# Back to Gitmo: When The Heck Will The Prisoners' Fates Be Decided? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 12, 2003, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124 "2003-09-12T03:11:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![bri1600bv](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9fc29f/32.png) [@bri1600bv](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bri1600bv)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/41 "2003-09-13T15:55:04Z")
The people in Gitmo are not accused of crimes. They are combatants as in a war. They’re also not US citizens. I don’t think there’s a precedent for trying non US citizens in criminal courts in the US for actions taken completely outside of the US. So the for the “judiciary” to be involved is just silly. Witness the fiasco over Mousaoui (sp). That’s one guy. Do you expect the US to put on multi year long circuses for each of the accused? I think they are most similar to POWs. But you’re right, the war is not over, and never will be “over”. They will rot in jail until too feeble to do any harm. I think it’s ludicrous to try them in criminal courts. The only evidence is that they were picked up in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban. But they would probably be smart enough to say they weren’t, they were just bystanders who were “abducted” by the US. Regardless, they’re being well fed and well treated, at least according to the people they’ve let go. Supposedly they are even gaining weight. Did that happen in the gulags, I wonder? I wonder if you’re as empathetic to Americans killed by terrorists as you are toward the Arab fighters in Afghanistan who tried so hard to kill them and are now getting fat (and worshipping Allah 5 times a day via piped in prayers - do they have that in Gulags too?) in Gitmo. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/42 "2003-09-13T16:13:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bri1600bv \* > **Do you expect the US to put on multi year long circuses for each of the accused?** Yes, or release them. That’s exactly what I expect, and what anyone accused of anything by the US should be able to expect. It’s one of the many things that is supposed to separate us from the “tyrannical regimes” that we are threatening to obliterate the world over. We don’t make determinations as to whether someone does or doesn’t get a trial based on the media circus that might surround it. Much like the discussion in the Free Speech thread, it doesn’t matter whether guaranteeing our rights is bothersome or not, they still have to be protected. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/43 "2003-09-13T16:18:43Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bri1600bv \* > **Regardless, they’re being well fed and well treated, at least according to the people they’ve let go. Supposedly they are even gaining weight. Did that happen in the gulags, I wonder?** I almost let this BS slide, but it’s just too ignorant to let go. So, are you fucking kidding me? Do you think they’re happy to give up their freedom, their families, and their rights, for life, just to “put on a few pounds”? ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/44 "2003-09-13T16:29:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*I almost let this BS slide, but it’s just too ignorant to let go. > So, are you fucking kidding me? Do you think they’re happy to give up their freedom, their families, and their rights, for life, just to “put on a few pounds”? \*\* Oh, my heart goes out for the violent ones. I am weeping uncontrollably, as I type this reply. 😃 They should have thought about this scenario before they joined the criminal gang of thugs, known as Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Why is it that some people insist that certain people unresponsible for their actions ? Are these people mentally incompetant fools or something ? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/45 "2003-09-13T16:54:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daisy Cutter \* > \*\*Oh, my heart goes out for the violent ones. I am weeping uncontrollably, as I type this reply. 😃 > > They should have thought about this scenario before they joined the criminal gang of thugs, known as Al Qaeda and the Taliban. > > Why is it that some people insist that certain people unresponsible for their actions ? Are these people mentally incompetant fools or something ? \*\* It’s not that difficult of a concept to grasp. Every last one of these people is innocent until proven guilty. If there is so much as a shred of evidence that they are guilty of anything, feel free to prosecute the hell out of them. Putting someone through a lifetime of judicial limbo is something we used to denounce other countries for. Now we’re the bastards. I’m not a big fan of your stances on much of anything, Daisy, but if you ever get arrested for anything, whether you are guilty or not, be advised that I’ll be just as angry if you don’t get a fair and expedient trial. Maybe some of my colleagues are right after all. Some of you don’t seem to care about the rights of people who don’t speak or look like us. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/46 "2003-09-13T17:05:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\* > Some of you don’t seem to care about the rights of people who don’t speak or look like us. \*\* Well, in my case this certainly wouldn’t apply, since I believe that John Walker Lindh got off far too easy, and should have been treated in the same manner as these other thugs. Last I checked, he looked like _us_ and spoke like _us_, at least as soon as he shaved that werewolf beard off his face. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/47 "2003-09-13T17:16:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Daisy Cutter \* > \*\*Well, in my case this certainly wouldn’t apply, since I believe that John Walker Lindh got off far too easy, and should have been treated in the same manner as these other thugs. Last I checked, he looked like _us_ and spoke like _us_, at least as soon as he shaved that werewolf beard off his face. \*\* Okay, just so we’re on the same page. Can you tell me, in detail, what you think should have happened with Lindh, from the moment he was captured? A step by step summary of what the entire process should have been, in your opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/48 "2003-09-13T17:44:29Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*Okay, just so we’re on the same page. Can you tell me, in detail, what you think should have happened with Lindh, from the moment he was captured? A step by step summary of what the entire process should have been, in your opinion. \*\* I will be the first person to admit, that I am far too unknowledgable on the issues of various laws, and how they would pertain to Lindh, so me giving a step by step summary wouldn’t be of much use to anybody. Even the so called _experts_ have argued this issue back and forth. I certainly don’t think he should have received a plea deal, and I find it strange that treason charges were not brought against him. If there was no lawful basis for doing so (I am not a lawyer), then something is wrong with the treason law, imho. If siding with the enemy and taking up arms against your country is not treason, then I am not sure what treason is. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/49 "2003-09-13T17:53:46Z")
I’m not looking for a legal opinion by any means, as I’m not a lawyer either. Simply something like: Day 1: Captured Day 2: Locked up in Gitmo Day 159861: Allowed 1 minute with a lawyer Day 4986856871655: His corpse is given a trial Etc… ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/50 "2003-09-13T18:03:36Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*I’m not looking for a legal opinion by any means, as I’m not a lawyer either. > > Simply something like: > > Day 1: Captured > Day 2: Locked up in Gitmo > Day 159861: Allowed 1 minute with a lawyer > Day 4986856871655: His corpse is given a trial > > Etc… \*\* Giving a detailed timeline like that sounds like something that would take an awful amount of time, time that I would prefer to not to waste on the likes of him. My detailed timeline would be pretty much the same as the actual timeline of the events that have transpired. I just think he should have been charged with more severe crimes, and given a harsher sentence, as I stated in my previous reply. If there was no lawful basis for this or not I do not know. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/51 "2003-09-13T18:07:36Z")
Ah, so you don’t have a problem with his trial, just with the outcome of it. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/52 "2003-09-13T18:14:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*Ah, so you don’t have a problem with his trial, just with the outcome of it. Is that correct? \*\* Well, i definitely have a problem with the outcome obviously, something I have previously stated. I believe he should have been stripped of his American citizenship and put in Gitmo with the other thugs, but then again, I am no lawyer, so I do not know if there is any legal precedance that allows for this. I would assume there is not, since he is still an American citizen. American “Talibans” shouldn’t be treated any different than foreign “Talibans”, if that is what you were trying to ask me. ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/53 "2003-09-13T18:16:20Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by bri1600bv \* > The people in Gitmo are not accused of crimes. They are combatants as in a war. No, that is not what the US government is saying but it is irrelevant, the fact is they are being denied due process of law which is just inadmissible. [quote] They’re also not US citizens. I don’t think there’s a precedent for trying non US citizens in criminal courts in the US for actions taken completely outside of the US. [quote] This just shows the extent of your ignorance which is nothing to be proud of. > [@](#): > > So the for the “judiciary” to be involved is just silly. How so? Care to explain your understanding of the purpose of the judiciary? Are you saying non-citizens are not entitled to due process and judicial guarantees? > [@](#): > > Witness the fiasco over Mousaoui (sp). That’s one guy. Do you expect the US to put on multi year long circuses for each of the accused? What