# Babywise: How Have You Escaped The Pit This Long? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 7, 2004, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181 "2004-06-07T21:39:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/41 "2004-06-08T18:37:41Z")
I just wanted to point out, regarding the first quote that **Lib** provided, that even though it sounds reasonable enough, it still contains some really bad advice. It says in there that a normal interval between feedings is between 2.5-3.5 hours, and that there are special times that you may want to go sooner than that. This is incorrect; useless at best, and actively harmful at worst. I have no experience with bottle-feeding, so I can’t say how a schedule like that would work for a bottle-fed baby. But I know that with breastfed children anyway, their “schedules” vary on sometimes a day-by-day basis as they grow and their nutritional requirements change. Also, 3.5 hours between feedings is a pretty lengthy interval for a young infant, although I don’t know what age range that quote was referring to. I’d also point out that when babies experience growth spurts, they tend to want to eat very frequently, sometimes every hour or even more, including during the night. This lasts for a few days to a week, until the mother’s milk supply catches up, and then the frequency of eating slows down again for awhile. Someone who thought that their child should only be eating every so often and was following one of these “train your child early” philosophies might decide to continue to feed their baby every couple to three hours, even though the baby was hungry earlier, and as a result the child might well end up undernourished. Certainly in such a case, the mother’s milk supply would eventually become inadequate. (Milk production works on a more or less “supply and demand” model.) I take issue with any parenting philosophy that suggests there is one answer that works for every family, particularly when the answer is something that can actually be physically harmful to the child. All kids are different. Some babies might really only need to eat every three hours, and will sleep through the night at 2 months, and will never cry. Some babies need to eat every hour on the hour until they’re six months old. Some toddlers really need an afternoon nap, and some react well to a more adult-like sleeping and waking schedule. You just have to follow your own child’s cues and find out what he or she needs, and then work that into the family’s needs. It’s a balancing act, and the answer is neither, “Force your children into the schedule you want them to be on from day one”, nor “Let your kids do whatever they want whenever they want.” (Not that anyone in this thread has suggested that; I’m just expounding on my own personal parenting philosophy now.) For the record, I think that people who follow the Ezzo regimen are smoking crack or delusional or something. How anyone could continue to follow a prescribed schedule that they read about in a book, when their child is obviously failing to thrive right in front of them, is completely beyond me. Just… completely. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/42 "2004-06-08T18:43:47Z")
Also, FYI, Whatsit Jr. was nursed to sleep every night until he was around 16 months old or so. I suppose I could have left him alone to cry in some kind of effort to teach him that he needed to fall asleep on his own without my help, but, well, I didn’t really want to. I’ve always felt a special closeness with him and I didn’t want to drive a wedge into that bond. He eventually grew out of needing to nurse to sleep, and now, at the age of 2 1/2, falls asleep on his own every night. Well, on his own with his Elmo doll, his Pooh Bear, and after a drink of water and five stories, but you know what I mean. Anyway, I guess my point is that it’s not necessarily a bad thing to hold, rock, or sing your child to sleep every night if that’s what works for you. Personally I always kind of liked it. Of course I might feel differently if I had four other children, or the holding/rocking/singing were taking like three hours every night or whatever. But for us, it worked just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Cymbeline](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_cymbeline/32/9244_2.png) [@Green\_Cymbeline](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Cymbeline)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/43 "2004-06-08T18:50:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Then there’s [the Pearls](http://nogreaterjoy.org). > > Christ, these people are fucking sick. How else can a baby communicate, but by crying? He can’t say, “Hey bitch, get over here and change my diaper-now!” **Oh. My. God.