# ...Babylon 5 to return with JMS at the helm **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [September 28, 2021, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497 "2021-09-28T09:13:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/21 "2021-09-28T22:25:26Z")
> [@Jihi](#): > > Maybe the best comparison would be to BSG? Same basic premise with updated effects and more current storytelling sensibilities? Plus, it did feature an actor from the original series (Richard Hatch), appearing in a new role, while his original role was recast with a younger actor. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/22 "2021-09-28T22:49:50Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > It’s the CW. So JMS will have to insert some horny teenager/20-something melodramatic relationship issues. How many horny, moody teenagers/20-somethings can you fit on a single space station? > [@JMS](#): > > The network understands the uniqueness of Babylon 5 and is giving me a great deal of latitude with the storytelling. > …I don’t think we are going to see that happen, otherwise JMS wouldn’t have bought it back. > [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing what a reboot brings to the table, here. We already have Babylon 5, and aside from a few dated CGI sequences and an older aspect ratio, there’s not much wrong with it. > [@JMS](#): > > if I were creating Babylon 5 today, for the first time, knowing what I now know as a writer, what would it look like? How would it use all the storytelling tools and technological resources available in 2021 that were not on hand then? > > How can it be used to reflect the world in which we live, and the questions we are asking and confronting every day? Fans regularly point out how prescient the show was and is of our current world; it would be fun to take a shot at looking further down the road. > > [@Jihi](#): > > Maybe the best comparison would be to BSG? > [@JMS](#): > > So we will not be retelling the same story in the same way because of what Heraclitus said about the river. There would be no fun and no surprises. Better to go the way of Westworld or Battlestar Galactica where you take the original elements that are evergreens and – > > – put them in a blender with a ton of new, challenging ideas, to create something fresh yet familiar. > > [@N9IWP](#): > > Still trying to figure out how this will all work. I can’t imaging anyone else playing G’Kar – will it be a different alien species that will take the place of the Narn? > [@JMS](#): > > To those asking why not just do a continuation, for a network series like this, it can’t be done because over half our cast are still stubbornly on the other side of the Rim. > > How do you telling continuing story of our original Londo without the original Vir? Or G’Kar? How do you tell Sheridan’s story without Delenn? Or the story of B5 without Franklin? Garibaldi? Zack? > ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/23 "2021-09-28T23:05:10Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Heck, they still have nearly the entire bridge crew. Just missing the first/science officer. Chekov moves over, like he has done before, and Sam Rockwell takes over at center console as Ensign Fleegman. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2021, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/24 "2021-09-28T23:14:29Z")
So B5 was unique in that it was essentially a novel’s worth of story and content attempted to translate into a 5 year TV show. The whole story was planned from the start, which is very unique, even still, within television. Even tightly-scripted shows like Breaking Bad that are very much a continuous story were still created from season to season with no overall plan. But production realities forced a lot of changes to be made. A studio-forced cast change majorly affected the way the story played out. The expected cancellation after season 4 really changed the way season 4/5 played out. A lot of changes to the story had to be made because of those sorts of limitations. So, hypothetically, if the CW committed to the show long term, you could tell something closer to the originally intended story without the changes it had to go through. That would at least be something this show could do uniquely without just being a retelling of the same story with better production. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/25 "2021-09-29T01:43:54Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > A studio-forced cast change majorly affected the way the story played out. I’m assuming you’re referring to Michael O’Hare. His departure may well have been forced by the studio, but what came to light, after his death, was that he was suffering from severe mental illness at the time, which was affecting the show’s production; his departure from the show allowed him to seek treatment for it. That said, yes, it definitely forced JMS to modify a significant amount of his story arc. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/26 "2021-09-29T01:54:06Z")
I assume he is referring to Claudia Christian(Ivanova). When TNT picked up Babylon 5 after its cancellation, she did not come along for a variety of complicated reasons. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/27 "2021-09-29T01:59:26Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > When TNT picked up Babylon 5 after its cancellation, they required her to go because of her of her past performances. I had honestly completely forgotten about that. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/28 "2021-09-29T02:00:28Z")
