# Back to School Supply lists in Primary Education are Lame **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 17, 2017, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873 "2017-08-17T14:47:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![delphica](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9a140/32.png) [@delphica](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/delphica)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/41 "2017-08-18T12:35:14Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > My sister is having her daughter/my niece start Kindergarten in a few weeks and they gave her one of these lists. What is most bothersome about it, there is some type of brand loyalty going on. Everything on it has to be name brand. I know my sister will only get my niece the best, but it bothers her and worries me about the school system that REQUIRES premium products for students… It absolutely must be 3M, Crayola, Elmer’s etc. Anyone else hear of this? I have not heard of this as a true REQUIREMENT. The only things I can imagine are 1. for some products, the teacher may feel that it’s better to have a baseline of quality, rather than have stuff in the classroom that is too poor quality to be used. One thing that always mystifies me is crayons. Unless we’re talking about art store crayons for artists, Crayola really are better than most off-brand crayons. When my kid gets the restaurant kids-menu “generic crayon pack,” I, THE ADULT, am complaining (in my head) that they are too waxy to color with. I have also learned the hard way that off-brand washable markers are not in fact washable. 2. for supplies that are pooled, I can imagine a teacher wanting to avoid the headache of the kids fussing about who gets stuck with the low quality thing in the box (or the opposite, if there are one or two awesome sets of art crayons). I guess this is a numbers game – if there was no real majority of any one brand, then maybe it would less of a thing, but odds are the 18 out of 20 boxes of crayons are going to be Crayola, and two will be waxy Crayon-ola. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/42 "2017-08-18T13:24:28Z")
And here I thought this was going to be about how old-fashioned that list of school supplies is for 2017, when so much schoolwork is presumably done on the computer or tablet. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/43 "2017-08-18T13:31:41Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > Who is using crayons, colored pencils, and other similar stuff in the fifth grade? Are they doing Venn diagrams or something similar? We were way the heck beyond drawing pictures (especially any that required crayons) in the fifth grade. Even in junior high I remember sometimes making posters or signs or other projects that required a bit of color. You know, “Make a poster showing at least four different Native American dwellings” or “Prepare visual aids for your speech about France” and that sort of thing. If the kids have some crayons/markers/colored pencils in their desk then that’s something they can work on while in class. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/44 "2017-08-18T13:49:43Z")
> [@anomalous1](#): > > My sister is having her daughter/my niece start Kindergarten in a few weeks and they gave her one of these lists. What is most bothersome about it, there is some type of brand loyalty going on. Everything on it has to be name brand. I know my sister will only get my niece the best, but it bothers her and worries me about the school system that REQUIRES premium products for students… It absolutely must be 3M, Crayola, Elmer’s etc. Anyone else hear of this? What happens if you send your kidlet to school with off-brand supplies? The idea of “send the kid to school with all her supplies, pool them together and the teacher doles them out as necessary” seems bizarre to me. I want to provide for my own child first, at whatever level of quality that seems appropriate to me. Thus I would prefer my child use the supplies I bought for her. I can kick into a fund for children whose parents can’t afford it/children who run out/children who lose their stuff, but part of school is learning to take care of your own stuff. Not somebody else’s. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/45 "2017-08-18T13:56:22Z")
I can see the sense in pooling stuff, especially at younger grades–it’s just easier for everyone. Dealing with the kids that can’t find their super special personal supplies when you need them is not worth the headache. But what I’d really like is for the district to provide the supplies directly and no need to go through the process of elaborately collecting and doling them back out. I’m okay with kids providing the things that become personal property/go home with them–binders, folders, etc. But stuff used in the classroom should be provided by the classroom. But that’s a decision that has to be made at the school board level. As a stopgap, PTA’s could fund it. ---
