# Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 15, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518 "2010-03-15T04:12:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/221 "2010-03-17T01:26:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > Not his fault if the bitch was dumb enough to believe him, is it? Guy’s gotta do what it takes to close the deal… take it from me, I mean, aloof hipster sex is okay in a pinch, but NOTHING beats heartbreak pussy. Girl, you so sexy with your mascara all smeared like that… you know you’ll always be my number one, right? That other girl you emailed, talking about soap operas and shit, she’s just some crazy stalker! I don’t know WHAT she’s talking about, we had sex. She’s crazy! You know she’s just jealous of what we have, right? Yeah, there’s a smile. You’re beautiful, girl, and could you loan me some cash? I saw that fifty in your purse… I’ll call you, you know I will. I think I love you. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/222 "2010-03-17T01:34:59Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > How 'bout that thread where you said that if a man and a woman had a relationship where they both agreed that if there was an unresolvable difference of opinion the man got to break the tie, she’s either weak-willed or … Dio gets owned. Film at 11. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/223 "2010-03-17T01:44:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This scenario would only be analogous if coworker 3 had something to do with putting the sugar in soda. She’d have to do a whole lot more with that, err, analogy than that to make it work. > [@Sidney Evgeni Jordan](#): > > I think I love you. Ditto. ---
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/224 "2010-03-17T02:16:02Z")
Wow, people… just, wow. First: My status as mod and as long-time poster are, in fact, irrelevant to this thread. I am posting completely as a civilian here, and will continue to do so. Any moderation undertaken by my colleagues is being done completely of their own accord – I’m not reporting a damned thing or asking for help or protection on the mod loop. Second – damn, there’s so much bullshit being spewed here I don’t even know where to begin. Relationships vs. sexual ethics? Whatever. The situation from my point of view: JP and I have a friendship that includes having sex together from time to time, without expectations of sexual exclusivity on my part or, apparently, his. I consider that a relationship. You are welcome to use the word in whatever other way you choose, but to say that I don’t have a “relationship” with JP because it doesn’t fit your model of heterosexual exclusivity strikes me as pretty narrow. The history of that relationship: I met him four years ago, we began seeing each other fairly casually. At the time he said that he was recently divorced (i.e., the divorce was recently finalized, they’d been separated for several years prior to that), he was dating, and, according to him, not really looking for anything serious. Having ascertained his status at that time, I chose to believe that he would let me know if his status changed, and thus did not reinterrogate him every time I saw him as to who he was dating, what he was doing with them, or what he was telling those people. I also did not go into any detail with him as to who else I was dating and what I was doing with them. It was my understanding that if either of us met someone else and wanted to be exclusive with that person, we would break it off with each other. During those four years, I have not been with another person with whom I wanted to be exclusive, though there have been periods when I saw more or less of JP, depending on what was going on in my life, sexually or otherwise. There were also periods when he was more or less available to me, presumably because of what was going on in his life. He didn’t break things off completely with me, so it was my understanding that there was no one in his life he wanted to be exclusive with – since he was continuing to see me. QED. _Given that we had a non-exclusive relationship, I didn’t ask for explanations about what he was doing or who he was seeing – or, for that matter, who he was doing – when he was not with me, because, given that it was a non-exclusive relationship, it was, as far as I was concerned, none of my business._ A note on chronology: If he knew Maria at all when he and I first hooked up, he’d just met her (according to Maria’s timeline), so there wasn’t an existing relationship that I was interfering with – and of course, according to JP, he didn’t meet her till three years later, i.e., one year ago. Either way (and here’s some fresh meat – I don’t think that the time difference matters in terms of the sexual ethics of what I have done), the fundamental point is the same: there was no exclusive relationship with Maria when JP and I started seeing each other. If, at some point in his relationship with Maria, which started no earlier than the same time he and I met, he either told her or allowed her to believe that he was being faithful to her, that clearly would be an asshole move on his part – but it’s nothing I would be expected to know under the rules of the relationship as I understood them. It is therefore not a moral failing on my part, and my conscience is utterly untroubled on this point. “You should have known, you should have known…” – no, sorry, there’s no reason why I should have. JP and I will have a conversation about this, and depending on the upshot of that conversation I either will or will not continue seeing him. But guess what – I have no plans to do anything differently going forward with any guy I should meet in the future. Having determined that this hypothetical guy is single (unmarried, unattached) at the time I start seeing him, I will not assume that I need to reconfirm that single status every time I see him or every time I get naked with him, or at whatever regular interval you think I need to be running the background check. Because, yeah, it is a matter of trust, and I trust that my potential partner will let me know if there’s any change in his availability, and I will not insult that trust by asking him, once or repeatedly, “so have you started lying to anyone else you’re seeing yet?” ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/225 "2010-03-17T02:45:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > How 'bout that thread where you said that if a man and a woman had a relationship where they both agreed that if there was an unresolvable difference of opinion the man got to break the tie, she’s either weak-willed or [the guy smacks her around](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3041580&postcount=134) Wow, that’s a 7 year old thread, and you used a tactic you’ve used before of single quoting a post in order to conceal all context. Anyone who reads the thread and the post in context will understand it. It is stull true, by the way, that a woman who “agrees” to let a man make all decisions for her and “submit” to his manly authority is weak-willed. Of couse she is. You disagree? > [@](#): > > Or…if a woman reports the local crack-house to the cops and the drug dealer burns down her house with her and her five kids in it, [(she) has to take some blame too. Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against torturing the murderer, but what the fuck did the bitch THINK was going to happen is she decided to become the neighborhood narc? If you care about your children you don’t go around provoking sociopaths. if she had minded her own fucking business, she and her kids would still be alive.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?threadid=140083%29) See, it’s better for your kids to have a drug-dealer and his junkies living next door to you than to try to…y’know…get rid of them. Per Dio, the non-judgmental, of course. Wow, you’re really stuck in 2002. What does this post have to do with relationships? > [@](#): > > Or polyamorous relationships are immature (can’t find the link for that one) It’s true. Polyamorous “relationships” are immature. > [@](#): > > Or any of a bunch of threads [about people who like to do master/sub stuff](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=460797&page=3)…which, if you do, means the woman was abused as a child and has low self-esteem. (note to everyone else, he tries to mix in a bunch of “OMG! WON’T SOMEONE THINK OF THE KIDZ?!”) More dishonesty on your part. I didn’t express any opinion about people who like to do master/sub stuff. That thread was about people who were doing it in front of their kids. > [@](#): > > And there are probably dozens of other equally shrill, crazed, frothing-at-the-mouth judgmental posts about any relationship that isn’t exactly like the one you allegedly have. You’ve provided none so far, nor will you be able to find any. Am I supposed to be hurt by that “allegedly?” Sorry, but you’re missing on that. It gratifies me to know that my contenment with my marriage makes you unhappy, though. > [@](#): > > So…yeah…thanks for a good laugh but frankly, _Dr Laura_’s radio comments are less shrill and judgmental and prudish than your posts. And that’s saying something, given that she’s possibly the biggest harpy on the radio. Let’s see some cites, then. So far, you’ve provided zero. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/226 "2010-03-17T02:47:35Z")
> [@Library\_Boy](#): > > Where does being glad they suffered a painful death from cancer rate on the scale? It depends on who did the suffering. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/227 "2010-03-17T03:17:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Wow, that’s a 7 year old thread, and you used a tactic you’ve used before of single quoting a post in order to conceal all context. Anyone who reads the thread and the post in context will understand it. Then you have nothing to fear by me doing it. And I seem to recall you bitching about someone linking to a whole thread and you saying you weren’t about to wade through the whole thing to find one post > [@](#): > > Let’s see some cites, then. No U. :rolleyes: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/228 "2010-03-17T03:41:15Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > Then you have nothing to fear by me doing it. Who’s afraid? > [@](#): > > And I seem to recall you bitching about someone linking to a whole thread and you saying you weren’t about to wade through the whole thing to find one post I have no memory of that, but it is possible to link to a post without pulling it out of the thread. [See?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=12232539#post12232539) ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 12:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/229 "2010-03-17T12:21:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Cite? He was sleeping with Maria and twicks (and apparently several other women as well). Generally, if you are sleeping with someone else, you aren’t in a committed relationship. (Your partner may believe you are, you may tell her you are, but that is not the truth. The truth is your actions. Maybe I have a strange definition of a ‘committed relationship’ but I think its where you don’t sleep with other people.) ---