Actually, looking into it now, I can’t find mention of the specific rumors I remembered hearing at the time, so I don’t know. But there was a falling out in one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/29 "2021-09-29T02:01:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > That said, yes, it definitely forced JMS to modify a significant amount of his story arc. From the synopsis above, it sounds like they’re giving Sinclair’s backstory to Sheridan in this version, which is probably the best way of incorporating both characters into a new narrative. Considering how cultural norms have changed in the past 25-30 years, it sounds like they’ll also have the opportunity to reimagine some of the characters in a way they couldn’t have in the '90s. Ivanova and Talia’s relationship could only be hinted at because having a gay protagonist would have been too controversial at the time - if there are similar characters in the remake, they won’t have to beat around the bush with it. Likewise, the Minbari were originally pitched as being a monogendered species - and if The Orville can do it, I’m sure they’d let JMS do it this time. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/30 "2021-09-29T02:03:28Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > But there was a falling out in one way or another. FWIW, [Christian’s Wikipedia entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Christian#Career) says this about the situation (I have no idea of the accuracy of either account): > [@](#): > > She left the science fiction series when contract negotiations for the fifth and final season broke down. Series creator [J. Michael Straczynski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Michael_Straczynski) maintains that she chose to leave on her own,[[17]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Christian#cite_note-17) while Christian avers that she wished to return for the final season but was released when she requested a reduction in the number of episodes in which she would appear so she could complete another project.[[18]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claudia_Christian#cite_note-18) ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/31 "2021-09-29T02:30:38Z")
Zathras not like reboots… Zathras not like old boots either. Mostly, Zathras like comfy slippers. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/32 "2021-09-29T02:32:38Z")
Zathras have sad fate in original series. Zathras will probably have sad fate in reboot. At least there is symmetry. ---
**Author:** ![Jihi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jihi/32/17768_2.png) [@Jihi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jihi)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/33 "2021-09-29T02:43:48Z")
Whatever the case regarding Michael O’Hare and Claudia Christian and anyone else it would seem it would be fantastic to see CW commit to a full 5 year run and JMS being able to script for that. The truth is 5 years is a long time and the real world is going to intervene in multiple ways as it did first time regardless of intentions and will require rewrites though probably smaller. Without a doubt the biggest change came from the sudden cancelation and renewal between seasons 4 and 5 that, to my understanding at least, led to that interminable telepaths plot in season 5. That nearly made me give up on the show before the end. It would be fantastic to see Ivanova and Talias relationship made explicit. I’d also like to see more of the Centauri occupation of Narn as well in more graphic detail. Londo and G’Kar were by far my favorite characters. If i can be forgiven introducing real world politics for a second, with everything that’s happened with covid and anti-vaxxers id be very interested to see a revisit of the first season episode where Franklin has to fight with the alien parents who were denying their child a life saving surgery for religious reasons. Lots of material to mine there. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/34 "2021-09-29T03:12:05Z")
Another thought. Considering just how much the Mass Effect series “borrowed” from B5 (e.g. a space station as the hub of interstellar diplomacy, humans as galactic newcomers who barely survived a first contact war, newly emerging supernatural powers that other races have been familiar with for centuries, a network of hyperspace gates, ancient aliens who intervened in human evolution, even more ancient aliens who periodically cull the galaxy, a cabal of xenophobic fascists pulling the strings of Earth politics, etc.), I wonder if we’ll see some of ME’s aesthetic rub off on this reboot. