# Back to the Dollhouse: Season 2 Premiere ''Vows'' **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [September 25, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516 "2009-09-25T14:34:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lakai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9de0a6/32.png) [@Lakai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lakai)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/21 "2009-09-26T22:32:25Z")
> [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I’m wondering when Topher is going to figure out he’s a Doll too. He gave Whiskey/Saunders his own unwillingness to leave the Dollhouse, re-enforced with a fear of crowds, light and noise. Topher can’t be a Doll because there is no one to check up on him in case something goes wrong. Plus, if anyone could figure out if he was a Doll, it would be Topher. ---
**Author:** ![AlsoNamedBort](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alsonamedbort/32/3213_2.png) [@AlsoNamedBort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AlsoNamedBort)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2009, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/22 "2009-09-26T22:47:57Z")
> [@Lakai](#): > > The only reason Echo isn’t interesting is because she is a new person in every episode. If she had a stable character then she’d be just as interesting as every other stable character on the show. I say it’s the opposite. Unlike Sierra and Victor, pretty much all of her personalities are exactly the same person. Which is not that interesting. > [@The\_Devil\_s\_Grandmother](#): > > I’m wondering when Topher is going to figure out he’s a Doll too. He gave Whiskey/Saunders his own unwillingness to leave the Dollhouse, re-enforced with a fear of crowds, light and noise. I threw out this theory last season but got rejected because he was affected by that virus-thingy last season. Wasn’t there also a flash back of him starting his job at the dollhouse too? ---
**Author:** ![Invisible\_Chimp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/f05b48/32.png) [@Invisible\_Chimp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Invisible_Chimp)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/23 "2009-09-27T01:17:59Z")
> [@CyclopticXander](#): > > I am so happy they didn’t slow things down for new viewers, since newcomers had their chance to catch on for the entire first half of last season. They jumped right in, and it was “mind candy” indeed. > > Also, God love Amy Acker. If I hadn’t watched last season, I think I would have been lost. They need to slow it down for new viewers because this show needs better ratings to get a third season. But I agree with your love of Amy Acker. It’s too bad she won’t be around much this season. Also, I miss Miracle Laurie. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/24 "2009-09-27T02:08:13Z")
If \*Dollhouse \*is “mind candy”, I think that makes November the Miracle Whip. ---
**Author:** ![CyclopticXander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@CyclopticXander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CyclopticXander)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/25 "2009-09-27T03:57:26Z")
> [@Ataraxy](#): > > If I hadn’t watched last season, I think I would have been lost. They need to slow it down for new viewers because this show needs better ratings to get a third season. > > But I agree with your love of Amy Acker. It’s too bad she won’t be around much this season. > > Also, I miss Miracle Laurie. I understand that position, but I am extremely skeptical that this show will ever get good ratings. The ratings for the premiere were still terrible. That’s not to say it can’t make money, niche shows have all sorts of alternative ways of generating revenue. The problem is that most of last season was extremely newbie friendly to build an audience (there were basically six pilots), and suffered artistically for it. So as a result there were mediocre and bad reviews all over the internet. This is not helpful for a philosophical sci-fi show that should depend on its quality to attract nerds. Nerds who download the show on itunes and buy the DVDs and merchandise and such. Basically the first season plodded through with sprinkled bits of brilliance, but they need to really get into the meat here…otherwise they are just going to fail at generating mainstream appeal and get canceled anyway, and they’ll never have the chance to explore the amazing potential of the show’s premise because they made another half season of pilots. Yea it’s a shame we only get three episodes with Amy, the most compelling actor on the show. And to add insult to injury, Happy Town looks really bad. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/26 "2009-09-27T22:30:25Z")
> [@The\_Controvert](#): > > By my count, > > Angel - Alexis Denisov, Amy Acker, Eliza Dushku > > Buffy - Eliza Dushku, Alexis Denisov, Felicia Day > > Battlestar - Tahmoh Penikett, Mark Sheppard, Jamie Bamber > > Firefly - Alan Tudyk, Summer Glau If you’re going to count people more than once for being on multiple shows, Summer Glau also had a role on Angel, pre-Firefly. She was the ballet dancer in the season 3 episode where they go to the ballet. And as already mentioned upthread, Mark Sheppard as Badger on Firefly. Man, was it weird seeing Denisof and Bamber swap accents. Yeah, I know Denisof’s really an American, and Bamber’s really a Brit, but still… Does Fox have any plans of airing the “lost” episode at some point, or is that to forever remain a DVD extra? I’ve already seen it, but I’m sure some people haven’t. ---
**Author:** ![Yodalicious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yodalicious/32/8195_2.png) [@Yodalicious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yodalicious)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/27 "2009-09-28T20:59:08Z")
After Sierra and Victor saw each other and she touched his face, did they walk off holding hands? ---
