it seems like this is unjustified. If the facts continue to bear that out, and the parents don’t get their kid back quickly, I will join in the outrage. But again, this is a story we’ve heard before. They _all_ sound bad at first; that’s why they make the news! So I’m going to withhold judgment for a bit. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/30 "2013-04-30T15:37:34Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > It’s true that based on what we know now it seems like this is unjustified. If the facts continue to bear that out, and the parents don’t get their kid back quickly, I will join in the outrage. But again, this is a story we’ve heard before. They _all_ sound bad at first; that’s why they make the news! So I’m going to withhold judgment for a bit. I’m curious, do you or anyone else have an explanation for why the hospital didn’t call CPS when the child was first admitted? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/31 "2013-04-30T15:45:31Z")
The couple is getting attention in Russia too. They appeared on a Russian show Russia Today and it’s getting covered in Germany. The Russian couple is even getting some support from the Russian consulate. None of that really helps. It’s up to a judge and CPS right now. The video has a lot more info. [http://www.news10.net/news/article/243243/2/Parents-global-audience-await-decision-in-Sacramento-custody-case-](http://www.news10.net/news/article/243243/2/Parents-global-audience-await-decision-in-Sacramento-custody-case-) > [@](#): > > SACRAMENTO - On Monday, a judge is expected to weigh in on a local custody case that has captivated people from Sacramento to Russia. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/32 "2013-04-30T15:59:13Z")
Apparently that Monday decision was yesterday. 😉 The video explains an agreement thats been worked out. The child is getting transferred to Stanford Medical Center. CPS is withdrawing the petition for detainment. But they will be monitoring the case. Couple has to agree to CPS home visits etc. It sounds encouraging that the parents are close to regaining full custody. I hope the baby’s surgery goes ok. [http://www.news10.net/news/article/243286/2/Judge-orders-transport-of-Baby-Sammy-to-Stanford-Medical-Center](http://www.news10.net/news/article/243286/2/Judge-orders-transport-of-Baby-Sammy-to-Stanford-Medical-Center) ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/33 "2013-04-30T16:13:53Z")
It wasn’t physical abuse. The couple had done nothing wrong until they removed the child from the hospital. That’s now apparently considered abuse in todays society. :dubious: From whats been reported it sounds like the baby has a heart murmur that requires surgery. How urgent that surgery is in dispute. Hospital #2 felt that the baby could go home. Presumably while the couple consulted other doctors. Hospital #1 said no, lets operate now and the heck with second opinions. Now hospital #3 Stanford is getting the baby. 😉 > [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m curious, do you or anyone else have an explanation for why the hospital didn’t call CPS when the child was first admitted? ---
**Author:** ![miss\_elizabeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@miss\_elizabeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/miss_elizabeth)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/34 "2013-04-30T16:45:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’m curious, do you or anyone else have an explanation for why the hospital didn’t call CPS when the child was first admitted? Nope. Do you? Remember- making something up doesn’t count. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/35 "2013-04-30T16:50:58Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Hospital #1 said no, lets operate now and the heck with second opinions. so they’re guilty of having good insurance? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/36 "2013-04-30T16:52:52Z")
😕 I wasn’t making up anything. That news video explains that the judge, CPS and the family agreed to transfer the baby to Stanford. CPS is returning control of the baby to the parents with CPS oversight. If there was any other home issues then CPS wouldn’t have agreed to this resolution. It’s probably the best possible outcome that the family could get. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/37 "2013-04-30T16:55:02Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > It wasn’t physical abuse. The couple had done nothing wrong until they removed the child from the hospital. That’s now apparently considered abuse in todays society. :dubious: Perhaps you missed **WhyNot** ’s explanation, so I’ll copy it below. Apparently removing a child from a hospital against medical advice may or may not be child abuse, but it does trigger a report to CPS in some places. > [@WhyNot](#): > > In most (all?) states, you \*cannot \*take your child out of the hospital AMA (against medical advice), like you can yourself. So yes, leaving while the physician thinks the child is too unstable to transfer, or leaving to take the child home when the physician thinks the child should be under medical care are both automatic protective services calls, and probably you’re going to have security and police involved, too. > > I ain’t sayin’ it’s right, but it’s how it is. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/38 "2013-04-30T17:07:34Z")
I saw that earlier. It’s something any new parent needs to be aware of when they take a kid to the hospital. It’s rare anyway to remove a child from a hospital unless there’s concerns about the medical care they are receiving. Even then in todays world a parent better act very carefully and get the child transferred to another facility. Don’t take the kid from the hospital against orders. It wasn’t like that when I grew up in the 70’s. But the Nanny state is getting stronger every year. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/39 "2013-04-30T18:35:28Z")
> [@miss\_elizabeth](#): > > Nope. Do you? > > Remember- making something up doesn’t count. I don’t, and it looks like it turns out that was the only reason, and once it was found that the child was taken to another doctor who said he could return home CPS should have stepped down. And if they are continuing to be involved in this then they are overstepping their bounds. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054/40 "2013-04-30T19:01:36Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I saw that earlier. It’s something any new parent needs to be aware of when they take a kid to the hospital. It’s rare anyway to remove a child from a hospital unless there’s concerns about the medical care they are receiving. Even then in todays world a parent better act very carefully and get the child transferred to another facility. Don’t take the kid from the hospital against orders. > > It wasn’t like that when I grew up in the 70’s. But the Nanny state is getting stronger every year. Check the Pit thread where a couple who believed on faith-healing got off on probation for letting one kid die by relying on prayer instead of going to a doctor, and now another one of their kids is dead - because they violated the terms of their probation by not seeking medical attention. Requirements like this are in place partially because of assholes like that. I used to work in a pediatric cardiology office, and every now and then I’d have to write a politely-worded letter to the effect of, “your kid has a fucking serious condition that requires follow-up, and you’ve missed a ton of appointments - get your kid seen or we might have to call CPS.” And you’d be surprised about how unconcerned parents can be about their kids’ health. One of our doctors was pleading over the phone with a parent to get their blue-in-the-face infant to the ER on a particular Thursday rather than go to a relative’s kid’s grade school graduation. After being examined, they’d planned on heart surgery that Monday, but the baby dramatically worsened over the weekend and they did surgery then. It’s a balance between “OMG Nanny State telling you how to raise your kids” and “OMG those doctors should have DONE something!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baby-seized-from-parents-by-police-and-cps/657054.md?page=3)