# Bachelor in Paradise - Misconduct? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 12, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744 "2017-06-12T01:19:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/21 "2017-06-15T15:50:53Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I’ll wait for some facts before drawing conclusions, but I think there’s a limit to what a consent clause in a contract can allow and it’s the producers who are at jeopardy here. Follow [this sidebar link](http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/15/bachelor-in-paradise-contestant-contract-corinne-olympios-demario-jackson/?adid=sidebarwidget-most-popular) from the link you posted earlier. It doesn’t look like the producers are at jeopardy, since she waived her right to sue them over “negligence, personal injury (including without limitation, any injuries arising out of the transmission of a sexually transmitted disease or unwelcome/unlawful contact or other interaction among participants)” ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/22 "2017-06-15T16:06:36Z")
Appears that the 2 contestants have both lawyered up and are making statements in the media, to attempt to protect their fame hungry reputations. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/23 "2017-06-15T16:15:37Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Follow [this sidebar link](http://www.tmz.com/2017/06/15/bachelor-in-paradise-contestant-contract-corinne-olympios-demario-jackson/?adid=sidebarwidget-most-popular) from the link you posted earlier. It doesn’t look like the producers are at jeopardy, since she waived her right to sue them over “negligence, personal injury (including without limitation, any injuries arising out of the transmission of a sexually transmitted disease or unwelcome/unlawful contact or other interaction among participants)” If that kind of thing holds up in court then I’m not seeing anything but a possible charge of Sleazy Television Production. If that was illegal there’d be a lot fewer channels. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/24 "2017-06-15T16:27:32Z")
> [@Grrr](#): > > My take away is: Two drunk people decide to have sex, and for some reason it’s the man’s fault. > > I hope that’s not what’s going on here. I actually asked this question in one of the courses I took about sexual assault (interestingly in Canada, it’s not no-means-no, the absence of a yes is also no, and drunk/drugged cannot consent). The rule is, it is up to the instigator to confirm that they have consent (and that the other person is capable of consenting). In this case, as I understand it (I don’t watch the show) the video shows the male first holding her up (she was unconscious and needed to be held out if the water) wgile having intercourse with her, and then pulling the clearly unconscious woman out of the hot tub and performing oral sex on her - the whole time she was not responsive. \*\*IF \*\*that’s the case, that is rape. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/25 "2017-06-15T16:37:04Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > the video shows This video will never see the light of day, unless some stupid intern at ABC gets his hands on it and decides to leak it. My guess though is that the production staff all watched it before they left Mexico. ---
**Author:** ![Ellen\_Cherry](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ellen_cherry/32/3600_2.png) [@Ellen\_Cherry](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ellen_Cherry)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/26 "2017-06-15T17:01:59Z")
> [@PastTense](#): > > Existing thread: > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20279119](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=20279119) Threads merged. Proceed! ---
**Author:** ![Grrr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grrr/32/146_2.png) [@Grrr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grrr)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/27 "2017-06-15T17:07:24Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I actually asked this question in one of the courses I took about sexual assault (interestingly in Canada, it’s not no-means-no, the absence of a yes is also no, and drunk/drugged cannot consent). > > The rule is, it is up to the instigator to confirm that they have consent (and that the other person is capable of consenting). > > In this case, as I understand it (I don’t watch the show) the video shows the male first holding her up (she was unconscious and needed to be held out if the water) wgile having intercourse with her, and then pulling the clearly unconscious woman out of the hot tub and performing oral sex on her - the whole time she was not responsive. > > \*\*IF \*\*that’s the case, that is rape. If that’s what happened, I would agree it’s rape also. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/28 "2017-06-15T19:15:59Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > I actually asked this question in one of the courses I took about sexual assault (interestingly in Canada, it’s not no-means-no, the absence of a yes is also no, and drunk/drugged cannot consent). > > The rule is, it is up to the instigator to confirm that they have consent (and that the other person is capable of consenting). > > In this case, as I understand it (I don’t watch the show) the video shows the male first holding her up (she was unconscious and needed to be held out if the water) wgile having intercourse with her, and then pulling the clearly unconscious woman out of the hot tub and performing oral sex on her - the whole time she was not responsive. > > \*\*IF \*\*that’s the case, that is rape. Is that what the law in Mexico says? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/29 "2017-06-15T19:34:51Z")
> [@Poysyn](#): > > In this case, as I understand it (I don’t watch the show) the video shows the male first holding her up (she was unconscious and needed to be held out if the water) wgile having intercourse with her, and then pulling the clearly unconscious woman out of the hot tub and performing oral sex on her - the whole time she was not responsive. > > \*\*IF \*\*that’s the case, that is rape. I haven’t seen mention of that kind of detail before. Where did it come from? ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/30 "2017-06-15T19:40:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is that what the law in Mexico says? This isn’t going to see any sort of criminal prosecution, it will all be civil and end in some sort of settlement between ABC, Olympios and Jackson. Which will include some sort of monetary amount, as well as changes to the shows production policies. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/31 "2017-06-15T19:43:55Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I haven’t seen mention of that kind of detail before. Where did it come from? Similar but different account from the guy. > **[DeMario Jackson Wants 'Bachelor In Paradise' Footage Released](https://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/06/demario-jackson-bachelor-in-paradise-footage-video-released-corinne-olympios/)** > > DeMario Jackson says he wants the video footage that's in question for alleged misconduct on "Bachelor In Paradise" released. > [@](#): > > Olympios and Jackson started drinking at the bar and Olympios ended up jumping on his lap. They were said to be making out with a lot of “intense rubbing.” TMZ also reported that Jackson remembered Olympios suggesting they head into the pool, taking off their clothes, “rubbing, touching and fingering.” According to the media site, Jackson said Olympios put her genitals in his face and he “began licking”. And another account: > [@](#): > > Corinne was reportedly the aggressor in the situation, and both were equally drunk. Producers asked both DeMario and Corinne after the fact if their hookup was consensual, and both reportedly said yes. Corinne also made out with 4 other guys on the first day, some before and some after DeMario. They were Derek, Iggy, Nick, and Alex. On all the occasions, Corinne was the one who would go up to them aggressively and playfully and start making out with them. Was told that Corinne, although very intoxicated, was never at any point “black out drunk.” In response to reports that she had no idea what was happening or what she was doing, was told “that couldn’t be further from the truth.” I was told Corinne made numerous references after the hookups to how her boyfriend was going to be upset with her. After the hookups, DeMario and Corinne both filmed ITM’s, the hookup was discussed, and producers never brought this up as a situation that was inappropriate. Corinne and DeMario’s hook up was going to be a storyline on the show, just like any hook up on any season. It wasn’t until a rogue producer came forward to the show claiming that they saw the hook up as inappropriate and filed a complaint, did all hell break loose. I was told if the producer didn’t come forward with the complaint, everything would’ve continued as planned. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/32 "2017-06-15T20:04:47Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Similar but different account from the guy. > > [DeMario Jackson Wants Bachelor In Paradise Video Footage Released](http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/06/demario-jackson-bachelor-in-paradise-footage-video-released-corinne-olympios/) > > And another account: Yeah, I saw the accounts that (without detail) said the woman initiated the actions. I don’t believe that I know anything about what actually happened there right now. ---
**Author:** ![E-DUB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/e-dub/32/403_2.png) [@E-DUB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-DUB)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/33 "2017-06-15T22:03:45Z")
Is “I was too drunk to tell she was too drunk.” a defense? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/34 "2017-06-15T22:14:36Z")
> [@E-DUB](#): > > Is “I was too drunk to tell she was too drunk.” a defense? If they were both too drunk but willing, wouldnt it be sexist to charge the male but not the female? ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/35 "2017-06-15T22:18:02Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > If they were both too drunk but willing, wouldnt it be sexist to charge the male but not the female? Yes. You think that’s going to help? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/36 "2017-06-15T22:22:14Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > Yes. You think that’s going to help? On the news this morning they played a vid clip of the woman in the pool with a man I believe is the same man involved in this incident. Other women were lounging around the pool. She quite voluntarily took off her top (on camera) and hugged him. The women were giggling. Of course, this doesn’t mean that she couldn’t be raped but it does show that she was down for some sexual activity. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/37 "2017-06-15T22:29:33Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > On the news this morning they played a vid clip of the woman in the pool with a man I believe is the same man involved in this incident. Other women were lounging around the pool. She quite voluntarily took off her top (on camera) and hugged him. The women were giggling. Of course, this doesn’t mean that she couldn’t be raped but it does show that she was down for some sexual activity. I don’t know how this will play out if we presume she initiated sexual contact while drunk beyond the ability to provide consent, and he was also. But there will be plenty of people claiming he sexually assaulted her in that circumstance. Not much point in arguing it out in this thread because none of us have facts. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/38 "2017-06-15T22:31:36Z")
Very true…in not taking his side but I just think its ironic that we immediately blame the male when either one might have been the aggressor. Or both. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/39 "2017-06-15T22:58:48Z")
It’s quite amazing it took The Bachelor this long to get into trouble. Fame hungry people + booze + hookups with strangers = big trouble They’ve been very lucky they got away with it for several seasons. This incident may cost them millions because both parties have lawyered up. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2017, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744/40 "2017-06-16T03:27:27Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Very true…in not taking his side but I just think its ironic that we immediately blame the male when either one might have been the aggressor. Or both. Speaking from US law, it is my understanding that it’s impossible for two people to have sex if they are both incapacitated. Drunk sex is only rape if one of the parties is incapacitated, meaning physically incapable of consent. We’re talking complete disorientation, unconsciousness, or the inability to form words. If both parties are in this incapacitated state, sex ain’t happening. It seems to me the cultural gender bias is ameliorated by the legal definition itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bachelor-in-paradise-misconduct/788744.md?page=3)