** I checked out that link and happened upon this gem, [**"To Train Up a Child,"**](http://nogreaterjoy.org/fileadmin/template/Samples_books/TTUAC.pdf) a book written by the Pearls on how to “train” your child to be “obedient.” It’s really disturbing. Among the highlights: Pulling the hair of a nursing newborn!!! YOU’VE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME! > [@](#): > > **OBEDIENCE TRAINING—BITING BABIES** > One particularly painful experience of nursing mothers is the biting baby. My wife did not waste time finding a cure. When the baby bit, she pulled hair (an alternative has to be sought for bald-headed babies). Understand, the baby is not being punished, just conditioned. Start training your newborn early, lest they develop their “self-centered” tendencies! > [@](#): > > **NEVER TOO YOUNG TO TRAIN** > A newborn soon needs training. Parents that put off training until their child is old enough to discuss issues or receive explanations will find he has become a terror long before he understands the meaning of the word. As a mother attempts to lower her child into the crib, he stiffens, takes a deep breath, and bellows. The battle for control has begun in earnest. Someone is going to be conditioned. Either the tenderhearted mother will cave in to the child’s self-centered demands (training the child to get his way by crying) or he will be allowed to cry (thus learning that crying is counterproductive). Crying because of genuine physical need is the infant’s only voice to the outside world, but crying in order to manipulate others into constant servitude should never be rewarded. Otherwise, you will reinforce the child’s growing self-centeredness, which will eventually become socially intolerable. Comparing training your child to training a dog (even the “dumbest mutts” can be trained, so your kid should be able to be trained). > [@](#): > > **OBEDIENCE TRAINING** > Training does not necessarily require that the trainee be capable of reason; even mice and rats can be trained to respond to stimuli. Careful training can make a dog perfectly obedient. If a seeing-eye dog can be trained to reliably lead a blind man through the obstacles of a city street, shouldn’t a parent expect more out of an intelligent child? A dog can be trained not to touch a tasty morsel laid in front of him. Can’t a child be trained not to touch? A dog can be trained to come, stay, sit, be quiet, or fetch upon command. You may not have trained your dog that well, yet every day someone accomplishes it on the dumbest of mutts… Comparing training your child to military training… > [@](#): > > **“TENNN—HUTT!!”** > When headstrong young men join the military, the first thing they are taught is to stand still. The many hours of close-order-drill are to teach and reinforce submission of the will. “Attention!” pronounced, “TENNN—HUTT!!” is the beginning of all maneuvers. Just think of the relief that it would bring if by one command you could gain the absolute, concentrated attention of all your children… Train your child to be like a “submissive horse…” > [@](#): > > **“WHOA, HORSE”** > We live in a horse and buggy community where someone is always training a new horse. When you get into a buggy to go down a narrow, winding, state highway filled with eighteen-wheelers and logging trucks, you must have a totally submissive horse… Set up “training sessions…” using corporal punishment (note that “switch” and “spat” are alternitive words for HIT). > [@](#): > > **TRAINING NOT TO TOUCH** > There is a lot of satisfaction to be gained in training up a child. It is easy, yet challenging. When my children were able to crawl (in the case of one, roll) around the room, I set up training sessions. Try it yourself. Place an appealing object where they can reach it, maybe in a “No-No” corner or on the apple juice table (another name for the coffee table). When they spy it and make a dive for it, in a calm voice say, “No, don’t touch that.” Since they are already familiar with the word “No,” they will pause, look at you in wonder and then turn around and grab it. Switch their hand once and simultaneously say, “No.” Remember, you are not disciplining, you are training. One spat with a little switch is enough. They will again pull back their hand and consider the relationship between the object, their desire, the command, and the little reinforcing pain. It may take several times, but if you are consistent, they will learn to consistently obey, even in your absence. ---
**Author:** ![Flutterby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Flutterby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flutterby)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/44 "2004-06-08T18:52:42Z")
> [@irishgirl](#): > > **Flutterby** , the advice she gave on how to stop your kids becoming overweight was actually pretty good, even if the rest of the article was complete shite. She basically said not to buy junk food or unhealthy snacks, so your kids wouldn’t be able to eat badly at home, and to give them appropriate portions, not whatever they wanted. I agree with that. I totally agree with giving children healthy food, skipping the unhealthy snacks. If you read my post again I said > [@](#): > > I can agree with the idea presented in the article (good healthy food, cut down on the junk