# Bad boys, bad boys, whatcha gonna do? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [March 15, 2010, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518 "2010-03-15T04:12:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/121 "2010-03-16T14:27:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes, the smart thing to do is assume the girlfriend is a lying slut and continue fucking her boyfriend. That’s the most ethical and compassionate way to operate. > > But on the other hand, what if the baby turns out to be Hitler? Bad logic is bad. Do you know anything about relationships or do you get all of that from Dr. Phil? You’re in the deep end without your swimmies, and you’re sinking fast. Come back to the thread when you some cogent, rational comments. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/122 "2010-03-16T14:30:57Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Please explain why the fuck you believe a single word of what this woman is saying? Please explain why I shouldn’t. Please explain why it’s more ethical to dismiss her than to believe her. Please explain why the boyfriend should be believed. Please explain why she was at his home going through his laptop if they had broken up months ago. I make the assumption that will allow me to err in the direction of the least harm. If there is doubt that a person is telling the truth about their relationship status. Don’t fuck them. It’s not like **Twickster’s** in love with this guy. She admits she has no emotional attachment. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/123 "2010-03-16T14:36:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Please explain why I shouldn’t. Please explain why it’s more ethical to dismiss her than to believe her. Please explain why the boyfriend should be believed. Cut the shit. This isn’t ethics class. Do I need to use smaller words to explain that in Twickster’s position, I would believe the person I know over the person I don’t know? Please explain why she was at his home going through his laptop if they had broken up months ago. > [@](#): > > I make the assumption that will allow me to err in the direction of the least harm. If there is doubt that a person is telling the truth about their relationship status. Don’t fuck them. It’s not like **Twickster’s** in love with this guy. She admits she has no emotional attachment. If someome I trust tells me I shouldn’t have doubts, I probably won’t. Making an assumption that someone I trust is lying to me doesn’t make ANY sense. If Twickster has doubts then it’s her call as to what she should or shouldn’t do. ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/124 "2010-03-16T14:43:04Z")
Missed the edit window: > [@](#): > > Please explain why she was at his home going through his laptop if they had broken up months ago. How the fuck would I know? Like I said maybe JP is a douchebag and is lying all around. But you don’t KNOW that, do you? Instead you’re happy to blindly believe the woman in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/125 "2010-03-16T14:49:05Z")
Wow, you want to lecture me about logic, and you’re saying that she should trust him because she “knows him.” What she knows is that she’s fucking, and of course, men never lie to people they’re fucking, do they? he fact that his relationship status is not known with certainty is reason not to fuck him. You don’t fuck somebody because they _might_ not be lying. And all of life is an ethics test. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/126 "2010-03-16T14:52:22Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Missed the edit window: > > How the fuck would I know? > > Like I said maybe JP is a douchebag and is lying all around. > > But you don’t KNOW that, do you? Instead you’re happy to blindly believe the woman in this case. Even if the girlfriend is not telling the truth, no harm is done by operating as if she is. If she IS telling the truth, then a lot of harm could be done. You err in the direction that has the last potential to cause harm. That’s what’s ethical. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/127 "2010-03-16T14:55:00Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > If someome I trust tells me I shouldn’t have doubts, I probably won’t. Making an assumption that someone I trust is lying to me doesn’t make ANY sense. If Twickster has doubts then it’s her call as to what she should or shouldn’t do. Where are you getting that she “trusts” this guy? That hasn’t been my impressiona at all. My impression is that this is a very casual relationship to her. And guys lie to women to fuck them all the time. It actually is possible to trust somebody who’s lying. Especially when sex is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/128 "2010-03-16T14:56:54Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > In a tone of sneering condescension, thn going to laugh at her on a message board, then continuing to fuck her boyfriend (and is she telling Maria THAT?). I didn’t see any sneering condescension in the note, she appears to be laughing at the situation and not the person here, and she’s going to talk with JP before making any decisions about their relationship. Three strikes, you’re out. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/129 "2010-03-16T15:05:49Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Or maybe I’m just tactless. I’m not at all clear why people are taking my amusement at the situation – which at least a few of you are willing to admit is kind of funny as a situation of “here’s a bombshell!” and “nope, sorry, no it isn’t” – and insisting that I’m taunting her or in any way expressing that amusement to her. I think that people would be less put off by the e-mail you sent her, if you weren’t expressing a flip attitude about it to us. I mean, the e-mail was blunt and I agree with others that it could have been a little more tactful. Taken by itself, though, no, I don’t think it expresses amusement to her. What I don’t get, though, is what’s so funny about what you say above…that she thought she might be dropping a bomb on you, but it wasn’t. Your attitude of “Nope, I never cared about the guy like you did, and therefore don’t care if he’s a liar and a cheater like you do! Sucks to be you!” is just…not nice. