# Backfire Take 2 - Could the MSM blow it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 31, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609 "2006-10-31T17:59:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/1 "2006-10-31T17:59:56Z")
IF Fox is on the right and ABCNNBCBSMSNBC is on the left, and IF the latter is doing its best to prop up Dems and tear down Pubs in an effort discourage Pub voters…could that backfire? The Pub base could very well be discouraged but that can be undone to a certain degree with some get out the vote effort on the ground and political ads done the right way. Could the Dem base be made complacent by the efforts of the majority of the MSM networks ? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/2 "2006-10-31T18:02:00Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] IF Fox is on the right and ABCNNBCBSMSNBC is on the left, and IF the latter is doing its best to prop up Dems… [/QUOTE] BZZZT! They’re not. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/3 "2006-10-31T18:07:19Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] IF the latter is doing its best to prop up Dems and tear down Pubs in an effort discourage Pub voters…could that backfire? [/QUOTE] I suppose that anyone may propose any sort of hypothetical which could, then, _hypothetically_, fail. However, I have seen nothing to indicate that anything resembling the quoted statement is occurring, so it is difficult to evaluate its hypothetical implications. (I suppose that if the aminstream media had actually been trumpeting some sort of Democratic landslide ever since May, we could wonder whether that might backfire, but since I have seen nothing resembling that scenario, (_heck, I saw no one even seriously considering a Democrat Senate prior to August and that is still seen as too tight to call by most pundits_), I am not sure how to address the issue. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/4 "2006-10-31T18:14:46Z")
How about a related debate: Could the constant and unrelenting suggestions that condition x or event y will backfire on the Democrats backfire on the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/5 "2006-10-31T18:40:51Z")
Will the spectacle of pagans, homosexuals and secular humanists dancing naked in the streets on Nov. 8th impact negatively on the Dem’s chances in 2008? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/6 "2006-10-31T18:41:13Z")
I don’t think the dems are discouraged by the conventional media, on the contrary energiezed by it, as everyine likes to be on the winning side. I think the conventional media’s greatest influence is on undecided voters, as human nature comes into play and such a voter likes to vote for a winner, so he may decide to vote for the canidate that the conventional media projects as winning, he may decide to vote for the canidate that he likes because the conventional media projects him as winning and he wants to vote for a winner, or he may not vote if his canidate is projected as loosing as he doesn’t want to vote for a looser. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/7 "2006-10-31T18:49:25Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] How about a related debate: Could the constant and unrelenting suggestions that condition x or event y will backfire on the Democrats backfire on the Republicans? [/QUOTE] Damn, **Hentor** , I was just sitting here trying to figure how best to say exactly that, and you beat me to it. I’m getting tired of the seemingly weekly “Will _X_ Democratic strategy backfire on them?”, and usually the tactic they’re referring to is one in which the Dems are capitalizing on a Republican screwup. Most of it comes across as transparent attempts at convincing the Dems to stop focussing on a particular Pub issue, in hopes that the public will forget about that particular Republican embarrassment. Oh, but it’s really just “helpful advice” from the Republicans. “Hey, if you Democrats keep pounding on our (war, page-botherin’, ethics), it’ll backfire on you and we’ll win! Really, we’re just trying to help you win! Really!” I’m not sayin’ that’s what the OP’s doing, but we’ve certainly seen a lot of these “_X_ will backfire” memes lately. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/8 "2006-10-31T18:59:07Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] Damn, **Hentor** , I was just sitting here trying to figure how best to say exactly that, and you beat me to it. I’m getting tired of the seemingly weekly “Will _X_ Democratic strategy backfire on them?”, and usually the tactic they’re referring to is one in which the Dems are capitalizing on a Republican screwup. Most of it comes across as transparent attempts at convincing the Dems to stop focussing on a particular Pub issue, in hopes that the public will forget about that particular Republican embarrassment. Oh, but it’s really just “helpful advice” from the Republicans. “Hey, if you Democrats keep pounding on our (war, page-botherin’, ethics), it’ll backfire on you and we’ll win! Really, we’re just trying to help you win! Really!” I’m not sayin’ that’s what the OP’s doing, but we’ve certainly seen a lot of these “_X_ will backfire” memes lately. [/QUOTE] It can be a helpful way of identifying those issues republicans might be most afraid of. This one is not so useful, because the bugaboo nonsense of the MSM is a tired old one that you might predict from a republican anyway. I think it reflects a more general fearful or dispirited response to facts about current poll results, combined with a realization that the actual problem (of poll results) can’t be blamed on the MSM, but the telling of the story can. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/9 "2006-10-31T19:17:53Z")