fiasco. Justice being done is no fiasco. Or are you saying the only valid outcome is a swift guilty verdict and execution the next morning? > [@](#): > > I think they are most similar to POWs. The US government has explicitly said the opposite. > [@](#): > > But you’re right, the war is not over, and never will be “over”. They will rot in jail until too feeble to do any harm. Wonderful. For people who have not been determined to be guilty of anything. Just fucking wonderful. > [@](#): > > I think it’s ludicrous to try them in criminal courts. The only evidence is that they were picked up in Afghanistan fighting for the Taliban. But they would probably be smart enough to say they weren’t, they were just bystanders who were “abducted” by the US. So the fucking truth is that the USA does not have enough evidence to prove they are guilty? > [@](#): > > Regardless, they’re being well fed and well treated, at least according to the people they’ve let go. How fucking wonderful of the USA to feed the people it is imprisoning illegally. Just how fucking great can a country be? > [@](#): > > I wonder if you’re as empathetic to Americans killed by terrorists as you are toward the Arab fighters in Afghanistan who tried so hard to kill them and are now getting fat (and worshipping Allah 5 times a day via piped in prayers - do they have that in Gulags too?) in Gitmo. If it is so clear these people are guilty of trying to kill Americans, why don’t we show the evidence to a court of law? Why can’t a court of law see the fucking evidence? I abide by a very American principle: they are innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/54 "2003-09-13T18:20:25Z")
Daisy Cutter, I’ve tried numerous times to get you to factually answer a single question, and you have yet to do so. I’m going to make it clear as crystal, and would prefer a yes or a no as an answer. **Do you have a problem with the fact that Lindh was given a trial?** ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/55 "2003-09-13T18:25:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*Daisy Cutter, > **Do you have a problem with the fact that Lindh was given a trial?** \*\* Yes, I do. I have already stated that American “talibans” should be treated no different than foreign “talibans”. I would think that my answer was pretty clear already. But, if the fact that he was an American citizen had something to do with his trial, while the Gitmo detainees are foreigners, then this is a different situation, depending upon how the govt interperts various laws. I don’t neccesarily agree with these laws in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/56 "2003-09-13T18:30:41Z")
Wow, I think Daisy Cutters finally shows her true colors. So US citizens should be granted the rights of our ‘civilized’ law, and to the rest of the world: “Fuck you”!?? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/57 "2003-09-13T18:35:26Z")
So based on all of the teeth pulling, here is that timeline that would have taken you “an awful amount of time”: Day 1: Captured Day 2: Locked up in Gitmo Day X\*: Will be “dealt with” - X=the day when there are zero terrorist left in the world, thus officially ending the “War on Terror”. Wow, that **did** take a lot of time! ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/58 "2003-09-13T18:35:42Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kinthalis \* > \*\*Wow, I think Daisy Cutters finally shows her true colors. > > So US citizens should be granted the rights of our ‘civilized’ law, and to the rest of the world: “Fuck you”!?? \*\* It is fairly obvious that certain people have reading comprehension problems here. May I suggest [www.HOP.com](http://www.HOP.com), inorder to straighten out your confusion ? What part about - - - American “talibans” should be treated no differently than foreign “talibans” do you not understand ? If Lindh was treated differently than other detainees, then let me state for the umpteenth time, that i do not agree with this. ---
**Author:** ![Daisy\_Cutter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Daisy\_Cutter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daisy_Cutter)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/59 "2003-09-13T18:37:36Z")
My link should be [http://www.HOP.com](http://www.HOP.com) ---
**Author:** ![Kinthalis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kinthalis/32/16084_2.png) [@Kinthalis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kinthalis)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2003, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124/60 "2003-09-13T18:40:09Z")
**Daisy Cutter** : You are saying that you wished Lindh been treated the same as those darn foreign Talibans, right? How ARE those ‘illeagal combatants’ being treated? Not how our laws (both Us and international) agree they should be treated. How a ‘civilized’ country should be treating them. According to you, that’s perfectly fine. Hence my statement that indeed you have ‘shown your true colors’. I think eveyrone on this thread can deduce just what type of person you are. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-gitmo-when-the-heck-will-the-prisoners-fates-be-decided/201124.md?page=4)