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/130 "2010-03-16T15:09:45Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I didn’t see any sneering condescension in the note, The note drips with it. Accusing the person who’s boyfriend you’re fucking of dragging you “into their soap opera” is both sneering and condescending. The entire tone of th email was callous and belligerent, > [@](#): > > she appears to be laughing at the situation and not the person here There’s no difference. > [@](#): > > and she’s going to talk with JP before making any decisions about their relationship. She says that now, but initially she said she told him they were still ok, and that everything was fine. Her “talk” with him is not going to elicit anything but whatever he wants to tell her, so I wouldn’t say she’s exactly doing an in depth investigation. The ethical thing to do is just cut the guy off. First do no harm, as the doctors say. You don’t fuck people because you convince yourself there’s a possibility that that they might not be lying. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/131 "2010-03-16T15:33:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Please explain why she was at his home going through his laptop if they had broken up months ago. This is kind of a sticky point and points to JP being the liar. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/132 "2010-03-16T15:43:07Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > The reality here is that if Maria didn’t want to know the facts, she wouldn’t have asked. And if she wasn’t prepared to hear the unvarnished truth, she shouldn’t have asked. “How is Grandpa going to be?” “Well, there is no doubt that he will die painfully. In fact, he is probably suffering unbelievable pain right now, and just isn’t telling you. It will be very humiliating for him when he loses control of his bladder and bowels. Most patients at this point are suicidal. But he’ll hang on for a few more months after that, quickly degrading. Hospital born infections are a big problem in this place, so one of those might kill him first. We just can’t seem to keep those things under control! When he finally kicks the bucket, he’ll probably be fully conscious of the pain he is going through. In fact, this diagnosis is the worst possible outcome. But please, don’t drag me into your soap opera! In fact, in a certain light, it is kind of a funny scenerio.” No. Sometimes you should not give the unvarnished truth. Sometimes, the only explanation for giving that kind of truth is that you are a callous person. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/133 "2010-03-16T16:02:57Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Wherever there’s a conflict between Maria and J.P. Lochinvar, she credits JP as truthful. > > I’m not so sure I agree with that. But one fact might change my mind. > > Was Maria copied on the “She’s crazy” e-mail JP sent to you, **twickster**? > > If she was, then I agree that Maria’s making shit up and that JP is (at least now) not in a committed relationship. If she wasn’t, then I fail to see why you would believe that he’s not telling Maria, “Oh, I’m sorry, it’s all over now,” or some variant of “NOW I really love you and you alone.” Let’s put ourselves in JPs place, and assume there was a miscommunication regarding the commitment levels of the relationship with Maria. I certainly wouldn’t cc her on that particular email, but there would certainly be a follow up to clear the air. Turning to **Twickster’s** situation and imagining ourselves in her shoes now. If one wanted to be safe, and sure they weren’t violating their rule about seeing people who were in committed relationships with others, about the only way to do that would be to break it off with JP or confirm with Maria the miscommunication has been cleared up. If she understands the rules of the relationship, as understood by all parties, and has either bowed out or accepted them, then continue the relationship with JP. The most practical, non emotional, reason for being tactful to your fuck buddy’s other fuck buddies is because when you sleep with someone you’re sleeping with everyone they slept/sleep with. That’s just a cold hard fact, as evidenced by the truly frightening situation the person in the story **Freudian Slit** linked to. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/134 "2010-03-16T16:08:53Z")
I’m trying to figure out the logic here. When a person - in this case a woman - decides the relationship is monogamous, it becomes so? No matter if the other person disagrees or is already seeing other people? And the other people he is seeing are obligated to cut off the relationship because he’s now become someone else’s boyfriend? ---
**Author:** ![Contrapuntal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e274bd/32.png) [@Contrapuntal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Contrapuntal)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/135 "2010-03-16T16:12:09Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m trying to figure out the logic here. > > When a person - in this case a woman - decides the relationship is monogamous, it becomes so? No matter if the other person disagrees or is already seeing other people? And the other people he is seeing are obligated to cut off the relationship because he’s now become someone else’s boyfriend? No, if she’s truly delusional about the relationship then all bets are off. Has anyone suggested that \*\*twickster \*\*needs to stop her affair if Maria is making all this up? Has anyone suggested it only takes one partner to declare a relationship to be monogamous? Where? ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/136 "2010-03-16T16:25:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > T > She says that now, but initially she said she told him they were still ok, and that everything was fine. Her “talk” with him is not going to elicit anything but whatever he wants to tell her, so I wouldn’t say she’s exactly doing an in depth investigation. The ethical thing to do is just cut the guy off. First do no harm, as the doctors say. You don’t fuck people because you convince yourself there’s a possibility that that they might not be lying. Let me ask this again. Do you have any actual, practical experience with relationships? Any at all? I don’t want to sound mean spirited here, but you really do seem utterly clueless when it comes to how things actually work in relationships. Twickster is under no obligation, ethical or otherwise to cut off the relationship she has with JP simply because some stranger claims she has a long term relationship with the guy. She doesn’t need to do an “in depth” investigation. If JP is someone she trusts to be truthful then the story is over. If she has doubts, I presume, as someone with a working brain, she’ll consider things more in depth. Let me say this too: cold hard logic doesn’t always work properly when it comes to interpersonal relationships. What you seem to see as black and white A+B=C conclusion is not so clear when it comes to dealing with people and their emotions. Even Sven, if I concede that there are situations where the unvarnished truth would be ill advised, will you stop with the grandpa analogy? I completely understand that tact is needed sometimes. I work in a position where I often have to weigh my comments and feedback carefully so that I can get my message across without being blunt or harsh. * * * There are two different issues going on in this thread. One is Twickster’s email response, which people can hash over ad infinitum as to whether she was appropriate, inappropriate or somewhere in between. People can draw conclusions based on the facts of what she wrote. The other is the relationship between Twickster & JP and the woman and JP. Everything related to this second discussion topic is entirely speculation. People, myself included tend to draw conclusions based on our own inbuilt biases. But, IMO, YMMV, there isn’t enough actual information to draw any reasonable conclusions as to who’s lying and who’s telling the truth. ---
**Author:** ![Mtgman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Mtgman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mtgman)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/137 "2010-03-16T16:26:31Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m trying to figure out the logic here. > > When a person - in this case a woman - decides the relationship is monogamous, it becomes so? No matter if the other person disagrees or is already seeing other people? And the other people he is seeing are obligated to cut off the relationship because he’s now become someone else’s boyfriend? That’s not my PoV, but it appears to be the rules **Twickster** set for herself. She said she doesn’t see people in committed relationships. Logically that can only mean people whose other partner believes the relationship is exclusive. The one she’s getting with being the committed one makes the whole getting with part a non-starter. If you approach a guy and he says “I’m in a committed relationship” then you don’t need to self-censor your relationship with him, he will do that for you. The only time it comes up is when the guy is willing but someone else may not be, if they knew. Thus the rule can only serve to keep **Twickster** from getting in the middle of the relationship between the guy and the woman who believes they are exclusive. It’s the status of that exclusivity as explicit, implicit, or miscommunicated that is in doubt in this situation. Enjoy, Steven ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/138 "2010-03-16T16:28:09Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > Let me ask this again. Do you have any actual, practical experience with relationships? Any at all? > > I don’t want to sound mean spirited here, but you really do seem utterly clueless when it comes to how things actually work in relationships LOL! \*He \*sounds clueless? Yet you’re the one who thinks if the woman asks a question about the affair, \*\*twixie \*\*should go into the gory details about last Wednesday’s blow job. You, sir, are hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/139 "2010-03-16T16:29:15Z")
> [@twickster](#): > > Or maybe I’m just tactless. I’m not at all clear why people are taking my amusement at the situation – which at least a few of you are willing to admit is kind of funny as a situation of “here’s a bombshell!” and “nope, sorry, no it isn’t” – and insisting that I’m taunting her or in any way expressing that amusement to her. For me, the reason would be your use of “soap opera” to describe her situation. This is a dismissive, trivializing way to describe what you acknowledge is for her a serious and painful situation. I agree with you that her note had a suggested tone that was off-putting. (“Ladies, this guy’s been scamming us all! Let’s gang up and get 'im!”) But if in fact she reasonably believed she was his One and Only, I’m inclined to cut her a bit of slack. By your own admission, you are unfazed by this revelation, so it’s obviously not emotional turmoil that’s leading you to be callous about her pain. And I believe you were, so a small degree, callous. > [@](#): > > And, **Bricker** , yes, obviously JP and I will be having further discussions about what happened, and I will not make any decisions about my future relationship with him until after those discussions. That’s good to know… but it wasn’t “obvious” at all from your initial description, especially your recounting of telling JP that you two were “good.” Certainly that doesn’t suggest to me that you were planning on exploring the issue further, but I’m glad to hear that you are. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2010, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518/140 "2010-03-16T16:31:08Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > I’m trying to figure out the logic here. > > When a person - in this case a woman - decides the relationship is monogamous, it becomes so? No matter if the other person disagrees or is already seeing other people? And the other people he is seeing are obligated to cut off the relationship because he’s now become someone else’s boyfriend? This is all irrelevant. The situation is that if you are not sure the person you are fucking is telling the truth about being single, you don’t fuck them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-boys-bad-boys-whatcha-gonna-do/532518.md?page=8)