# Back in the old days, how did gays manage to meet each other? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 1, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390 "2004-11-01T20:07:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/1 "2004-11-01T20:07:27Z")
Lets say, pre-1960s. How did gay men and women at the time manage to identify themselves to each other and hook up? ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/2 "2004-11-01T20:10:53Z")
They were the people being beaten. Look for other bruised and battered people in the streets. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/3 "2004-11-01T20:41:46Z")
There were code words and signals. Things like wearing a red tie, asking if someone was a friend of Dorothy, like that. Certain parts of some towns were known to be where “lowlifes” and members of the _demimonde_ hung out. Once you met a few homosexuals, they could introduce you to others in their circle. Lots of word of mouth. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/4 "2004-11-01T20:57:03Z")
There were numerous social clubs and bars for men that were recognized as “queer” in the late 1800’s and early 1900’s in the big cities. Some policemen made a good living by extracting “no hassle protection” from them. I think several books have been written on these hangouts and clubs. Don’t know what people did for casual hookups before that, although I imagine there have always been bordellos that would cater to a gay clientele since bordellos existed. I’m guessing that gay men (and women possibly) may have accumulated social circles comprised of like minded friends and associates and that’s how they met each other. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/5 "2004-11-01T21:16:15Z")
There definitely were bars where gay people congregated. In north Santa Monica there’s a famous one called the Friendship, which has been functioning in that capacity since the days of WWII. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/6 "2004-11-01T21:29:13Z")
You might want to take a look at George Chauncey’s “Gay New York”, which is a look at gay life in New York City from 1890-1940. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/7 "2004-11-01T21:34:48Z")
> [@astro](#): > > Don’t know what people did for casual hookups before that In addition to clubs that were known to cater to a guy clientele, there were public restrooms, and even secluded areas that “everyone” knew were gay hang-outs. Much like prostitution and drug-trafficing, the police could try to keep it out of sight, but not eliminate it. ---
**Author:** ![Maastricht](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a88e57/32.png) [@Maastricht](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maastricht)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/8 "2004-11-01T21:49:18Z")
Marcel Proust’s (who was himself gay) books Sodom and Gomorra I and II (of the Remembrance of Things Past-series) deal with the gay scene in 1900 Paris. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/9 "2004-11-01T21:59:54Z")
I’ve seen grafitti in public restrooms for gay hook-ups. That tradition probably goes back a ways. Haj ---
**Author:** ![mks57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b9bd4f/32.png) [@mks57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mks57)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/10 "2004-11-01T21:59:57Z")
Public parks and restrooms were popular in many big cities. There were bars that were known to have an unusual clientele. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/11 "2004-11-01T22:01:59Z")
Clang! Clang! Clang! ---
**Author:** ![Early\_Out](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Early\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Early_Out)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/12 "2004-11-01T22:10:45Z")
Hey, folks, it ain’t all “bars and bathrooms,” you know! Gays sometimes hooked up in much the same way they do today. A gay guy meets someone at work he likes. They strike up a friendship. They go places and do things together. Gradually, each realizes that his feelings go beyond mere friendship. A more intimate relationship develops. There are a lot of subtle cues involved, of course - duration of eye contact, body language, turns of phrase. It isn’t really necessary for someone to shout, “Hey, I’m queer! Wanna do it?” ---
**Author:** ![Josh\_dePlume](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Josh\_dePlume](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Josh_dePlume)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2004, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/13 "2004-11-01T23:23:17Z")
> [@Otto](#): > > There were code words and signals. Things like wearing a red tie, asking if someone was a friend of Dorothy, like that. Asking if someone is a friend of Dorothy means THAT? That explains a lot. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/14 "2004-11-02T00:52:14Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > I’ve seen grafitti in public restrooms for gay hook-ups. That tradition probably goes back a ways. Yes, quite a ways back. There are similar grafitti in the ruins of the ancient Roman city of Pompey, which was suddenly engulfed by a volcano (and thus preserved) 1925 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/15 "2004-11-02T03:00:08Z")
I’ll second George Chauncey’s book. Very well done and documented. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2004, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/16 "2004-11-02T04:24:26Z")
> [@Josh\_dePlume](#): > > Asking if someone is a friend of Dorothy means THAT? That explains a lot. The prevailing theory is that “friend of Dorothy” was a reference to Judy Garland in The Wizard of Oz, and of course all the gays just _loooove_ Judy Garland (actually I do, total JG queen here). Supposedly during one of the military’s crackdowns on perverts in the 50s the investigators heard the expression and spent many man-hours and taxpayer dollars trying to track down this mysterious “Dorothy” who was friend to all the homosexuals. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2004, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/17 "2004-11-03T22:17:58Z")
There were always gay bars in every city, invariably in the seediest part of town. The owners had to pay protection money to the vice squad just to keep the place open; if they didn’t, the place would get busted, and the patrons would either get beaten up or sent off to jail. Sometimes their names, addresses and pictures would appear in the local paper. This had the result of ruining people’s lives, even leading to suicide. There was no such thing as being “out” back then; everybody was closeted, except for a few drag queens. Most of the guys were married, with families, and being “outed” was a really horrible situation. Similar to the “friends of Dorothy” euphemism, I remember someone asking me whether I had a “flair for design.” I actually \*\*did \*\*have a flair for design, which obviously complicated matters. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/18 "2004-11-04T00:23:16Z")
Add my vote to Chauncey’s book. There were notable gay hangouts in New York, and those who came to the city quickly learned where they were. Some of the YMCAs, for instance, were congregating places. 42nd Street was also a hangout (in **Brining Up Baby** , Cary Grant, caught in Katherine Hepburn’s robe mumbled “I’m just waiting for a bus on 42nd Street.” That was a common excuse when the police tried to hassle gay men in the area.) One interesting way was to meet someone and, while making small talk, ask them “Do you know where we can find a gay time?” Straight men didn’t know that particular meaning of the word yet, so the answer was a pretty good shibboleth. ---
**Author:** ![DantesTenth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@DantesTenth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DantesTenth)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/19 "2004-11-04T01:55:27Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > There were always gay bars in every city, invariably in the seediest part of town. (snip) WRONG! IN SF at least, one of the most expensive hotels had a bar (I don’t recall either the hotel or bar - this is from a local (KQED) documentary on the pre-Stonewall (which was, from what I’ve heard, one hell of nasty dive) gay scene in SF). The hotel got new management around the 50’s, and the bartender would discreetly place a card reading (something like) “The management no longer appreciates your patronage” along with the drinks. And to say anything as broad as ‘all \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ were in “seedy” areas’ is really reaching; unless you limit yourself to very specific items - ‘all fish can survive underwater’ would _probably_ be safe, but anything resembling ‘all homosexual/heterosexual \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ are seedy’ is unconscionable - I’ve been in biker bars, druggie bars, yuppie bars, ‘old money’ bars, strip joints, and several real dives (they’re the best - sleaze with no pretensions) bars - all straight, but all I can conclude is ‘all straight bars are straight’. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2004, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390/20 "2004-11-04T04:44:08Z")
“Are you _musical?_” “I play the piano. Why do you ask?” “Never mind.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-in-the-old-days-how-did-gays-manage-to-meet-each-other/272390.md?page=2)