# Bad first albums / great second albums? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [February 15, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238 "2005-02-15T19:29:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chastain86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Chastain86](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chastain86)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/1 "2005-02-15T19:29:05Z")
First, a preface. There’s a pervasive school of thought that music artists today are under a much greater strain to hit home runs out of the part on their first at-bat. Twenty years ago, if your first album didn’t sell well, your record company (who undoubtedly saw your talent, or likely wouldn’t have signed you) generally had the courtesy to stick with you through the production of your second album. Today, many believe that stars don’t have that luxury. So I’d like to get some thoughts – what are some great second releases, that immediately followed up poorly-selling, poorly-promoted, or badly-made first albums? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/2 "2005-02-15T19:46:24Z")
Bob Dylan springs to mind. While the first album was okay, it was more normal folk, and a pale reflection of the second album with "Hard Rain, “Masters of War,” among others. The most shocking thing in **Chronicles** to me was that he didn’t start writing until he had moved to New York. I had always assumed Dylan had written from the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/3 "2005-02-15T19:59:42Z")
I do not know how well the albums did (or did not do) but I was never very fond of Pink Floyd when Syd Barret was with the band. Not till Roger Waters came on board do I think the band really began to shine. That said I know that Syd had a lasting effect on the band that went well past his leaving the band early on. Whether you can say Roger Waters turned the band into what it became or whether Waters just got on for the ride at the right time I can’t say. Nonetheless I think their first albums weren’t so hot. I did nto like Rush’s first efforts either but again do not know if they were successful anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/4 "2005-02-15T20:08:45Z")
Alanis Morisette, although “Jagged Little Pill” was her third album. And AFAIK, her first bubblegum pop albums were successful. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![down\_by\_law](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/65b543/32.png) [@down\_by\_law](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/down_by_law)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/5 "2005-02-15T21:00:07Z")
i thought **radiohead** ’s first album, **pablo honey** , was pretty weak. sure, _creep_ put them on the map, but that album as a whole was pretty sorry. then they released **the bends** , which was a great album. ---
**Author:** ![TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@TheBoneyKingofNowhere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheBoneyKingofNowhere)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/6 "2005-02-15T21:05:50Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > I do not know how well the albums did (or did not do) but I was never very fond of Pink Floyd when Syd Barret was with the band. Not till Roger Waters came on board do I think the band really began to shine. That said I know that Syd had a lasting effect on the band that went well past his leaving the band early on. Whether you can say Roger Waters turned the band into what it became or whether Waters just got on for the ride at the right time I can’t say. Nonetheless I think their first albums weren’t so hot. > > I did nto like Rush’s first efforts either but again do not know if they were successful anyway. Well, Waters was with the band from the beginning. It was David Gilmour that wasn’t originally included. Barrett’s heavy influence on Piper at the Gates of Dawn is what made that album so great though, imo. When Gilmour came along, Syd was eventually ousted, and the Waters/Gilmour combination is what sparked the commercial boom of their success. So in a way, you could say the non-Syd Barret PF of albums of Meddle/Dark Side of the Moon would qualify as the 1, 2, not-so-great, unbelievably great combo we’re looking for (although I love Meddle too). ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/7 "2005-02-15T21:10:54Z")
“Joseph and the Amazing Techniclor Dreamcoat” died very quickly. “Jesus Christ Superstar” sold about 10 million copies its first year out. “la Revolution Francais” didn’t sell. “Les Miserable” did. ABBA’s “Ring Ring” went nowhere; “Waterloo” was a hit. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/8 "2005-02-15T22:00:29Z")
Nightwish’s first album, _Angels Fall First_, is pretty much for serious fans only. Their second album, _Oceanborn_, put them on the map, right at the center. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/9 "2005-02-15T22:06:17Z")
Shania Twain. I bought her first, eponymous album based on the strengths of _The Woman in Me_ and _Come on Over_. Haven’t yet popped in in a second time. ---