give them healthy options) but just the WAY she is presenting it. I’m already changing my own eating habits as my son grows and cutting back on the junk. It’s still there but nowhere near as prevalent as it was. I feel better and when my son starts eating ‘regular food’ (as opposed to pureed and formula lol) I’ll feel good that _he’s_ eating right. It’s just the TONE of the article that really bugged me. I agree with the idea behind it and am already working so that I’ll be doing that. **Lib** in general from what I’ve heard the people who Babywise works for it works because their baby happily accepts the schedule because it’s their own natural one. The problems fall out when the baby doesn’t adapt because it’s not their schedule. (I don’t know about older babies, I’m talking more the young ones) Unfortunately some parents refuse to try anything else because they feel they have to do it a certain way and with Ezzo tying it into the parents religion… well that’s a whole guilt complex right there. I keep meaning to see if the library has a copy just for me to look at. Maybe my mind keeps deliberately trying to forget… ---
**Author:** ![Chimpy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@Chimpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimpy)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/45 "2004-06-08T19:36:04Z")
> [@GaWd](#): > > I agree, this babywise is some sick shit. > > Only bone to pick-A little corporal punishment(though not on a fucking 5 month old, and not pinching, or switching!!!), can be good for the soul. Straightened my ass out many a time. I know there are as many opinions on this as there are people on this board though. > > Sam I gotta agree with you there, thats not to say I can’t be a stuborn person when it comes to dicipline but I can admit that without the odd smack i would probably be a very different and imho worse person. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/46 "2004-06-08T19:53:13Z")
> [@kung fu lola](#): > > My mom’s wisdom is that children under 2 years just aren’t capable of manipulating you - if they ask for something, _it’s because they need it_. Ezzo pits parents against their children. He attributes cognitive abilities to infants and toddlers that they simply don’t have. Oh, lola, way earlier than two. My kids had gone into full manipulation mode by about fourteen months - my daughter in particular could tantrum and pout and “hurt” to get her own way LONG before the age of two. And I don’t think its because she NEEDED apple juice instead of water. Breastfed babies have been known to refuse pumped breastmilk if mom is in the room (and take it perfectly fine if mom is out of sight) not because they NEED mom, but because they prefer mom. The general advice is “you can’t spoil a baby under six months” But that you do need to start setting _some_ limits beginning at six months. Just because your eighteen month old cries when you won’t give him a sip of your beer doesn’t mean he should get a sip of your beer (yes, eighteen month olds want to drink what Mommy and Daddy drink and are perfectly capable of having a tantrum to get it). I agree that Babywise is deserving of every pit thread it can get. But there is a LONG gap between Babywise extremist and parents who set limits for a toddler or even an eight month old. ---
**Author:** ![Chotii](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/71e660/32.png) [@Chotii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chotii)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/47 "2004-06-08T20:31:17Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > The general advice is “you can’t spoil a baby under six months” But that you do need to start setting _some_ limits beginning at six months. Just because your eighteen month old cries when you won’t give him a sip of your beer doesn’t mean he should get a sip of your beer (yes, eighteen month olds want to drink what Mommy and Daddy drink and are perfectly capable of having a tantrum to get it). > > I agree that Babywise is deserving of every pit thread it can get. But there is a LONG gap between Babywise extremist and parents who set limits for a toddler or even an eight month old. Before my twins were born, when my firstborn was about 18 months old, my oldest brother called me up and in the course of the conversation he asked me if I’d ‘spanked her yet’. And he didn’t mean a little slap on the fingers to enforce a ‘no, electrical outlets are hot!’ issue, but he meant full-out spanking. And I said no, of course not, she hadn’t done anything deserving a spanking. He proceeded to tell me about setting his kids up for a fall, so to speak…setting something within reach that they weren’t to have, and then telling them no, if you do that you’ll get a spanking…and then of course when they did do it, he spanked them. At, you know, 18 months. I was horrified then, and I’m horrified now. And I don’t think his kids are any better kids than mine, who were never spanked so young, nor in set-up situations. I will agree that