# Bad Academy award movies **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 10, 2003, 4:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031 "2003-02-10T04:39:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/101 "2003-02-13T19:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by astorian \* > \*\*I don’t WANT to explain it away, nor do I need to. I don’t require everyone to agree with me, and if you can honestly say you were bored or unmoved by “Saving Private Ryan,” well, fine! There’s nothing more to discuss- we just disagree, that’s all. > > […] > > If you’re not one of those people, if you simply didn’t like this particular film, well, okay. Opinions vary. \*\* RikWriter, pay attention. This is how to express disagreement on a matter of taste without saying that the other guy is just plain wrong, wrong, wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Mockingbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mockingbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mockingbird)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/102 "2003-02-13T19:44:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > \*\*Sorry, I was unaware that 1)you were the owner of this website and 2)that the rules stated that only people who agree with you may state their opinions. > I AM aware of the rule that says that when you disagree with someone you will attack them rather than their position. That seems to be your modus operandi. \*\* I’m not flaming you, and I am not attacking you. I am MOCKING you. Note the nick. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Tars\_Tarkas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Tars\_Tarkas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tars_Tarkas)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/103 "2003-02-13T20:04:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*I have no patience with either of you - you’re both acting like twelve year olds. I just didn’t feel the urge to follow up the pair of you. > > Now drop it or take it to the Pit. \*\* I was unaware you are now a moderator. Plus you were clearly attacking **RikWriter** while ignoring **Mockingbird** , who is the agressor in this fight. and now you are attacking in later posts. “Do as i say not as i do” is now implemented. Couching Tiger was one of the best choreographed films ever, it deserved the oscar, but the acadamy gave it best foreign film so they could feel guilt free for voting for the movie about the oiled up guy in leather with a big sword. Who would have known that would have won in Hollywood??? ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/104 "2003-02-13T20:17:26Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Tars Tarkas \* > **I was unaware you are now a moderator.** I’m not, and if anyone feels that I’ve presumed then I apologise. OTOH, I don’t particularly want this to reach the point where a moderator has to step in. Do you? \*\* > [@](#): > > Plus you were clearly attacking **RikWriter** while ignoring **Mockingbird** , who is the agressor in this fight. and now you are attacking in later posts. “Do as i say not as i do” is now implemented.\*\* Mockingbird is _not_ the aggressor here. Or do you mean to say you find the guy saying how everyone is just plain wrong and he is right less offensive than the guy telling him to get over himself? ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/105 "2003-02-13T20:21:05Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*Mockingbird is _not_ the aggressor here. Or do you mean to say you find the guy saying how everyone is just plain wrong and he is right less offensive than the guy telling him to get over himself? \*\* Telling someone they are wrong (not everyone btw…don’t arrogate yourself into thinking everyone agrees with you) is not agressive. Mocking and insulting someone because you disagree with them is agressive. YOU were agressive as well. ---
**Author:** ![Menocchio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de053/32.png) [@Menocchio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Menocchio)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/106 "2003-02-13T20:55:40Z")
Spielburg could have had a great war film, but he ruined it with the coda. The rest of the film after the first twenty minutes was drawn out and boring enough, he had to make it preachy and saccharine. Removing the coda would have increased the film’s quality at least 50%. _Das Boot_ remains the best war film of all time, followed by _Duck Soup_. As for SIL, I thoroughly enjoyed that movie. The characters were all much better realized (both by the writers and the actors), the script was much better, and whle SPR did more cinetographically, SIL had great art direction as well. No injustice there. Which one will eb remembered in 20 years? Neither, really. Shakepeare geeks looking for something light will pick up SIL, and the first twenty minutes of SPR will be familar, but the rest, like the last half of _Full Metal Jacket_ (“Me love you long time” aside) or the middle ninety minutes of _2001_ will be forgotten by concensus of the filmwatching public. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/107 "2003-02-13T21:26:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by RikWriter \* > \*\*Telling someone they are wrong (not everyone btw…don’t arrogate yourself into thinking everyone agrees with you) is not agressive. \*\* No, it’s just arrogant, insulting, high-handed and patronising. I hope you enjoy being the first person on my ignore list. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/108 "2003-02-13T21:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JohnT \* > > Personally, I am appalled at 1979 when the treacly, movie-of-the-week **Kramer vs. Kramer** won over All that Jazz, Apocalypse Now, Breaking Away, and Norma Rae. Others might mention 1977, and they’ll be both right and wrong: **Star Wars** was a more important movie than **Annie Hall** , but it was by no means a better movie. \*\* Right. History has voted here, and Kramer & Annie are dead, the videos not being generally available (ie, yes, you can get them, easily enough if you want, but they are not always there on the video store rental shelves)- but both Star Wars & Apocalypse now being still rented, talked about and enjoyed. Sometimes Oscar is WAY too trendy & PC. Looks like Chicago- another entertaining but ultimately forgetable film, will win. The trend towards films released in the Holiday film season being the only ones considered has gotten way out of control. Do all the nominators have such short term memories? SPR wasn’t bad at all. But if you watch “the Longest Day”, you’ll get this terrible feeling of deja vue, as some scenes were lifted whole cloth. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/109 "2003-02-13T21:43:48Z")