**Author:** ![Chopper9760](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cdc98d/32.png) [@Chopper9760](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chopper9760)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/28 "2009-09-28T21:57:52Z")
yes ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Ed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Just\_Ed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Ed)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/29 "2009-09-28T22:03:05Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > Does Fox have any plans of airing the “lost” episode at some point, or is that to forever remain a DVD extra? I’ve already seen it, but I’m sure some people haven’t. I thought they had. I had had a “TV Pass” with Amazon Video On Demand for Season 1, and they’re showing an original air date of August 11 for “Epitaph One”, which is also when it downloaded to my TiVo automatically. I can’t confirm if Fox actually broadcast it or not, but Amazon still has it available. (And I do highly recommend it to anyone who hasn’t seen it, whether you obtain it via Amazon or elsewhere. It doesn’t take place in the current timeline of the show and it’s not necessary to see it in order to follow along, but it does provide a hell of a vision of where Joss is going.) > [@Daddypants](#): > > After Sierra and Victor saw each other and she touched his face, did they walk off holding hands? Yep. Looks like Topher is going to have a lot of explaining to do; those “wipes” are getting less and less effective. ---
**Author:** ![obfusciatrist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/4af34b/32.png) [@obfusciatrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/obfusciatrist)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/30 "2009-09-30T01:36:40Z")
> [@MEBuckner](#): > > Perhaps with this thing of Echo becoming a permanent composite I must admit I’m doubting whether she’s actually a permanent composite or if she’s just been imprinted that way to lead Ballard down the rabbit hole. ---
**Author:** ![Offkenter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/f08c70/32.png) [@Offkenter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Offkenter)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/31 "2009-09-30T14:30:28Z")
I’m pretty sure that Echo is really developing her own personality. Pay attention to Eliza Dushku’s delivery of the “Did I fall asleep?” wake up line. Even when Ballard isn’t around, she significantly less vulnerable and childlike when she says it. That line seems to be a key phrase used to let Topher know that the Active has been returned to the passive, innocent “Doll” personality. This season, when Echo wakes up from a treatment she still gives the pass phrase, but she is much more adult and self confident when she does. Does anyone else think that Topher had some major character development in this episode? His claim that Dr. Saunder/Whiskey is better than him really caught my attention. He seems to have a real case of self loathing going on. He isn’t as cheerfully amoral as he seemed last season. I hope that Topher’s assistant Ivy, is given a bigger role in the show. Despite her small amount of screen time, she feels like a real person. She also has the same kind of non-Hollywood beauty that Miracle Laurie has. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/32 "2009-09-30T15:55:09Z")
> [@TBG](#): > > If you’re going to count people more than once for being on multiple shows, Summer Glau also had a role on Angel, pre-Firefly. She was the ballet dancer in the season 3 episode where they go to the ballet. And as already mentioned upthread, Mark Sheppard as Badger on Firefly. > > Man, was it weird seeing Denisof and Bamber swap accents. Yeah, I know Denisof’s really an American, and Bamber’s really a Brit, but still… > > Does Fox have any plans of airing the “lost” episode at some point, or is that to forever remain a DVD extra? I’ve already seen it, but I’m sure some people haven’t. Thanks, we got some really sharp dopers around here. Updated count: Angel - Alexis Denisov, Amy Acker, Eliza Dushku, Summer Glau Buffy - Eliza Dushku, Alexis Denisov, Felicia Day Battlestar - Tahmoh Penikett, Mark Sheppard, Jamie Bamber Firefly - Alan Tudyk, Summer Glau, Mark Sheppard ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/33 "2009-10-01T01:02:51Z")
First, this is a dumb question, but who was Denisov in the episode? Second, was the music a lot worse this time around, or was it my imagination? The incidentals seemed to be mostly discordant droning notes, as if they could no longer afford to pay an actual composer. The dialog in the first half of the episode was vintage Joss, full of laughs. “Tempura Joe” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/34 "2009-10-01T02:08:47Z")
Denisof played the U.S. Senator who was shown giving a press conference near the beginning of the episode. It was a fairly minor side bit, but it seems pretty clear they’re setting him up to be part of some major story arc this season (at least initially and apparently) as an antagonist to the Rossum Corporation. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2009, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/35 "2009-10-01T18:41:57Z")
> [@Just\_Ed](#): > > I thought they had. I had had a “TV Pass” with Amazon Video On Demand for Season 1, and they’re showing an original air date of August 11 for “Epitaph One”, which is also when it downloaded to my TiVo automatically. I can’t confirm if Fox actually broadcast it or not, but Amazon still has it available. According to wiki, it aired in the UK on Aug 11, that must be where Amazon got the date from. Aug 11 was a Tuesday, so I think Fox in the US would’ve been running Hell’s Kitchen and the Bachelor ripoff with fat people. ---
**Author:** ![JSexton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/96bed5/32.png) [@JSexton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JSexton)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2009, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516/36 "2009-10-02T18:38:02Z")
There were some great references to the unaired 13th episode, Epitaph. Notably, When Topher and Saunders were arguing, Tophers snapped “I know what I know!” at her, a phrase which resonates strongly with his breakdown in epitaph. Also, Boyd and Saunders possibly starting a relationship, as well as Victor and Sierra. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/back-to-the-dollhouse-season-2-premiere-vows/511516.md?page=1)