# Babywise: How Have You Escaped The Pit This Long?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [June 7, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181 "2004-06-07T21:39:04Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@tiny\_ham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tiny_ham)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/1 "2004-06-07T21:39:04Z")
The more I read about the [Babywise](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0880707755/102-2479226-3731345?v=glance) baby raising regimen, the sicker I get. The basic premise about this “Christian Based” (the loosest fucking sense of the term) child rearing program (which, incidentally, has been linked to [failure to thrive](http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm) in infants) is to basically bend the child to your will at the very beginning of life. To set a feeding schedule from the day of birth and not stray from it, to set a sleeping schedule and adhere to it, no matter how much the baby cries because this teaches them to ‘give up hope of getting their way’. Hey! Sounds like the happiest household on earth!
Let’s not forget their views on corporal punishment:
\*They advocate “chastisement” as a method of discipline. (Ezzo defines chastisement as “inflicting pain with controlled force to amend an inner attitude.” He advocates using an “instrument with flex to it,” so that the sting will re-direct the child’s behavior.) \*
That’s from ezzo.info a spectacular debunking site on this putrid pile of shit ‘guide’ to raising good Christian kids. Ezzo, the author, also advocates [pinching](http://www.tulsakids.com/babywise-2.html) a five month old for spitting out food, and suggests that raising children [any other way is unbiblical](http://www.worldmag.com/world/issue/05-25-96/national_4.asp).
I could weep for what is happening to these babies, the broken spirits, the sadness, the neglect, the physical and emotional abuse, and I weep for the parents that are bullied and pressured into following this complete bullshit.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/2 "2004-06-07T21:49:45Z")
This is just…evil. :mad:
There is a special subcircle of Hell for people like this.
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### Author:  [@Siddhartha\_Vicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siddhartha_Vicious)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/3 "2004-06-07T21:53:51Z")
I’m a Christian. When my baby was hungry, we fed her. When she was tired, we let her sleep.
You simply can’t bend an infant’s will to meet your own. And you shouldn’t want to.
I wouldn’t weep for the parents, if I were you. Anyone that does this to a kid is a dickhead who doesn’t deserve your tears.
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### Author:  [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/4 "2004-06-07T21:54:33Z")
I agree, this babywise is some sick shit.
Only bone to pick-A little corporal punishment(though not on a fucking 5 month old, and not pinching, or switching!!!), can be good for the soul. Straightened my ass out many a time. I know there are as many opinions on this as there are people on this board though.
Sam
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### Author:  [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/5 "2004-06-07T22:19:55Z")
Oh and jarbaby, I seem to remember a thread on kids that devolved into a pit-style Babywise discussion about 3 weeks ago. THat’s the only reason I know anything about this strange rearing method.
Sam
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### Author:  [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/6 "2004-06-07T22:29:33Z")
[This the one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=255502&highlight=ezzo)? A search for _Ezzo_ found that and 8 other threads.
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### Author:  [@LordVor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LordVor)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/7 "2004-06-07T22:29:59Z")
> [@GaWd](#):
>
> Oh and jarbaby, I seem to remember a thread on kids that devolved into a pit-style Babywise discussion about 3 weeks ago. THat’s the only reason I know anything about this strange rearing method.
>
> Sam
[linky](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=255502)
Rather than coming out and saying “Babywise” the much more accurate title of “Load of Shit Ignorant Fucks” was used.
-lv
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### Author:  [@alice\_in\_wonderland](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alice_in_wonderland)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/8 "2004-06-07T22:34:01Z")
> [@jarbabyj](#):
>
> I could weep for what is happening to these babies, the broken spirits, the sadness, the neglect, the physical and emotional abuse, and I weep for the parents that are bullied and pressured into following this complete bullshit.
You know those God-awful stories you here sometimes about children that lose it and off their parents? I wonder…
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### Author:  [@GaWd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GaWd)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/9 "2004-06-07T22:34:45Z")
Maybe that’s why I didn’t remember the thread title 😃
Sam
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### Author:  [@liirogue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/liirogue)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/10 "2004-06-07T23:03:32Z")
It sounds (from what you have described - I haven’t read the links), that it is almost like a throwback to earlier “Christian” ways of rearing children. A class I took did a short blurb on eighteenth or nineteenth century child-rearing. She quoted from the journal of a… pastor? preacher? some man involved in the church, that described the punishments he inflicted on his child. He advocated breaking the child’s spirit, in much the same way it seems these people do. Something about trying to get them to internalize. Drat, I don’t have my notes anymore and I can’t quite remember. Anyway, that might be where these people are getting their ideas from. Though it hardly excuses the sick fucks.
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### Author:  [@vanilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vanilla)
#### Post date: [June 7, 2004, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/11 "2004-06-07T23:04:07Z")
Is this real?
Its not made up?
Oh my.
I never read anything when I gave birth except that Things To Expect series.
Physcial puishment on an infant?
Just wouldn’t work.
Yes, if a toddler tries to touch something they are not supposed to, you can pull them from it and say Bad! or something, but still; spanking or such isn’t understood that young.
I am no expert, but I fed my son when hungry, laid him dow to sleep and he slept.
I’ve never oticed this poster you mention, maybe thats good.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/12 "2004-06-08T00:31:34Z")
It reminds me of _Jane Eyre_, when she goes to the boarding school, and the porridge is burned, so they can’t eat it for breakfast. So some teachers give them lunch with bread and cheese. (They normally don’t have lunch). Then the head master comes, and says “Oh, when you give these children bread and cheese rather than burnt porridge, you may satisfy their stomachs, but you damn their souls!”
Then the children get sick, because of malnutrition and unsanitary conditions, and there’s an epidemic of sorts. And he gets sacked because a few children die.
That’s what Ezzo makes me think of.
