# Background help needed with German translation **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 28, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422 "2017-04-28T05:43:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 5:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/1 "2017-04-28T05:43:55Z")
“Ein bauer der mit pferdegespannen arbeitet.” I get the straightforward translation: a farmer who works with horse-drawn wagons (or teams of horses, or wagons drawn by teams of horses). What is not clear to me is why this would be a sufficiently interesting or different category of farmer to warrant its own special term: pferdner. So I was wondering if any Europeans, perhaps especially Germans but not necessarily, would have an insight into the background of this term. The only thing that occurs to me is that it was a class distinction, that a pferdner would be a somewhat higher class of farmer because he can afford at least one team of horses. Perhaps he also rented out horses to other farmers. I know this is pretty arcane so I’m not expecting much from this, but I’m not sure where to go to find out more. Any insights much appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![kk\_fusion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kk_fusion/32/15276_2.png) [@kk\_fusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kk_fusion)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/2 "2017-04-28T09:23:23Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > The only thing that occurs to me is that it was a class distinction, that a pferdner would be a somewhat higher class of farmer because he can afford at least one team of horses. Quick googling indicates that you’ve got it, with the added distinction that a _Bauer_ working his own farm would have been a higher class also. Most people were peasants back then. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/3 "2017-04-28T16:58:00Z")
> [@kk\_fusion](#): > > Quick googling indicates that you’ve got it, with the added distinction that a _Bauer_ working his own farm would have been a higher class also. Most people were peasants back then. Thanks, I have tried googling the question but I must not be very good at it. Would you share what terms you searched on? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/4 "2017-04-28T17:49:17Z")
The German-language secondary sources that I found with some googling (e.g. the Wikipedia article [Bauernstand](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauernstand) and [this article from a dictionary published in 1774–1786](http://lexika.digitale-sammlungen.de/adelung/lemma/bsb00009133_4_0_831)) mention _Pferdner_ (and as a near-synonym _Pferdbauer_) in two meanings: [ul] [li]farmer who had at least one horse or a team of horses (as opposed to an _Ochsenbauer_ who had a team of oxen, or a less affluent _Kuhbauer_ who had to plow with cows)[/li][li]farmer whose labour obligation to the lord of the manor included the labour of a horse _(Pferdbauer_ or _Spannbauer_) as opposed to _Handbauer_ - the latter’s labour obligation included only himself[/li][/ul] The two meanings of course overlap - a larger holding would more often entail _Hand- und Spanndienste_ (socage obligation of manual labour and use of draft animals) as opposed to _Handdienste_ (socage only of manual labour) Peasant status in medieval and early modern times was finely granulated - a farmer (_Bauer_) holding enough land of their own to feed a family (a _Hube_ or _Hufe_) was in the upper class of village society (only below a _Meier_ (a farmer holding more than one _Hufe_), and the village priest), which is why _Meier_, _Bauer_ and _Huber_ survive as common German last names, while the lesser _Halbbauer_, _Viertelbauer_, _Kötner_ etc. are rarely encountered as family names. A last name of _Bauer_ or _Huber_ proudly references the fact that the ancestor first taking the name held enough land to support a family, as opposed to a peasant who had to feed his family by wage labour for farmers. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [April 28, 2017, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/5 "2017-04-28T23:04:32Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > The German-language secondary sources that I found with some googling (e.g. the Wikipedia article [Bauernstand](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bauernstand) and [this article from a dictionary published in 1774–1786](http://lexika.digitale-sammlungen.de/adelung/lemma/bsb00009133_4_0_831)) mention _Pferdner_ (and as a near-synonym _Pferdbauer_) in two meanings: > > [ul] > [li]farmer who had at least one horse or a team of horses (as opposed to an _Ochsenbauer_ who had a team of oxen, or a less affluent _Kuhbauer_ who had to plow with cows)[/li][li]farmer whose labour obligation to the lord of the manor included the labour of a horse _(Pferdbauer_ or _Spannbauer_) as opposed to _Handbauer_ - the latter’s labour obligation included only himself[/li][/ul] > The two meanings of course overlap - a larger holding would more often entail _Hand- und Spanndienste_ (socage obligation of manual labour and use of draft animals) as opposed to _Handdienste_ (socage only of manual labour) > > Peasant status in medieval and early modern times was finely granulated - a farmer (_Bauer_) holding enough land of their own to feed a family (a _Hube_ or _Hufe_) was in the upper class of village society (only below a _Meier_ (a farmer holding more than one _Hufe_), and the village priest), which is why _Meier_, _Bauer_ and _Huber_ survive as common German last names, while the lesser _Halbbauer_, _Viertelbauer_, _Kötner_ etc. are rarely encountered as family names. A last name of _Bauer_ or _Huber_ proudly references the fact that the ancestor first taking the name held enough land to support a family, as opposed to a peasant who had to feed his family by wage labour for farmers. Thank you, and sorry but I’m not clear on one point: would you say a Pferdner/Pferdbauer would be on the same social level or higher (or lower) than a Bauer? Does this explain why there are so many more Bauers in the world than there are Pferdners (or Pferdbauers, if any)? ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 9:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/background-help-needed-with-german-translation/785422/6 "2017-04-29T09:21:13Z")
> [@Roderick\_Femm](#): > > Thank you, and sorry but I’m not clear on one point: would you say a Pferdner/Pferdbauer would be on the same social level or higher (or lower) than a Bauer? Does this explain why there are so many more Bauers in the world than there are Pferdners (or Pferdbauers, if any)? Not being a qualified onomasiologist, my guess as an idle sometime reader of social history would be that a _Pferdner_ would be a subset of a _Bauer_, but only used regionally. That would go towards an explanation why Bauers would be much more numerous. It is sometimes puzzling why some occupations are more numerous as family names now than others. For example, there were two occupation names for a person who specialized in castrating livestock: _Nonnenmacher_ and _Schweinepriester_ (literally, nun maker and pig priest). Nowadays _Nonnenmacher_ is (somewhat infrequently) encountered as a family name in Germany while _Schweinepriester_ only survives as a curse word. Another example: There are significantly more persons named _Schwertfeger_/_Schwerdtfeger_ (naming a specialist who ground and polished blades of edged weapons that had already been forged and hardened) than _Waffenschmidt_/_Waffenschmied_ (weapons smith), although the first craft would be a specialisation of the second.