# Babylon 5 was great television science fiction.... **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [July 3, 2001, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030 "2001-07-03T00:59:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![dlb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ecb155/32.png) [@dlb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dlb)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/81 "2001-07-10T12:44:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > Well there’s not much chance of them resurrecting the series itself, so I don’t see it happening. But I wouldn’t put it past JMS at all to do stuff like this. The difference is, he’d find a way to do it _well_. It depends on what you mean by “resurrecting the series itself.” _Babylon 5_ is **done**. There is nothing to be resurrected. But _Crusade_ still has a faint shot, and the Sci Fi channel has as much as said that if _Legend of the Rangers_ does any where near well in the ratings, the movie will be the pilot of a series this fall. This means there are lots of corners of the same universe to be explored. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/82 "2001-07-10T14:37:08Z")
Back to the OP - One thing I’ve always loved about B5 is the utter lack of young brats running around the station’s hallways. No precocious teenagers, no preschoolers in peril, no wide-eyes, “out-of-the-mouths-of-babes” preteens wandering about, being blatently cute. In fact, I can think of only two kids ever appearing in the series: 1. The young, sick alien with the “Christian Scientist” parents, season one. 2. The other alien kid, in the “AIDS Parable” episode, season two. Remember what happened to those two? I think JMS was trying to tell us something. ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/83 "2001-07-10T15:23:28Z")
Don’t forget the psychic girl. Can’t remember the episode offhand–it was fairly early, season 1 or 2, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/84 "2001-07-10T15:58:06Z")
Hmmm. Did she die too? ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/85 "2001-07-10T16:56:32Z")
Fortunately, the teep girl broke that particularly depressing trend, Alessan. After considerable sparring amongst Susan, Talia, and Na’Toth, the girl settled on going to Minbar for training (and presumably, to serve as the Minbari telepaths do). ---
**Author:** ![jab1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ee7513/32.png) [@jab1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jab1)\ **Post date:** [July 10, 2001, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/86 "2001-07-10T21:25:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > **One thing I’ve always loved about B5 is the utter lack of young brats running around the station’s hallways. No precocious teenagers, no preschoolers in peril, no wide-eyes, “out-of-the-mouths-of-babes” preteens wandering about, being blatently cute.** Before JMS sold B5, he was co-host of the radio talk show _Hour 25_ here in Southern California. He talked about B5 a lot and one of the things he promised was that there would never be any cute kids on his show. (He really, really disliked Wesley Crusher on ST:TNG.) Wouldn’t you know that writer David Gerrold (“The Trouble with Tribbles”) would write a story about > [@](#): > > 1. The young, sick alien with the “Christian Scientist” parents, season one. JMS now had a dilemma: Would he stay true to his vow not to have cute kids on his show or produce this excellent story? We know what happened. So what issue of Playboy was it that had Claudia Christian? (I knew I shouldn’t have let my subscription expire. 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/87 "2001-07-11T03:11:04Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Esprix \* > \*\* > > Side note - Marcus isn’t technically dead. According to one of the Babylon 5 CD-ROMs (I don’t recall which), he’s in cryogenic stasis (much like Bester’s wife was) and the information listed on the front panel isn’t “dead” but something along the lines of “awaiting proper medical treatment for possible recussitation” or somesuch > Esprix \*\* Well he’s not coming back. JMS got sick of fans asking for Marcus to be brought back so he did. Sort of. He comes back 300 years in the future, clones Ivanova, and implants her memories into the clone. They crash on a planet and live happily ever after. The character of Marcus will only be seen in flashbacks in any B5 production that takes place after his death. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Esprix](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/esprix/32/7899_2.png) [@Esprix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esprix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/88 "2001-07-11T03:17:05Z")
**MGib** , try to keep up - we’ve already talked about that. 😃 Esprix ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/89 "2001-07-11T03:24:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jab1 \* > \*\* > So what issue of Playboy was it that had Claudia Christian? (I knew I shouldn’t have let my subscription expire. 😃 ) \*\* October '99. The name of the little article with the spread is _I, Claudia_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc348/32.png) [@SpaceGhostofArrakis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpaceGhostofArrakis)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/90 "2001-07-11T03:40:46Z")
Arrrgghhh! I didn’t see that issue!! must.control.rage ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/91 "2001-07-11T04:23:06Z")
_Pssst_… **SpaceGhost, Jab**. Email me. I’ll send ya something. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![whiterabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/cab0a1/32.png) [@whiterabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whiterabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/92 "2001-07-11T13:45:38Z")
