# ...Babylon 5 to return with JMS at the helm **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted\ **Created:** [September 28, 2021, 9:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497 "2021-09-28T09:13:51Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/61 "2021-09-30T14:24:36Z")
Even that could be quite a bit easier, given 25-ish years of animation tool development, as well as various training programs and so on for animation/digital imaging. In the 90s, Foundation Imaging and Netter Digital (the two companies that did the B5 CGI) were basically making it up as they went, and taking as much advantage of advances in hardware and software as they could. IIRC one of them was the first to use networked PCs to simultaneously render frames, or something like that. These days, that stuff is well established and has mature hardware and software platforms to do it, and training programs to produce artists/animators. Think about it- we see more sophisticated CGI in PBS kids’ shows these days, than we saw in the Star Trek shows of the late 90s/early 2000s, and I’m sure the Star Trek shows had budget out the wazoo, relatively speaking. Something like a B5 reboot would not necessarily suffer from the same issues- it would be just everyday stuff like a dozen other shows out there. And I suspect they’d just redo the models anyway; even if someone has a zip disk with the models on it, and a zip drive to read them, would they even be readable with today’s CGI packages? I have an email archive from the same era (Lotus cc:Mail), and that thing may as well be impenetrably encrypted; I can’t find any tools to open it, nor any guides on how the file format is organized/formatted either. I would imagine that a 1995-era Lightwave file might be similarly unusable. Or even if it is able to be loaded, would it be useful after so many years? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/62 "2021-09-30T14:37:09Z")
> [@bump](#): > > Something like a B5 reboot would not necessarily suffer from the same issues- it would be just everyday stuff like a dozen other shows out there. A reboot would not. I would expect new and updated models, new scenes, and entirely new content. However, we are speaking of simply remastering the original series. I don’t know if you remember seeing it, but there’s actually quite a bit of detail on Bab5, as well as many of the ships and other CGI locations. Any differences from the original would spawn fan responses about how that fiddly bit that pokes out of Deck 19 of Grey Sector used to be a different shade of blue, or how the greebles on the Agamemnon have shifted 10 degrees to the left. It wouldn’t be undoable, but it wouldn’t be a weekend project either. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/63 "2021-09-30T14:41:16Z")
I would think at this point, remastering and re-doing the CGI for the original series is kind of silly. But even at the time, I was a little bit surprised that they never went back around the end of the series and “unified” the CGI across all the seasons for later syndication and DVD releases. There was such a stark difference between say… Seasons 1 and 3 in terms of the CGI, that it was kind of jarring to see a 1st season episode even then. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/64 "2021-09-30T14:59:10Z")
> [@bump](#): > > I would think at this point, remastering and re-doing the CGI for the original series is kind of silly. I agree, but that’s what I believe that @Chronos was talking about doing. > [@bump](#): > > But even at the time, I was a little bit surprised that they never went back around the end of the series and “unified” the CGI across all the seasons for later syndication and DVD releases. The did look into it when they were going to do a DVD release, and that’s when they found that all the original files were corrupted/missing. It’s likely that if they had the original models and scenes, it _would_ have been a weekend project to remaster them all in 16:9 ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/65 "2021-09-30T15:11:53Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > While you’re at it, check to see if you have the Babylon 5 CGI models on there. [https://3dmdb.com/en/3d-models/babylon%205/](https://3dmdb.com/en/3d-models/babylon%205/) Other sites have other versions. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2021, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/66 "2021-09-30T23:26:01Z")
Nope, no digital models, Had some fun games, a very nice WYSWYG word processor, and a decent blueprint drawing program. And to be perfectly blunt about it - when B5 was in production, video toastr _was_ the state of the art graphics and at that time, the video effects geeks considered B5 the peak graphics for entertainment on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/67 "2021-10-01T01:14:21Z")