**Author:** ![ZonexandScout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zonexandscout/32/544_2.png) [@ZonexandScout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZonexandScout)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/46 "2017-08-18T14:05:33Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > Even in junior high I remember sometimes making posters or signs or other projects that required a bit of color. You know, “Make a poster showing at least four different Native American dwellings” or “Prepare visual aids for your speech about France” and that sort of thing. If the kids have some crayons/markers/colored pencils in their desk then that’s something they can work on while in class. I do indeed remember making some visual aids, but they were all for homework. (“Make a poster showing this scientific principle. They are due on Monday.”) I certainly don’t remember sitting around for an hour or so drawing with crayons in the fifth grade classroom. And in most cases, we were permitted to use any media we cared to use (markers, paint, collage, etc.) It was actually a pretty big deal when we started using colored pencils instead of crayons. Crayons were for “babies.” But we never used either one in the fifth-grade classroom. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/47 "2017-08-18T14:40:28Z")
I was originally against the idea of pooling for just the reasons Shodan mentioned. After a year or so, I got more familiar with it, and seeing some students who didn’t have the means or hearing that some teachers supplemented what wasn’t brought, I changed my mind. I’m fine with helping the other students for two reasons, not in order. First, I am totally okay with helping disproportionately for children. Second, it eliminates other potential classroom distractions so the teacher and students can focus on learning, instead of supply scrambling. I see the brand specific thing as just establishing uniformity, so there isn’t any squabbling. I’m sure the teacher won’t turn anything away. The first day of school sees all the kids bringing in a shopping bag full of all the supplies, and they are placed somewhere in class like when you bring gifts to a birthday party. I imagine the teacher will later sort through them. Ultimately I defer to the judgment of the teacher in this matter. I have suggested the cash option to an individual teacher before but since I didn’t have that teacher again I don’t know if they took me up on that. This may be more specific to my situation, but since my employer will match 100% of any cash I contribute, I see it more as a way to maximize resources for the school. If they need $50 in supplies, I can provide the supplies, or donate $50 and then the school gets $100. Win win. ---
**Author:** ![Patx2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/73ab20/32.png) [@Patx2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Patx2)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/48 "2017-08-18T14:59:14Z")
I know my daughter would often end up not even needing items that were on the list. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/49 "2017-08-18T15:18:17Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > I do indeed remember making some visual aids, but they were all for homework. _Shrug_ Maybe this teacher plans to have some work done in class or at least wants to allow for it. I know we did group projects in class (“Ok, you write the speech and I’ll draw three types of marsupials…”). Anyway, drawing/coloring/art supplies for a 5th grade class don’t strike me as especially odd. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/50 "2017-08-18T15:22:06Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > What happens if you send your kidlet to school with off-brand supplies? > > The idea of “send the kid to school with all her supplies, pool them together and the teacher doles them out as necessary” seems bizarre to me. I want to provide for my own child first, at whatever level of quality that seems appropriate to me. I guess I don’t really care if my kid is using our hand-picked Ticonderoga pencils or some off brand. Likewise for glue sticks and highlighters. I can barely think of an instance where it would make any difference at the elementary school level. “My boy might have learned cursive if only he had the Pilot ballpoints we bought him and not the cheap Bic pens some other kid brought!” ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/51 "2017-08-18T15:47:06Z")
> [@Patx2](#): > > I know my daughter would often end up not even needing items that were on the list. That’s what would bother me. 3 composition notebooks. Buy three notebooks, come home with two blank notebooks and one that has four pages written in it. I don’t mind pooling supplies. There are some things I expected to have pooled, and some things (pencil cases) that the kids pick out special. If the list says “blue notebook” I’m ok with that going to be pooled. If it says “notebook” I assume that if my kid picks out the extra special Avengers notebook, they’ll keep it. The one we have to fix is Scientific Calculators. My kids went to an economically diverse school - and some kids were trying to pass Alg II or Trig with a loaner calculator that they couldn’t take home. There weren’t enough loaners to go around, so kids had to stay after to take tests or do homework. The kids can’t graduate in Minnesota without passing Alg II…anyone see the problem? ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/52 "2017-08-18T15:57:34Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > If the school decided to put the PTA in charge of school supplies, and have them collect all the money for all the classes I’d be fine with that. For a while, my kid’s school did this. You bought the supply pack from the PTA when you registered for class. Then parents started complaining that they could find the same supplies cheaper online or had leftovers from last year and didn’t need the whole pack. So they went back to the “provide a list and let the masses go invade Walmart” approach. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/53 "2017-08-18T16:03:42Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > The thing is, we never all lined up at the pencil sharpener en masse. Each of us would go to the sharpener individually, as needed. IIRC, we went up as rows. It’s been a long time though so the memory may be a little fuzzy. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/54 "2017-08-18T16:04:50Z")
Yeah, I’m pretty sure my local school has (or had) a “PTA Supply Kit” you could buy if you didn’t want to head to the store. Not sure if they still do since we never made use of it. Between re-using old supplies and online ordering making the “Madhouse in the Office Supplies Aisle” factor largely obsolete, they may have stopped offering it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/55 "2017-08-18T16:09:22Z")
Another issue is that a lot of items are interchangeable, but you might have personal preferences. Take pencils, for example. It’s reasonable to expect everyone to have writing implements, but some people prefer wooden pencils that you sharpen, while others prefer mechanical pencils (and of the latter, some prefer one good quality one that they refill, while others prefer the cheap disposable ones). Or maybe you have a student who really does prefer to do their math work in pen: I won’t recommend that, but if that’s what works better for you, go for it: You’ll need to buy more pens but fewer pencils. Oh, and the red pens are probably for the students to grade each others’ work. The teacher has to offer oversight, of course, but grading each others’ work is a great way to see what your own mistakes were. A given student probably won’t use up a whole pen that way… but they’re likely to lose several, and pens are much cheaper bought ten at a time than one at a time. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/56 "2017-08-18T16:11:38Z")
Here’s a thought. Why not raises taxes for the school board so that it can buy these supplies in bulk and supply them to students every year? It would be cheaper to buy in bulk and more efficient. Yes, that means someone who doesn’t have a child might have to kick in a dollar, but everyone knows that good school systems benefit the whole community with better property values and a better educated workforce. Americans should be ashamed at not providing fully funded schools for our children. Begging pencils and paper from the parents is a disgrace. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/57 "2017-08-18T16:16:42Z")
The problem is that most public schools in the US are funded, at least in part, by local property taxes. So you would be raising taxes on just the people that own property which would disproportionately affect a minority of the people. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/58 "2017-08-18T16:38:32Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > The problem is that most public schools in the US are funded, at least in part, by local property taxes. So you would be raising taxes on just the people that own property which would disproportionately affect a minority of the people. Not really. When a landlord has his property taxes raised, he passes it down. And most people live somewhere - they either own property or they rent it. The simple matter is we don’t WANT to fund our schools adequately. We are selfish bastards who think that if Abraham Lincoln could do it with a slate in a log cabin by himself, then I don’t know why it costs $12,000 a year per student to send them to public school - and why should I pay for it, I graduated already. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/59 "2017-08-18T16:45:26Z")
But what about the farmer who has 1,000 acres of land. He doesn’t have anyone to pass that tax down to. And if crop and livestock prices are depressed, it puts him in a precarious position financially. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2017, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873/60 "2017-08-18T16:48:09Z")
> [@Kimballkid](#): > > The problem is that most public schools in the US are funded, at least in part, by local property taxes. So you would be raising taxes on just the people that own property which would disproportionately affect a minority of the people. This is only a problem if you ignore the benefit to the community of having a good school system. You also have to ignore how may of the property owners are also graduates of the local school system, who probably haven’t contributed enough to cover the cost of their own childhood educations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-school-supply-lists-in-primary-education-are-lame/793873.md?page=4)