an 8 month old can pitch quite a fit if you take away something it has. What I’ve had to catch myself at sometimes is taking things away arbitrarily, simply because I’m the bigger person and I can. I have sometimes relented, and given an object back, and said “You know, I can’t think of any reason you can’t have this.” I don’t see any reason to always be right simply because I’m bigger. I think it’s perfectly reasonable to relent after thought, and to explain the reason for the relenting. “I’ve changed my mind. I think it’s okay for you to have this.” I think that’s reasonable patterning for the child to see, because that’s the way real people interact. ---
**Author:** ![RitzyRae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aca169/32.png) [@RitzyRae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitzyRae)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2004, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/48 "2004-06-08T20:46:23Z")
> [@nyctea scandiaca](#): > > **Oh. My. God.** I checked out that link and happened upon this gem, [**"To Train Up a Child,"**](http://nogreaterjoy.org/fileadmin/template/Samples_books/TTUAC.pdf) a book written by the Pearls on how to “train” your child to be “obedient.” It’s really disturbing. “To Train Up a Child”: > [@](#): > > While we tried to sit and talk, the children were constantly running in and out of doors, complaining of ill treatment from the others, begging to go or stay or eat, or demanding a toy that another child would not relinquish. The mother had to continually jump up and rescue some breakable object. She said, "No, " six hundred sixty-six times in the space of two hours. Funny to mention the 666 here. Could it be some sort of sign about these people? Creepy!! ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/49 "2004-06-09T00:11:07Z")
To the folks who wonder how any parent could buy this shit, I proffer the reason (though not necessarily excuse) of sleep deprivation combined with extreme desperation. It’s well established that sleep deprivation interferes with self-control and judgment. It’s also incredibly unpleasant subjectively. Heck, it’s a well-known torture method. When you’re you’re trying to deal with your first baby, and you routinely get four hours of sleep out of twenty-four, nothing is as seductive as a smug neighbor or relative telling you about the magical system they found that allegedly made their 3-day old sleep for 12 hours straight. For what it’s worth, the one person I know who tried Babywise never followed it to the letter, and abandoned it quite quickly when it a.) went against all parenting instincts and b.) didn’t work. Hopefully most people who buy the book act in a similar way. As for me, I just put my 11 month old to sleep by lying on the floor of her bedroom so she could play, then come and cuddle, then play, then cuddle, until she was sleepy enough to be rocked in my arms and put in her crib asleep. So we’re going straight to hell, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/50 "2004-06-09T02:37:50Z")
> [@GLWasteful](#): > > Damn. . .just damn. I’m gobsmacked that people use the Bible as a guide to getting through life. And I’m pissed as hell that a bunch of people are coming out with Biblical diets. > > But this is beyond the pale. Thirty years and this is as far as anyone has gotten. > > Damn. This is NOT what the bible advocates, though I am no longer a member of the church in which I was raised (I’m a recovering baptist :D), I am still a christian (no, NOT fundie, just ordinary human who happens to believe in God), and I do still have a halfway decent memory of bible study, and NOWHERE does it say to physically punish a tiny baby, nor to feed them (or rather not feed them) in the way advocated by this psycho. Somewhere in the bible, (I said I have a HALFWAY decent memory, not a perfect one), there is a verse, or series of verses about obeying the laws of man and/or laws of common sense. In other words “use your brain, HELLO???” Something this idiot Ezzo is definitely not doing. And I’d have to agree with the Biblical diets thing. Most of the reason I left the church, people just refuse to think. Drives me nuts, God GAVE you a brain, use it!!! This isn’t a matter of being a christian, or believing in the bible. It’s a matter of him being a psychotic idiot. And there are a lot of us who are even angrier at his type of stupid than those who don’t believe in God, or believe he exists (sorry I can never remember which one Agnostic describes and which one Atheist describes). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/51 "2004-06-09T09:44:23Z")
Here’s an easy trick for that — simply consider the Greek roots. A - theism --\> without God A -gnosticism --\> without knowledge ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/52 "2004-06-09T13:22:50Z")