**Author:** ![James\_Westphal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9bd4f/32.png) [@James\_Westphal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/James_Westphal)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/10 "2005-02-15T22:21:16Z")
I don’t know about sales, but songwise these second albums were superior and far more popular… Death Cab for Cutie - We Have the Facts… followed Something About Airplanes The Wallflowers - Bringing Down the Horse followed their eponymous debut Smashing Pumpkins - Siamese Dream -\>Gish Nirvana - Nevermind -\>Bleach The Promise Ring - Very Emergency -\>30 Degrees Everywhere Simon and Garfunkel - Sounds of Silence -\>Wednesday Morning, 3 a.m. Wilco - Being There -\> A.M. ---
**Author:** ![KGS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/90ced4/32.png) [@KGS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KGS)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/11 "2005-02-15T22:31:40Z")
Bruce Dickinson solo. 1st = _Tattooed Millionaire_ = lame cheesy pop metal. 2nd = _Balls to Picasso_ = serious crunch a-happenin’. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/12 "2005-02-15T22:46:48Z")
I think Tom Waits’ first album, Closing Time (1973) was pretty standard singer-songwriter stuff, but his second album, The Heart of Saturday Night (1974) was a quantum leap forward in terms of subject matter (everything from maudlin barroom ballads to seamy nocturnal cityscapes), style (experimenting with everything from beatnik jazz to sea shanties), musicianship, and the beginnings of the familiar raspy voice all Waits fans love and expect. ---
**Author:** ![dalej42](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@dalej42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dalej42)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/13 "2005-02-16T03:09:09Z")
Genesis. **From Genesis to Revelation**. A historical oddity featuring Peter Gabriel’s debut. Gabriel as a schoolboy. **Trespass**. An outstanding album still lacking Phil Collins on drums. The Knife is still a Genesis standard. ---
**Author:** ![Oregon\_sunshine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/50afbb/32.png) [@Oregon\_sunshine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oregon_sunshine)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/14 "2005-02-16T03:14:29Z")
> [@James Westphal](#): > > Wilco - Being There -\> A.M. I beg to differ. I thought A.M. _rocked_… Being There is totally brilliant too, but a little too noisy for my taste. YMMV. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/15 "2005-02-16T03:18:34Z")
**Warren Zevon’s** first album, _Wanted - Dead or Alive_, is almost unlistenable. The next one, _Warren Zevon_ not only sounded totally different, it was one of the best albums of the 1970’s, and in my opinion the best album of his career. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/16 "2005-02-16T03:55:42Z")
No Doubt’s “second” album, _Tragic Kingdom_, was their big breakthrough. Their first self-titled album was certainly much weaker. (They also released an unofficial album between the two called _The Beacon Street Collection_, but this was more of a promotional thing than a general release.) ---
**Author:** ![Edward\_The\_Head](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ce73a5/32.png) [@Edward\_The\_Head](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Edward_The_Head)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/17 "2005-02-16T13:34:59Z")
> [@KGS](#): > > Bruce Dickinson solo. > > 1st = _Tattooed Millionaire_ = lame cheesy pop metal. > 2nd = _Balls to Picasso_ = serious crunch a-happenin’. Then he followed it up with Skunkworks, shudder. I haven’t put that album in in a long time. He did follow that up with Accident of Birth. Some people say Iron Maiden’s Killers is better then Iron Maiden, I’m not one of those people though. I would say that Motorhead’s Motorhead is not as good as Overkill. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/18 "2005-02-16T15:04:25Z")
Billy Joel’s **Cold Spring Harbor** did have a couple of good songs, but it was just fair overall, and the record company sped the entire thing up so it would have more of a beat. It was a flop. However, his second, **Piano Man** was great from start to finish and spawned several classic songs. Elton John had a similar history. His **Empty Sky** was so-so, and sold hardly at all, but he scored big with his second album **Elton John** , partly because Gus Dudgeon took over as producer. **Jefferson Airplane Takes Off** was not overly impressive, and barely made a dent in the charts. **Surrealistic Pillow** , after they added Grace Slick, is a rock classic. ---
**Author:** ![neofishboy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/neofishboy/32/444_2.png) [@neofishboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/neofishboy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/19 "2005-02-16T15:51:12Z")
So who here owns a copy of **Y Kant Tori Read**? ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238/20 "2005-02-16T22:05:00Z")
> [@neofishboy](#): > > So who here owns a copy of **Y Kant Tori Read**? Shudder. I do. I’ll throw out **Depeche Mode’s** “Speak and Spell”. The lyrics are so laughable now. “A Broken Frame” is really where the band turned the corner. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-first-albums-great-second-albums/290238.md?page=2)