**Author:** ![BoBettie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4af34b/32.png) [@BoBettie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoBettie)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/230 "2010-03-17T13:16:26Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I think for some of you this has nothing to do with twickster, JD, or Maria. Quoted for truth. FWIW, I understand the “amusement” part for Twickster- This woman emailed her AND the other women she suspects of having sex with JP with the bombshell revelation that she was in a committed relationship with him and probably expected her and everyone else she mailed to do a big, explosive drama filled e-mail flamewar with JP in the middle. Instead she got an honest, blunt, straightforward reply about what was going on from Twickster’s point of view and she asked to be left out of any further correspondence regarding the mess. So? I love the suggestion that she couch it in terms of “we’re more than friends.” No, they’re not “more than friends”. They’re having sexual relations and that’s what Maria deserves to know. I don’t think that’s a harsh way to put it at all. Sometimes the truth hurts but it needs to be told. I think that Maria was looking for drama by sending out her “Hi Ladies” message to the women she suspects of being with “her man” and her “I am willing to share information with you” business. Come on. Twickster’s reply reflects exactly what she feels: She’s been screwing this guy, she doesn’t give a crap who else he’s screwing (and why should she? His infidelity is on HIM. Is she supposed to have him followed or something to see who else he’s seeing?) and she doesn’t want any further contact from Maria. The end. People bitch all the time about other people who can’t take hints, but you know what? If someone has bad breath I’m inclined to say “Hey, you have bad breath and should do something about that.” rather than “Hey ,want a mint? No really, you WANT a mint.” Just say what you mean so everyone knows where they stand. Everything doesn’t need to be sugarcoated, some of us can take the truth, even when it hurts. Maria has no doubt about where Twickster stands at this point and now Maria needs to deal with JP. As for Twickster having the poor taste to bang a guy with poor grammar skills, you have got to be kidding. As quoted above, this has a LOT more to do with the people in this thread and about zero to do with Maria, JP and Twickster. ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/231 "2010-03-17T13:23:31Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > He was sleeping with Maria and twicks (and apparently several other women as well). Generally, if you are sleeping with someone else, you aren’t in a committed relationship. > > (Your partner may believe you are, you may tell her you are, but that is not the truth. The truth is your actions. Maybe I have a strange definition of a ‘committed relationship’ but I think its where you don’t sleep with other people.) I don’t think it’s a weird definition but I think it doesn’t freaking matter and you’re nitpicking a point that has no bearing on the situation in the way you think it does. I mean, no shit JP wasn’t in a committed relationship. That doesn’t change the fact that (taking Maria at her word, obviously) he deceived her and is causing her pain. Getting caught up in, “well he wasn’t in a committed relationship by definition!” to me is like finding out that your best friend blabbed something you said was a secret and instead of saying what a shitty thing it was to do, saying, “Obviously, by the very definition, it wasn’t a secret, then.” ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/232 "2010-03-17T13:27:16Z")
The truth doesn’t need to include telling the other person that their issues are a “soap opera.” Further, I really didn’t get the impression from Maria’s quoted email that she was hoping for a big explosive drama. Rather, she had these emails, and JP was telling her they were totally innocuous, and she wanted confirmation one way or another. I fail to see the hilarity in a woman who has just found out that someone she thought was in a one-on-one relationship with her has apparently been having sex with a handful of other people on the side. Unlike **Dio** , I don’t think that twickster has an obligation to break things off with JP necessarily. (Although since she is apparently in a relationship with someone who 1) has a lot of sex with a lot of different people, and 2) has no problem lying to his girlfriends, I hope they’re being extremely serious about using protection.) But I do find it really distasteful and unpleasant that she apparently thinks the whole thing is so funny, and I think her email to Maria was unnecessarily rude. As for who’s lying, Maria or JP - well, impossible to say for sure, obviously, but all of that BS about “I don’t know how she got into my laptop!! She’s psycho! I broke things off with her months ago!!” just rings totally, totally false to me. ---
**Author:** ![Shade](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2bfe46/32.png) [@Shade](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shade)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/233 "2010-03-17T14:18:49Z")
> [@zweisamkeit](#): > > I mean, no shit JP wasn’t in a committed relationship. That doesn’t change the fact that (taking Maria at her word, obviously) he deceived her and is causing her pain. Indeed, but see below: > [@](#): > > Getting caught up in, “well he wasn’t in a committed relationship by definition!” to me is like finding out that your best friend blabbed something you said was a secret and instead of saying what a shitty thing it was to do, saying, “Obviously, by the very definition, it wasn’t a secret, then.” I think the point is that if A and B already share a committed relationship (or a secret, or an exclusive employer/employee relationship) and then you come along and sleep with B (or let B tell you a shared secret, or hire B for some casual work) then you bear some responsibility for ruining a relationship which was previously working, and possibly would have gone on working. Whether consciously or inadvertently, damaged the relationship and may feel partially culpable for that (unless B were totally convincing). Contrariwise, if you’re already sleeping with B, or already know the secret, or already hire B occasionally, and then B forms a relationship with A he lets A believe is exclusive, then there’s nothing between B and A to destroy, the relationship was already a lie and was very likely doomed from the beginning. So it’s equally devastating to A, in that what was _from their point of view_ committed was broken, but you’re not really culpable as you didn’t break it yourself, you only revealed that it was broken. I think this is why people are approaching “committed” from two different directions. It’s presumably exacerbated that in many people’s experience, relationships are typically exclusive, and all the non-exclusive relationships they’ve seen have been because someone’s been lying and someone else has been wilfully blind – whereas some people’s experience has been almost the reverse. ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/234 "2010-03-17T14:54:58Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I fail to see the hilarity in a woman who has just found out that someone she thought was in a one-on-one relationship with her has apparently been having sex with a handful of other people on the side. > … > (Although since she is apparently in a relationship with someone who 1) has a lot of sex with a lot of different people, and 2) has no problem lying to his girlfriends, I hope they’re being extremely serious about using protection.) The thing that puzzles me most on an ongoing basis about this thread is why the default assumption seems to be that Maria is credible. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/235 "2010-03-17T14:56:37Z")
It’s not my default assumption. It’s my assumption based on JP’s reaction, as provided by twickster. I could obviously be wrong, of course, but IMO JP has no more claim to credibility here than Maria does. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/236 "2010-03-17T15:10:44Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The thing that puzzles me most on an ongoing basis about this thread is why the default assumption seems to be that Maria is credible. It’s not. It’s more that there is no reason not to believe that Maria is credible. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/237 "2010-03-17T15:27:01Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > He was sleeping with Maria and twicks (and apparently several other women as well). Generally, if you are sleeping with someone else, you aren’t in a committed relationship. This is really stupid logic. You’re saying that cheating invalidates commitments, therefore if you cheat, you aren’t really cheating because cheating cancels commitments. So you’re saying that when Twickster says she doesn’t sleep with men in committed relationships, all it means is that she doesn’t sleep with men who don’t sleep with her. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/238 "2010-03-17T15:32:35Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > The thing that puzzles me most on an ongoing basis about this thread is why the default assumption seems to be that Maria is credible. No one has made that assumption, but her side is slightly more credible since slimeball says he broke up with her months ago, yet she somehow still has access to his home and his computer. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/239 "2010-03-17T15:35:05Z")
> [@BoBettie](#): > > Quoted for truth. FWIW, I understand the “amusement” part for Twickster- This woman emailed her AND the other women she suspects of having sex with JP with the bombshell revelation that she was in a committed relationship with him and probably expected her and everyone else she mailed to do a big, explosive drama filled e-mail flamewar with JP in the middle. I don’t see any of that in the email at all, but even if she thought that, why is that funny? Ha ha , what a stupid bitch, she though other women would care if they found out the guy they were banging was chetaing on somebody. Dumb whore. Let’s laugh at her. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/240 "2010-03-17T15:41:50Z")
> [@Shade](#): > > Indeed, but see below: > > I think the point is that if A and B already share a committed relationship (or a secret, or an exclusive employer/employee relationship) and then you come along and sleep with B (or let B tell you a shared secret, or hire B for some casual work) then you bear some responsibility for ruining a relationship which was previously working, and possibly would have gone on working. Whether consciously or inadvertently, damaged the relationship and may feel partially culpable for that (unless B were totally convincing). > > Contrariwise, if you’re already sleeping with B, or already know the secret, or already hire B occasionally, and then B forms a relationship with A he lets A believe is exclusive, then there’s nothing between B and A to destroy, the relationship was already a lie and was very likely doomed from the beginning. So it’s equally devastating to A, in that what was _from their point of view_ committed was broken, but you’re not really culpable as you didn’t break it yourself, you only revealed that it was broken. > > I think this is why people are approaching “committed” from two different directions. > > It’s presumably exacerbated that in many people’s experience, relationships are typically exclusive, and all the non-exclusive relationships they’ve seen have been because someone’s been lying and someone else has been wilfully blind – whereas some people’s experience has been almost the reverse. So Tiger Woods isn’t a cheater then, bcause he was banging chicks before he got married, and kept banging them after he got married. Sure, he didn’t bother to tell his wife, but he wasn’t in a committed relationship, so it wasn’t cheating, and she was a stupid bitch for thinking he was. That’s basically the pro-Twickster side of this thread. There is no such thing as cheating. No one has a right to be upset about being cheated on, because cheating is a _de facto_ invalidation of commitment. And not only do they have no right to be upset, they should be made objects of mockery and the people their husbands cheat with should taunt them about it and accuse them of “dragging me into your soap opera.” Christ almighty. I’d like to see this kind of argument get used in contract law. “Obviously I don’t have a contract, your honor, because I broke it.” The response of the judge would be very entertaing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518.md?page=13)