> [@Jihi](#): > > Without a doubt the biggest change came from the sudden cancelation and renewal between seasons 4 and 5 that, to my understanding at least, led to that interminable telepaths plot in season 5. The telepath plot was always part of the plan, but it did get a lot of changes. For one, it was supposed to be _Ivanova_ who got involved with Byron, which would have significantly changed the dynamics. JMS changed it to Leita when Christian didn’t resign for the last season. The story I heard, as given by JMS a few years ago, was that Christian had been very much a cheerleader for everyone to sign on for the last season after the unexpected pickup but that she’d been evasive about why she hadn’t signed yet. Turns out her agent had convinced her that she could get more money if she held out. The problem with this plan is that all of the actors, including Christian, had agreed at the start to work for a certain pay rate in order for the show to be produced (keeping the costs down, see cheaping out) so JMS couldn’t give her more money because that wouldn’t be fair to the others. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2021, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/68 "2021-10-01T02:15:24Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > And to be perfectly blunt about it - when B5 was in production, video toastr _was_ the state of the art graphics and at that time, the video effects geeks considered B5 the peak graphics for entertainment on TV. Yeah, and at one time holding up masks on sticks was the ultimate in special effects. That time is not now. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/69 "2021-10-02T13:58:08Z")
Did I say it was now? _WHEN IT WAS PRODUCED_ it was considered amazing, with video toaster being considered the peak of computer generated imaging. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/70 "2021-10-02T14:09:20Z")
Considering state of the art at the time was models being held by wires (or even by hands out of camera view, it was extremely groundbreaking for the time. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/71 "2021-10-02T14:44:13Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > Heck, he even posted here, a couple of times in one thread, to correct some misinformation about himself and to answer the question “Does Babylon 5 get any better?” I had forgotten about that! > [@Alessan](#): > > Fortunately for him, the CW doesn’t cancel series. If **Supernatural** got 15 years, I’m sure we can count on 5 years for B5. They’ll be begging him to change it to a “10 year experiment” instead. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/72 "2021-10-02T15:53:03Z")
> [@Morgyn](#): > > The telepath plot was always part of the plan, but it did get a lot of changes. For one, it was supposed to be _Ivanova_ who got involved with Byron, which would have significantly changed the dynamics. JMS changed it to Leita when Christian didn’t resign for the last season. Was it Ivanova or Winters? Andrea Thompson bailed in favor of _JAG_ after two seasons and most of her teep story line was transferred to Pat Tallman and Leita. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/73 "2021-10-02T15:58:46Z")
Here’s what I always tell people who ask me about Babylon 5. If you watch season one, you might want to see season two. Once you’ve seen season two, you will want to see season three. Once you’ve seen season three, you would threaten physical violence against anyone who would try to stop you from seeing season four. Once you’ve seen seasons one through four, you might as well watch season five. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/74 "2021-10-02T16:00:54Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Once you’ve seen seasons one through four, you might as well watch season five. And once you’ve seen season five, you will have a unfathomable hatred towards anyone named Byron. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/75 "2021-10-02T16:04:55Z")
I think Talia was supposed to follow most of Leita’s line with the Vorlons? Of course, that was originally Leita’s line but was transferred to Talia when Tallman wasn’t originally available to come back for the series. I think Leita was meant to be a follower of Byron but not his lover. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/76 "2021-10-02T16:11:08Z")
I’m trying to remember whether anything about Ivanova’s teep mother was mentioned before season three. I sense… another binge in my future. And a hearty razzberry to PTN brass who didn’t have the balls to commit to the original five year run so JMS rushed through the story line in season four – it was originally supposed to end with _Intersections of Dark and Light_ as the season cliff hanger, then season five was to be the teep story line with Byron, probably not as prominent, and the climax to the shadow war story line. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/77 "2021-10-02T16:16:38Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > then season five was to be the teep story line with Byron, probably not as prominent, and the climax to the shadow war story line. The story line would have been more relevant as the telepaths would be currently in use in the war against the Shadows, as opposed to being resentful over having been made to be used in the war against the shadows. ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2021, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/78 "2021-10-02T20:05:43Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > I’m trying to remember whether anything about Ivanova’s teep mother was mentioned before season three. Ivanova told Talia about her mother in the very first episode of the first season, _Midnight on the Firing Line_. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/79 "2021-10-03T02:38:32Z")
Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2021, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497/80 "2021-10-03T04:46:26Z")
No, she (or her agent) wanted a promise _in writing_ that she would have a number of episodes off, and that could not be, because of the knock-on effect it would have in combination with the “most-favored-nation” clause that is standard in actors’ contracts, which specifies that each actor gets all the perks any other actor gets. If she got _n_ episodes off in writing, then every other actor would get _n_ episodes off, too, and that would be ruinous. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-to-return-with-jms-at-the-helm/951497.md?page=5)