[QUOTE=Lightnin’] I’m not sayin’ that’s what the OP’s doing, but we’ve certainly seen a lot of these “_X_ will backfire” memes lately. [/QUOTE] Lots of the memes, but from relatively few sources, if you look into it. It seems to be the same folks over and over, repeating slightly modified versions of their previous attempts. All of this current help from the right reminds me of the help we used to get from a certain Señor Motorola. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/11 "2006-10-31T19:31:38Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] IF Fox is on the right and ABCNNBCBSMSNBC is on the left [/QUOTE] Time once again to tune up the right-left detector: Since there is no way to avoid opinion in this subject, then and only then, is that I feel free to link to the Democratic Underground, I still think it is the high of condescension not to check the opinion of the left on what do they think about the MSM: [http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show\_topics&forum=109](http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=109) DU is not affiliated with the Democrats, but they are liberal, and some members are very liberal (Some are nutters, but the only thing to notice here is that many times we hear from coast to coast the Right wing nutter side of things on the MSM, controversial points from the left are almost never discussed). Anyhow, the reason why I posted that link is only to show for the 100th time that liberals do not consider the MSM their news. Far from it, the mindless behavior of reporting extremely misleading say so’s of the right only next to more nuanced positions of the center with no analysis of who is pulling a fast one, and avoiding most of the left’s positions is what we get now in the MSM. ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/12 "2006-10-31T19:34:51Z")
[QUOTE=tomndebb] I suppose that anyone may propose any sort of hypothetical which could, then, _hypothetically_, fail. However, I have seen nothing to indicate that anything resembling the quoted statement is occurring, so it is difficult to evaluate its hypothetical implications. [/QUOTE] Pretty much what I expected from you folks… here’s some [evidence.](http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20061031/d_mediamix31.art.htm) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/13 "2006-10-31T19:35:23Z")
All these “Will this backfire on the Dems?” threads **What the … !!!** has been starting have a distinct feel of whistling past the graveyard. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![What\_the](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f4b2a3/32.png) [@What\_the](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_the)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/14 "2006-10-31T19:36:35Z")
Even [Juan Williams](http://newsbusters.org/node/8714) thinks so. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/15 "2006-10-31T19:43:44Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Pretty much what I expected from you folks… here’s some [evidence.](http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20061031/d_mediamix31.art.htm) [/QUOTE] The OP is pretty much what I expected from you… here’s some [counterevidence](http://www.mediatransparency.org/recipientgrants.php?recipientID=573). ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/16 "2006-10-31T19:45:43Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Even [Juan Williams](http://newsbusters.org/node/8714) thinks so. [/QUOTE] Who? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/17 "2006-10-31T19:47:22Z")
[QUOTE=Hentor the Barbarian] How about a related debate: Could the constant and unrelenting suggestions that condition x or event y will backfire on the Democrats backfire on the Republicans? [/QUOTE] [Here](http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/31/florida_terminals_dont_cooperate/) is an example of the kind of thing I really worry about backfiring on the Democrats. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/18 "2006-10-31T19:48:10Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Pretty much what I expected from you folks… here’s some [evidence.](http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20061031/d_mediamix31.art.htm) [/QUOTE] Read it again, that only shows what the pollsters and people are telling reporters: people are favoring Democrats this time around, the weird thing is that you seem to say that only by hiding that bit of news that then the media would be impartial :dubious:. Sorry, as I have said before: this are the news, not the olds. Things change, many times I have seen conservatives confuse the report of change to be “liberal news”. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/19 "2006-10-31T19:49:02Z")
[QUOTE=What the … !!!] Pretty much what I expected from you folks… here’s some [evidence.](http://www.usatoday.com/printedition/life/20061031/d_mediamix31.art.htm) [/QUOTE] It’s not bias to report the news, and the Foley scandal is news. If the Dems had a page scandal, the MSM would report that, too. But they don’t. I think the MSM is going to look biased against whoever is in power, just because that party is going to generate more news, and we all know that news = “bad news” most of the time. ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/20 "2006-10-31T19:56:33Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] Who? [/QUOTE] The NPR and Fox employee that [some](http://ontheirtoes.blogspot.com/2006/08/juan-williams-drinks-conservative-kool.html), including even those on the [right](http://mensnewsdaily.com/2006/09/03/is-juan-williams-a-mole/), claim has actually been a closeted conservative who pretended to be liberal so that he could get paid, or that he’s just slowly turning into a conservative as he grows older. Tossing out his name is not unlike when the conservatives trot out Hitchens, who also used to be considered liberal, but isn’t by any stretch of the imagination these days, no matter what they want you to believe. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2006, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609/21 "2006-10-31T20:05:22Z")
In case you don’t want to check all the opinions in the DU threads on the MSM, one of them has a link to a video clip that shows how similar MSM talking heads are to extreme ones like Pat Robertson: [http://brasscheck.com/videos/spin/spin-short.html](http://brasscheck.com/videos/spin/spin-short.html) > [@](#): > > In the early 1990s, artist Brian Springer spent a year scouring the airwaves with a satellite dish grabbing back channel news feeds not intended for public consumption. The result of his research is SPIN, one of the most insightful films ever made about the mechanics of how television is used as a tool of social control to distort and limit the American public’s perception of reality. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/backfire-take-2-could-the-msm-blow-it/378609.md?page=2)