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### Author:  [@elfkin477](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elfkin477)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/13 "2004-06-08T00:38:54Z")
Ah, so now we may know why someone was asking how to get their baby to eat less in an IMHO opinion thread a few weeks ago… They mentioned a “book” but no title.
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### Author:  [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/14 "2004-06-08T00:40:55Z")
Damn. . .just damn. I’m gobsmacked that people use the Bible as a guide to getting through life. And I’m pissed as hell that a bunch of people are coming out with Biblical diets.
But this is beyond the pale. Thirty years and this is as far as anyone has gotten.
Damn.
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### Author:  [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/15 "2004-06-08T01:04:37Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#):
>
> Damn. . .just damn. I’m gobsmacked that people use the Bible as a guide to getting through life. And I’m pissed as hell that a bunch of people are coming out with Biblical diets.
>
> But this is beyond the pale. Thirty years and this is as far as anyone has gotten.
>
> Damn.
People have been doing “Biblical” diets since time immemorial. That’s what Kosher foods are all about.
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### Author:  [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/16 "2004-06-08T02:34:16Z")
> [@vanilla](#):
>
> I am no expert, but I fed my son when hungry, laid him down to sleep and he slept. I’ve never noticed this poster you mention, maybe thats good.
Babywise isn’t a poster, it’s the shortname of Ezzo’s philosophy (the first secular book IIRC is titled ‘On Becoming Babywise’)
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### Author:  [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/17 "2004-06-08T02:53:30Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#):
>
> It reminds me of _Jane Eyre_…Then the children get sick, because of malnutrition and unsanitary conditions, and there’s an epidemic of sorts. And he gets sacked because a few children die.
>
> That’s what Ezzo makes me think of.
Except that he hasn’t been sacked, he’s still out there selling his books. There are churches that have split over this stuff, friendships destroyed, families who won’t allow their children to play with any non-Ezzo children…hell, the local Barnes & Noble still sells his books.
And when someone tries to blame him for telling them to raise their child that certain way, and the child ends up injured emotionally or damaged physically or psychologically because of it, he always says it’s because they didn’t understand him, and didn’t follow the book correctly. As far as I know, he has never been sued for his horrendous advice. Maybe somebody ought to. You know, one of the families whose child wound up with a feeding tube because his ‘feeding advice’ made the child orally aversive and they stopped eating entirely.
I understand the families a little. Just a little. I mean, when I was a Christian I wanted to make God happy, and I wanted to “do it right”. I did a lot of (what strikes me now) really stupid things in the name of “doing it right” back then, including blocking the doors of abortion clinics and going to jail for it. I sincerely believed it would make God happy, or at least, turn away His wrath. I understand how people can get sucked into this kind of thing, expecially if they are easily swayed as I was by large groups, and persuasive speakers.
Also, if it’s your first kid, you don’t necessarily know any better. Might not know that the kid that’s reaching for food on his high chair, and squishing it between his fingers, is doing what is NORMAL - and that the child needs to do those things, and needs to be permitted to do those things, in order to develop a healthy relationship with food. Smacking the kid’s hand for doing normal things will only teach him to be abnormal, maybe to his own physical detriment. By the time somebody dares to step in and say “Hey, this is NOT NORMAL, you are HARMING your child” (because you know, we get so much unsolicited advice we tend to tune it out, yet the idea of actually saying “You’re doing it wrong” is kind of against the rules)…the harm is done.
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### Author:  [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/18 "2004-06-08T03:53:15Z")
Then there’s [the Pearls](http://nogreaterjoy.org).
Christ, these people are fucking sick. How else can a baby communicate, but by crying? He can’t say, “Hey bitch, get over here and change my diaper-now!”
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### Author:  [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/19 "2004-06-08T05:02:49Z")
From the link Guin put up
> [@](#):
>
> [Poor Little Fat Girl](http://nogreaterjoy.org/index.php?id=25&backPID=2&tt_news=187)
> Yesterday, as Mike pumped gas into our van, I watched the people come and go. Several children tumbled out of the car in front of me. One girl, about 8 years old, got out of the car and began a struggle of trying to pull the legs of her shorts down from where they had wedged in between the fat around her thighs. When that project was complete, she then began pulling on her underpants, bending and turning with the limited contortions she could make, until she had them in place. And then her blouse had to be pulled out because it was also twisted and stressed to the limit by the fat. The whole painful process took several minutes while I, as well as all those in the parking area, looked on. My heart went out to the poor little fat girl.
I’m speechless… Y’know I can agree with the idea presented in the article (good healthy food, cut down on the junk give them healthy options) but just the WAY she is presenting it. Like this
> [@](#):
>
> We fostered a handicapped child for 8 years. She ate what my two daughters ate and played with them. She wasn’t fat, but she was hippy around her thighs. Her biological mom and dad were really fat. I did everything in my power to help her stay thin, because I knew that one day I would not be able to carry her, and I would lose her to an institution. Even with all my efforts, as she began going through puberty, she continued to be somewhat hippy. I am telling you this because you need to know that I do understand both sides.
That’s both sides? Y’know being ‘hippy’ isn’t necessarily a bad thing no matter what you eat yet how she writes implies that it’s not good at all nu uh.
I don’t really want to read what else she’s written she’s weirding me out.
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### Author:  [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)
#### Post date: [June 8, 2004, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/20 "2004-06-08T05:47:38Z")
> [@Chotii](#):
>
> \And when someone tries to blame him for telling them to raise their child that certain way, and the child ends up injured emotionally or damaged physically or psychologically because of it, he always says it’s because they didn’t understand him, and didn’t follow the book correctly.
Which would be hard, since he is constantly contradicting himself in his own book, according to [[http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/9108.html](http://www.babycenter.com/refcap/9108.html)]this](
[url) article.
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