Posted by AerynSun “To the folks who wonder how any parent could buy this shit, I proffer the reason (though not necessarily excuse) of sleep deprivation combined with extreme desperation.” I see this book at the hospital before and after delivery some (fortunately not alot). If I see it, I usually say something like “You know, the American Academy of Pediatrics has issued a statement about some of the practices recommended in BabyWise. They are not in favor of scheduled feeds, for example.” This is about as far as I am able to go with a patient, but I think it is important to let them know that there could be a problem with the book’s recommendations that they may not be aware of. Hopefully, using an arguement “from authority” and planting that seed of doubt will allow the family to disregard Babywise practices that ‘aren’t working’ for them. [http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm](http://www.ezzo.info/Aney/aneyaap.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/53 "2004-06-09T13:45:27Z")
> [@Chotii](#): > > Before my twins were born, when my firstborn was about 18 months old, my oldest brother called me up and in the course of the conversation he asked me if I’d ‘spanked her yet’. And he didn’t mean a little slap on the fingers to enforce a ‘no, electrical outlets are hot!’ issue, but he meant full-out spanking. And I said no, of course not, she hadn’t done anything deserving a spanking. He proceeded to tell me about setting his kids up for a fall, so to speak…setting something within reach that they weren’t to have, and then telling them no, if you do that you’ll get a spanking…and then of course when they did do it, he spanked them. At, you know, 18 months. I was horrified then, and I’m horrified now. And I don’t think his kids are any better kids than mine, who were never spanked so young, nor in set-up situations. I think it is unfair to set someone up to fail whether they be a child or an adult. For example, I wouldn’t ask “Who left this icecream sandwich on the coffee table?” when I know very well who it was (this is the key- I know the answer). I prefer to say “Kid1, you left this here, now please clean up this mess.” Once I had a salesman in to quote me on some new windows. The kids (they were about 3 and 5) were kind of excited about having a stranger in the house and interrupted us. I asked them to ‘please go play in the living room’ or something. The salesman then proceeded to tell me that by asking them to do something, I was “begging for compliance” when children should be obedient to an adult’s commands. Why this guy felt he could comment on my parenting decisions seemed odd to me, but I recognised it as a philosophical difference in child-rearing. I told him that I preferred to model good behavior rather than simply demand it. ---
**Author:** ![ouisey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9fc29f/32.png) [@ouisey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouisey)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/54 "2004-06-09T17:12:57Z")
I’ve been reading about Puritans in Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer and was reminded of this Babywise controversy. It seems the Puritans believed that since an infant was born depraved and perverse it had to go have its will broken in order to achieve salvation. After reading some of the stuff these poor kids went through, it made me wonder how New Englanders ever came out normal. Its interesting (and really sad) that such an arcane philosophy should achieve popularity again. ---
**Author:** ![Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/bc8723/32.png) [@Unauthorized\_Cinnamon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unauthorized_Cinnamon)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/55 "2004-06-09T17:56:22Z")
I just happened to be at the bookstore today, and I stashed some Babywise books in the place I deemed least likely to be explored by susceptible parents: behind Bertrand Russell’s _Why I Am Not a Christian_. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2004, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/56 "2004-06-09T19:13:58Z")
> [@Ca3799](#): > > I think it is unfair to set someone up to fail whether they be a child or an adult. For example, I wouldn’t ask “Who left this icecream sandwich on the coffee table?” when I know very well who it was (this is the key- I know the answer). I prefer to say “Kid1, you left this here, now please clean up this mess.” > > Once I had a salesman in to quote me on some new windows. The kids (they were about 3 and 5) were kind of excited about having a stranger in the house and interrupted us. I asked them to ‘please go play in the living room’ or something. > > The salesman then proceeded to tell me that by asking them to do something, I was “begging for compliance” when children should be obedient to an adult’s commands. Why this guy felt he could comment on my parenting decisions seemed odd to me, but I recognised it as a philosophical difference in child-rearing. I told him that I preferred to model good behavior rather than simply demand it. MY response would have been, “I’m not paying you to comment on my parenting skills. If this is how you do business, I can go elsewhere.” What cracks me up is the Ezzo and Pearl methods of dealing with tantrums. I was a champion at throwing them as a child, and you know what my parents did? Nothing. They simply went on about their business until I cried myself into exhaustion. I learned early on that tantrums didn’t get me what I wanted. If they had smacked me, or screamed, I would have learned that I could get their attention by pitching a fit. Instead, I learned that I wouldn’t even accomplish that. ---