Yikes! It’s like I’ve walked into the middle of the first half hour of SPR in this thread ;). For what it’s worth, I think SPR was a better movie than SIL, and deserved the Oscar. I think in 20 years, SPR will be considered a classic and that Oscar vote will be called a mistake. If you don’t agree, then that’s fine. It’s just my opinion after all :D. I thought A Beautiful Mind was a well done movie. I can understand people wanting more emphasis on math, but that would have turned off a lot of people. I do think it was better than LOTR (even though I own LOTR on DVD and don’t have BM), and much of push for LOTR were from Tolkien fans. ---
**Author:** ![RikWriter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/49beb7/32.png) [@RikWriter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RikWriter)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/110 "2003-02-13T21:47:44Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*No, it’s just arrogant, insulting, high-handed and patronising. I hope you enjoy being the first person on my ignore list. \*\* It may be arrogant, but high-handed and patronizing? To just tell someone they are wrong?? Man, you must have had a hard time in school. They have to tell you you’re wrong all the time. How high-handed of them. Damn teachers. ---
**Author:** ![Stephe96](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Stephe96](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stephe96)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/111 "2003-02-13T21:58:33Z")
Not to “Spielberg bash” or anything, but am I the only person who found “Catch Me If You Can” an incredibly boring movie? Everyone else I talk with seems to love it but I couldn’t believe that a movie about a real-life con-artist could be so unengaging and suspense-free… Oh well. By the way, I thought “Black Hawk Down” was a much better movie than “Saving Private Ryan.” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Death](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecccb3/32.png) [@Evil\_Death](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Death)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/112 "2003-02-13T22:07:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Stephe96 \* > **Not to “Spielberg bash” or anything, but am I the only person who found “Catch Me If You Can” an incredibly boring movie? Everyone else I talk with seems to love it but I couldn’t believe that a movie about a real-life con-artist could be so unengaging and suspense-free…** It wasn’t a bad film, but when you know from the start not only that he’s going to be caught but also when and where, it loses a lot. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/113 "2003-02-13T22:28:55Z")
Okay, if we can forget about Spielberg for a sec… My feeling is, the average Academy voter is still an “Old Hollywood” insider. Such a person is, by nature: 1. Extremely liberal, politically. 2. Extremely conservative, artistically. Both of these things show in the films they choose to honor. I think that, to oversimplify, what most Academy voters want is a hybrid film. If you could combine the visuals of David Lean (sweeping, panoramic landscapes, lush, exotic settings) and the earnest, preachy scripts of Stanley Kramer (preferably dealing with some trendy cause), you’d ahve the PERFECT formula for a Best Picture. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/114 "2003-02-13T23:01:34Z")
**Titanic.** It had a very pretty set. The main characters were all pretty. If that is your criteria, then yes it was the best “picture” of 1997. If you’re like me, and I know I am, and like movies with such elements as “plot” and “acting” and “historical accuracy” than it was the worst movie of 1997. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/115 "2003-02-13T23:23:46Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Evil Death \* > \*\*No, it’s just arrogant, insulting, high-handed and patronising. I hope you enjoy being the first person on my ignore list. \*\* This would be me pointing you in the direction of the [rules regarding Ye Olde Ignore Liste](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106617). Having said that, I will quickly scamper away from the whole war movie debate. ---
**Author:** ![Bomzaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Bomzaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bomzaway)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/116 "2003-02-13T23:31:54Z")
I too cast my vote for SIL. I own both films and love them both, but I’ve watched SIL repeatedly. SPR I’ve seen only a handful of times and I usually fast forward through much of it. SIL is brilliantly written, directed, cast, scored, and acted. The script is fast paced and witty, and I swear I discover something new about that film with every third viewing. SPR is good, and is an important film, but it does not hold one’s interest for the duration. I think a films ability to be watched over and over again is a good measuring stick for how great a film is. As for audience reactions after viewing the film, that’s no gauge of a films worth. SPR was sad, depressing, and emotionally draining to watch. What did you expect? Everyone to whistling Zip a dee doo da out their assholes? SIL was upbeat, funny, had repeatable lines that evoked laughs; of COURSE people are going to be more animated afterwards. SIL deseverved that Oscar. ---