Hey, **Arden Ranger** , guess who ELSE is going to be at this con? I’ve been a devoted – maybe downright obsessed – B5 fan for less than a year. It’s hard to believe it’s been such a short time. It feels like a LOT longer, but it’s been so much FUN… I wonder if I could get my hands on that Playboy for my brother…🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/93 "2001-07-11T17:48:12Z")
**whiterabbit** , I hate you. 😉 Claudia’s official website is [here](http://www.claudiachristian.net). You can order her new CD and the _Taboo_ video [here](http://www.claudiachristian.net/order_form.htm) The’re doing two versions of the video. The limited edition contains… nudity. _rowl_. Personally, I think that’s worth $50.00. 😃 The Playboy can still be acquired through her site. _Usually_ the merchandise link takes you to the Galaxy Gateway page that has tons of B5 stuff and personal stuff from a lot of the stars. Currently the link takes you to the order form for her new CD and video. They also have posters on Galaxy Gateway that are shots that didn’t get used in the Playboy spread. All autographed, though not personalized. When I find the Galaxy Gateway page someother way, I’ll let you know. You can always drop the webmistress a line and she can tell you how to get it. IIRC, the Playboy is $30.00. ---
**Author:** ![Arden\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b487fb/32.png) [@Arden\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arden_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2001, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/94 "2001-07-11T20:47:34Z")
Well, duh. No wonder I was having trouble finding it. It’s [Galactic Gateway](http://www.patriciatallman.com/). Click on “Shop” and then type Claudia Christian in the search engine and it’ll take you to all her stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/95 "2001-08-01T03:11:30Z")
I’m watching season 5 again and I’ve noticed something. Byron was a dangerous cult leader who brought about the deaths of many of his followers. 1. He’s a bigot. His general view of mundanes is that of a violent inferior people. 2. He’s willing to use the abilities of his cult to intimidate others into giving him what he wants. 3. Mass suicide, 'nuff said. He did have legitimate gripes about the Psi-Corps and the treatment of teeps in society. But in the end his ego was more important then the well being of his people. Marc ---
**Author:** ![slortar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6bbea6/32.png) [@slortar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slortar)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 12:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/96 "2001-08-01T12:11:43Z")
I loathe Byron. Creepy and annoying. Plus that song the telepaths sing haunts my dreams. Thank God for Bester. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/97 "2001-08-01T15:21:14Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. He’s a bigot. His general view of mundanes is that of a violent inferior people. Based on personal experience with violent mundanes. Yeah, pre-judging a group based on a bad experience with even a significant number of members of the group is a bad thing, but I have a hard time blaming Byron for feeling that mundanes are violent as a rule. Especially seeing as how he and his were bred as weapons to be used by the mundanes. As for inferiority of the mundanes, he struck me as an egotist, feeling himself superior to most human telepaths (who meekly go along with Psi Corps), not just mundanes. His contempt for the mundanes was I thought summed up best in the scen with Garibaldi, when Byron tells him what telepaths are expected to do to tone down their abilities to avoid picking up what mundanes broadcast. > [@](#): > > 1. He’s willing to use the abilities of his cult to intimidate others into giving him what he wants. So was Sheridan. So was De’lenn. So is every leader who uses diplomacy or force to get his or her way, so I take issue with your use of the word “intimidate.” Besides, didn’t Byron say at one point that they only did surface scans and that the tactic was more to get the other races thinking about what _could_ be revealed? He was more using others’ fears about his abilities as opposed to the abilities themselves. Splitting hairs, perhaps, but then Byron has so many hairs he can spare one to be split. > [@](#): > > 1. Mass suicide, 'nuff said. Sheridan ordered an entire ship’s crew to sacrifice themselves just to plant a piece of false intelligence. Any military commander orders troops into battle knowing full well that many of them won’t return. I don’t necessarily see Byron’s acts as radically different from any other leader who sacrifices troops. Byron didn’t order anyone to commit suicide anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2001, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/98 "2001-08-01T22:47:18Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Otto \* > \*\* > > Based on personal experience with violent mundanes. Yeah, pre-judging a group based on a bad experience with even a significant number of members of the group is a bad thing, but I have a hard time blaming Byron for feeling that mundanes are violent as a rule. Especially seeing as how he and his were bred as weapons to be used by the mundanes. \*\* They were created by the Vorlons. And I’d hardly refer to the Vorlons as mundanes. Vorlons themselves were powerful telepaths. And so far as the violence goes look at the Psi-Corps. The mundanes certainly don’t have a monopoly on the violence market. > [@](#): > > \*\* > As for inferiority of the mundanes, he struck me as an egotist, feeling himself superior to most human telepaths (who meekly go along with Psi Corps), not just mundanes. \*\* I agree. > [@](#): > > \*\* > So was Sheridan. So was De’lenn. So is every leader who uses diplomacy or force to get his or her way, so I take issue with your use of the word “intimidate.” \*\* I should have been a bit more clear. Byron was willing to intimidate those who had nothing to do with his plight. The Drazi, Minbari, and the Narn had nothing to do with the treatment of human telepaths or the psi-corps. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Besides, didn’t Byron say at one point that they only did surface scans and that the tactic was more to get the other races thinking about what _could_ be revealed? \*\* Sheridan said that but he also said “Who can remember every thought they had in the past 2 days?” > [@](#): > > \*\* > He was more using others’ fears about his abilities as opposed to the abilities themselves. Splitting hairs, perhaps, but then Byron has so many hairs he can spare one to be split. \*\* That might be true, however some of those people may have had highly sensitive thoughts while they were being scanned. And you are splitting a mighty big hair. If I point a gun at you you’ll be scared even if I know it isn’t loaded. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Sheridan ordered an entire ship’s crew to sacrifice themselves just to plant a piece of false intelligence. Any military commander orders troops into battle knowing full well that many of them won’t return. I don’t necessarily see Byron’s acts as radically different from any other leader who sacrifices troops. Byron didn’t order anyone to commit suicide anyway. \*\* Byron got sick of the world and killed himself and his followers. He didn’t order them to do it but he didn’t exactly try to get them to save themselves. He was more concerned with himself then he was with the well being of his followers. Marc ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/99 "2001-08-02T14:02:21Z")
> [@](#): > > They were created by the Vorlons. And I’d hardly refer to the Vorlons as mundanes. I didn’t. I said they were created for the mundanes to use as weapons. > [@](#): > > And so far as the violence goes look at the Psi-Corps. But is this violence directed at telepaths? According to Byron and some of his follwoers yes, but we don’t witness telepath on telepath violence except in rogue cases. > [@](#): > > I should have been a bit more clear. Byron was willing to intimidate those who had nothing to do with his plight. The Drazi, Minbari, and the Narn had nothing to do with the treatment of human telepaths or the psi-corps. But he wasn’t addressing the actions of Psi-Corps. He was demanding a homeworld for telepaths. As members of the Interstellar Alliance, under whose protection Byron was operating, each of these worlds was involved. > [@](#): > > Sheridan said that but he also said “Who can remember every thought they had in the past 2 days?” Which was kind of the point, no? > [@](#): > > That might be true, however some of those people may have had highly sensitive thoughts while they were being scanned. And you are splitting a mighty big hair. If I point a gun at you you’ll be scared even if I know it isn’t loaded. Don’t misunderstand, I don’t agree with this tactic. Just saying it’s not as indicative of “cult-like” tendencies as you are saying. > [@](#): > > Byron got sick of the world and killed himself and his followers. He didn’t order them to do it but he didn’t exactly try to get them to save themselves. He was more concerned with himself then he was with the well being of his followers. He allowed his followers to exercise free will and free choice in deciding whether to engage in violence or not, in whether to come to B5 or not, in whether to join him in death or not. He may not have been as concerned with his followers at the end in his despair but he didn’t order them to their deaths. ---
**Author:** ![Mars\_Horizon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mars_horizon/32/2804_2.png) [@Mars\_Horizon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mars_Horizon)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2001, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030/100 "2001-08-02T17:11:03Z")
It looks like I’ve come a bit late to the party, but I have a few bits of relevant info that I don’t believe have been shared yet. The entire B5 series, including the movies are going to be released on DVD, supposedly beginning this month. Check the [Lurker’s Guide](http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/lurker.html) for more information. My favorite season was, like most others, the fourth. However, the second season was pretty engaging too. My favorite episode? [Passing Through Gethsemane](http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/master/guide/048.html). I was very much a Christian when that episode aired, and it floored me that an atheist (JMS) could so clearly capture the themes of redemption that are so central to the Christ story. Of course, now almost six years later, and a bit more educated, I am not so surprised, but I am still impressed. Mira Furlan (Delenn) was in town for a con a few years ago, and I got a nice candid picture taken with her. She looks great, but I have this goofy awkward-picture-smile thing going on. ::sigh:: Becky Murphy maintains a site called [B5 Spoiler Junkies](http://www.visi.com/~wildfoto/spoilers.html), where she dishes out the latest and greatest updates in the now evolving B5 saga. The most interesting thing to me is that JMS is now in production for a new series to be aired on Showtime. The following information taken from Becky’s site: > [@](#): > > The series is entitled “Jeremiah.” > Shooting begins September 4th and will debut on Showtime in January. > The plot: A virus wipes out everyone on the planet over the age of puberty (around 12-13 years old). “It is now about 15 years later. Those who were once children have now grown up and are in their late 20s on down. For 15 years, they have been living on the scraps of the old world; now they must either continue the downward slide, or begin to rebuild the world, taking responsibility for themselves and the world and each other. It is, oddly enough, a post-apocalyptic series about _beginnings_ rather than endings, about hope rather then despair. It is about the new world rising out of the ashes of the old world, what shape that world will take, and who will get to decide that shape.” B5 is, IMHO, the greatest sci-fi show to hit the airwaves to date. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babylon-5-was-great-television-science-fiction/71030.md?page=6)