**Author:** ![GLWasteful](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f05b48/32.png) [@GLWasteful](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GLWasteful)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/57 "2004-06-10T00:32:23Z")
Well, shit the bed. I had forgotten that I’d even posted to this thread. Now, I said that I’m gobsmacked because I am not a believer. And the biblical diets thing was a blurb on a local news program within the last few days. Said blurb of course told me that the writers of the bible had no experience as dieticians. And it wasn’t kosher, sounded primarily like some sort of veganism for Jesus thing. Pissed me off because I fervently wish that people would pay attention, always to be disappointed. And I’m still angry as hell that there exist idiots who feel that the teachings of Ezzo are in any way shape or form to be not only embraced, but that they should buy his books. That said, I don’t know that I agree with the actions of **AerynSun**. While it appalls me to no end that this SOB continues to peddle his psychosis, I wouldn’t want the tables turned, and me unable to find a book that I might want to buy because it had been hidden by someone who disagreed with it. I understand your feelings and actions, though. ---
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/58 "2004-06-10T01:00:40Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Here’s an easy trick for that — simply consider the Greek roots. > > A - theism → without God > > A -gnosticism → without knowledge Aha!!! Thanks **Liberal**. That does help. ---
**Author:** ![iampunha](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/74df32/32.png) [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/59 "2004-06-10T02:09:55Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > What cracks me up is the Ezzo and Pearl methods of dealing with tantrums. I was a champion at throwing them as a child, and you know what my parents did? Nothing. They simply went on about their business until I cried myself into exhaustion. I learned early on that tantrums didn’t get me what I wanted. I did just that a week or two ago with B’s niece. I’d been left watching four kids (two girls were B’s nieces, two boys were unrelated IIRC) on a day off from school (massive storms the day before). One niece really wanted to play school. Really really really. I didn’t, and the other three kids didn’t. So she started pouting and screaming and flailing about a bit. At first I tried to console her and such, but after about five or ten minutes or suggesting other stuff, I just let her be and instructed the two boys to do the same (her sister was another issue. I managed to get her to play upstairs). After 45 minutes, maybe an hour, the tantrum niece stopped crying (it was really minor crying and flailing for the last fifteen minutes). I told her that crying and carrying on like that wouldn’t get her what she wanted. I have no idea if she’d gotten her way with her mother, but she hasn’t since thrown a tantrum. If she does, I am guessing she will get the same response from me. ---
**Author:** ![Green\_Bean](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/green_bean/32/1760_2.png) [@Green\_Bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Green_Bean)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2004, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181/60 "2004-06-10T06:51:56Z")
> [@ouisey](#): > > I’ve been reading about Puritans in Albion’s Seed: Four British Folkways in America by David Hackett Fischer and was reminded of this Babywise controversy. It seems the Puritans believed that since an infant was born depraved and perverse it had to go have its will broken in order to achieve salvation. After reading some of the stuff these poor kids went through, it made me wonder how New Englanders ever came out normal. > > Its interesting (and really sad) that such an arcane philosophy should achieve popularity again. Was that the book where the that describles how they used to swaddle the kids and hang them on the wall? (Actually, it’s not as odd as it may seem. No playpens in those days. They would swaddle up the babies papoose-style, and if they needed to keep them out of harm’s way for a little while, they’d just hang them on the wall. I don’t think they left them there all day or anything. I’ll bet Ezzo would approve of leaving your baby hanging on the wall between scheduled feedings.) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/babywise-how-have-you-escaped-the-pit-this-long/249181.md?page=4)