**Author:** ![Bomzaway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e480ec/32.png) [@Bomzaway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bomzaway)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/117 "2003-02-13T23:32:59Z")
Oops! Please excuse my spelling errors…I forgot to proofread. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/118 "2003-02-14T01:43:29Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by astorian_ > Miller actually proves my point, by saying it was only on SUBSEQUENT viewings of “Private Ryan” that he decided he didn’t like it. I suspect that, like many of Spielberg’s harshest critics, he found it hard to resist the film’s appeal on first viewing, and needed time to talk himself into hating it. This is teh second time in this thread that someone has accused me of not liking a film because of some secret bias against the people who made the movie, and it’s starting to piss me off. You don’t have to agree with my opinion, you don’t have to like the reasons that form my opinion, but you could at least have enough respect for me not assume that I’m _lying_ about why I did or did not like something. **astorian** , I don’t write for your local paper. Please do not ascribe the opinions of the movie reviewer of the _Jerkwater Gazette_ to me simply because it’s easier to rebut his opinions than mine. I never go into a movie wanting to hate it. If I had my druthers, every movie I see would be the best movie I’ve ever seen. I wanted to like **Saving Private Ryan** , because I’ve been a Spielberg fan since I could walk. And on the first viewing, watching on the giant screen and pumped up with the energy of a theater full of excited people, yeah, I enjoyed it. Especially because I didn’t try to engage it critically while I was watching it, as is my habit with new movies. I don’t regret the eight bucks I spent that night because I was entertained for the length of the movie. But a movie experience does not end at the theater door, and the more I thought about **SPR** , the more dissatisfied I became. The characters didn’t stay with me in any but the most superficial ways. The plot was unbelievable and unsupportable. And the more I thought about why I had enjoyed it at first, the clearer it became that the film had not earned that response from me, but had arrived at it by blatant manipulation. On the surface, it seems like a great movie, but the more you delve into it, the weaker it gets. > [@](#): > > _Orignally posted by RikWriter_ > Sorry, but Three Kings characterization was its worst feature. Clooney’s character was flat (although his wooden acting didn’t help), Marky Mark was intense but overall his character was just dull and unengaging. I was greatly surprised by the performances by both Walberg and Clooney. I’d already written both of them off as Hollywood pretty boys. Wahlberg in particular blew me away, as I hadn’t seen any of his work outside the music industry. I thought he did a superb job of managing the character arc from a rather narrow-minded, “just want to get home” character to somebody willing to give up everything, even his own life, to save a bunch of people he’d earlier dismissed as “towel-heads.” Clooney tends to have a smaller range, but this role was tailor-made for him. In many ways, it was Dr. Doug Ross with a rifle instead of a stethoscope. But Clooney deserves kudos for playing to his strengths and throwing his celebrity behind smaller films, like _Three Kings_, that would usually go unnoticed. > [@](#): > > The attempt to make the Iraqi torturer more “human” came across as fake—his “my wife died by your bomb” speech has been done in a dozen other movies, and better. Name one. Cliff Curtis stole the entire movie in that one scene. How many other torture scenes have you seen that can stir as much empathy for the torturer as for the victim? > [@](#): > > The dopey guy (I can’t remember the actor’s name and the character’s name was utterly forgettable, as was the character) was pure comic-relief stereotyping. That was Spike Jonez, who directed the excellent _Being John Malkovich_. To dismiss him as “pure comic-relief stereotyping” is to do a grave disservice to the character, whose character arc I found to be the most moving. Characters who are “pure comic-relief” do not get dramatic death scenes. His dying request to be buried in the Muslim shrine highlights the growth all of the characters in this movie go through, from people who are in Iraq just to do a job into people who are involved in the immediate and vital life of the citizens they were ostensibly sent there to protect. > [@](#): > > The Army bad guys were cardboard cutouts and the only halfway real characters were the Iraqi civilians. The fact that you interpreted this movie to even have any bad guys goes a long way towards showing how little you comprehended it. > [@](#): > > It was a well plotted movie, I will give it that, but the acting was so-so, the character development was comic-book level and the action was totally unrealistic. I disagree with your criticism of the action, bt it’s hardly worth defending as this was a very rare creature: a war movie whose central motivation was not a bunch of action scenes, but rather a meditation on the nature of war and the responsibilties of those who wage it. Contrast with **SPR** , which was a bald-faced exercise in flag-waving and underhanded emotional manipulation. _Three Kings_ was a truly great movie. **SPR** was, at best, effective propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![NoCoolUserName](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5fc32e/32.png) [@NoCoolUserName](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NoCoolUserName)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/119 "2003-02-14T02:04:22Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Roadfood \* > \*\*_The Longest Day_ is still the greatest war movie ever made. > > \*\* Have you seen _All Quiet on the Western Front_? I’d suggest it might be better than _The Longest Day_. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![ISiddiqui](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/97f17d/32.png) [@ISiddiqui](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ISiddiqui)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2003, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031/120 "2003-02-14T05:21:49Z")
> [@](#): > > You don’t have to agree with my opinion, you don’t have to like the reasons that form my opinion, but you could at least have enough respect for me not assume that I’m lying about why I did or did not like something. Your pervading vitrol leads people to question the reason for that vitrol. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-academy-award-movies/154031.md?page=7)