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/35 "2021-09-29T03:46:29Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I’m assuming you’re referring to Michael O’Hare. His departure may well have been forced by the studio, but what came to light, after his death, was that he was suffering from severe mental illness at the time, which was affecting the show’s production; his departure from the show allowed him to seek treatment for it. Woops, you’re right, that’s what I was referring to, and I actually knew about the mental illness thing and it slipped my mind. JMS used to talk with fans on usenet all the time (I wonder what percentage of current internet users have even heard of that before) and once posted lists of all the major changes that were forced on him by circumstances and it was pretty impressive. All of the events that concluded the Sinclair/O’hare arc were originally going to take place at the end of the series and featured the main character of the entire arc which was quite a large difference from what actually happened. I generally don’t support reboots, remakes, and all the other stuff that shows we’re just bankrupt on ideas, but of all the potential things to receive that treatment this could be among the more interesting. The CGI and production effects you can get out of a small budget show are way different now, serialized TV is way more established now (B5 was pretty much a pioneer on this) and so the suits would be less skeptical towards it and it could hit the ground running faster and maybe not worry about being cancelled and circumstances so much, and it’s just easier now to have a deeper, richer, more complex world in an era of streaming rather than syndication, so I don’t know, this might be one of the reboots with more potential. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/36 "2021-09-29T03:55:14Z")
> [@SenorBeef](#): > > JMS used to talk with fans on usenet all the time Heck, he even posted here, a couple of times in one thread, to correct some misinformation about himself and to answer the question “Does Babylon 5 get any better?” > [@Ridiculous portrayals of professions on TV](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/ridiculous-portrayals-of-professions-on-tv/601375/123): > > In brief: no, Babylon 5 doesn’t get any better, it will always be just what it is, caught on film like a fly in amber. It’s up to each person to decide, in the quiet turning of their considered conscience, whether or not they like what it is (with, albeit, a rather rocky first season). > > What did Londo see? Everything. > > Sluttiest woman in hollywood? Yo mamma. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/37 "2021-09-29T04:04:47Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing what a reboot brings to the table, here. We already have Babylon 5, and aside from a few dated CGI sequences and an older aspect ratio, there’s not much wrong with it. I understand where you’re coming from but what I think it’ll bring to the table is new fans. I am ambivalent about a reboot in large part because I found the original series to have ended on a satisfactory note. i.e. It was emotionally satisfying. If they do a reboot, fine, but they’re going to have to start pretty much from scratch by taking the premise and going to a different place with it like Battlestar Galactica did. That means a totally new cast, switch up the genders maybe, change some of the aliens, whatever. I’ll give it a chance because I have a lot of goodwill towards JMS. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/38 "2021-09-29T04:21:13Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > If they do a reboot, fine, but they’re going to have to start pretty much from scratch by taking the premise and going to a different place with it like Battlestar Galactica did. That means a totally new cast, switch up the genders maybe, change some of the aliens, whatever. Judging from what JMS has said, it sounds like that’s exactly what he has in mind. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/39 "2021-09-29T05:47:21Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’m having a hard time seeing what a reboot brings to the table, here. We already have Babylon 5, and aside from a few dated CGI sequences and an older aspect ratio, there’s not much wrong with it. That’s not exactly true though, is it? Threat of cancellation forced JMS to resolve the series’ primary conflict in a very abrupt manner seven episodes into Season 4, a sudden reprieve allowed him to resolve the series’ secondary conflict by the end of the season, and another reprieve gave him a 5th season without much of a reason to exist. I’ve always assumed that his original 5-year plan was to end the Earth storyline in Season 4, and leave the resolution of the Shadow/Vorlon War to Season 5. If that’s the case, I’m glad JMS is getting a do-over. Fortunately for him, the CW doesn’t cancel series. If **Supernatural** got 15 years, I’m sure we can count on 5 years for B5. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2021, 10:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/40 "2021-09-29T10:57:27Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Zathras have sad fate in original series. Zathras will probably have sad fate in reboot. > At least there is symmetry. Zathras also on list of B5 actors who have since died (Tim Choate). Sad fate indeed. I’m waffling about the reboot (not that any of it is up to me, obvs). I fear a _Charlie and the Chocolate Factory_ style fate, where the reboot fixes the stuff that didn’t work in the original and ruins the much wider list of stuff that was good about it. But it is what it is. On the one hand, the G’Kar/Londo character arcs were among the best in science fiction and whatever comes will likely not be as good. On the other hand, one can but hope that the name “Byron” will never pass a character’s lips this time around. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497.md?page=3)