# "Bad history! BAD!!!": Historically inaccurate movies and TV shows **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 17, 2009, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013 "2009-06-17T01:17:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/81 "2009-06-18T16:35:51Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > A slightly off-topic question: is there a term for movies like _Inherit the Wind_ that are based on but at the same time different from the actual events? I’d probably call _Inherit the Wind_ a historical allegory, but that doesn’t apply to all dramas with historical settings. When I was in high school I heard “historical fiction” used for the kind of story you are talking about, but those were usually not based on specific events. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/82 "2009-06-18T16:46:15Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > [geekish chortling] In _Glory_ the 54th Massachusetts is shown attacking Ft Wagner from the North because the light was better, but IRL they attacked from the South. How stupid was THAT? [/geekish chortling] > > Reading up on it, \*Glory \*may be the one that got it the most right. Sure, compromises were made, but, as films go, they changed little. The main accuracy problem in _Glory_ is Denzel Washington’s character. Almost all, if not all, of the 54th’s _initial_ enlistees were free men before the Civil War broke out- few if any were escaped slaves. Some escaped slaves- contraband- joined later, and there were in fact regiments of escaped slaves, but the 54th wasn’t one. I’m trying to remember if any of the main characters in the movie survived the attack on Battery Wagner. In reality, while the 54th most definitely got the hell blasted out of it during that fight, half or more did survive. Also, though the order had gone out that all black men in uniform and their officers were to be killed on the spot if captured, to their credit most Confederate officers saw this as murder and flatly refused to carry it out; it’s probable Davis meant it more as a terror tactic since he never disciplined any of these officers, and some members of the 54th who were captured were imprisoned at Andersonville. This is referenced in the TV film [Andersonville](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andersonville_(film)) (one of the better made for TV movies about the Civil War; the greatest inaccuracy is one the producers had no control over, which is there’s no safe way for actors to lose enough weight to look like the real survivors). ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/83 "2009-06-18T17:05:23Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > The main accuracy problem in _Glory_ is Denzel Washington’s character. Almost all, if not all, of the 54th’s _initial_ enlistees were free men before the Civil War broke out- few if any were escaped slaves. Some escaped slaves- contraband- joined later, and there were in fact regiments of escaped slaves, but the 54th wasn’t one.. Although most were, all were apparently not. Thus highlighting the story of one is not inaccurate. wiki, etc. “The Congressional bill authorized equal and full pay to those enlisted troops who were free men as of April, 1861. Of course not all the troops qualified. Colonel E. N. Hallowell, a Quaker, rationalized that because he did not believe in slavery he could therefore have all the troops swear that they were free men. Before being given their back pay the entire regiment was administered what became known as “the Quaker oath.”[citation needed] Colonel Hallowell skillfully crafted the oath to say: “You do solemnly swear that on or before the 19th day of April 1864, no man had the right to demand unrequited labor of you so help you lord.”[citation needed] It should be noted that Colonel Hallowell, wrote a “typo” in his hand-written transcript of the oath and actually said “1861” while administering the oath.” ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/84 "2009-06-18T17:39:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > A slightly off-topic question: is there a term for movies like _Inherit the Wind_ that are based on but at the same time different from the actual events? > > _Inherit the Wind_ has some elements that are extremely different from the real events. The real teacher on trial wasn’t an intellectual martyr- he wasn’t even a teacher “Hell, he ain’t even old timey”] and the entire trial was basically a publicity stunt to drum up business for Dayton Tennessee. There were actually a lot more lawyers on both sides than just Darrow (Drummond) and Bryan (Brady). > > On the other hand, even if it was a staged event passions did run high: there really were people in the community and elsewhere who showed up with “I’m Not a Monkey” signs and the “Read Your Bible” placard at the door of the courthouse was real. The judge really was a very religious man who opened with prayer and forgave, as a Christian, Darrow for a contempt of court charge when he apologized to the court. > And the most improbable events are actually almost identical to the trial: Darrow really did call Bryan to the stand as an expert on the Bible and their exchanges are sometimes verbatim and always a close paraphrase of the actual transcripts. Bryan really did say “I don’t think about things I don’t think about” and other trip ups. Bryan really was a three-time presidential candidate and career politician who really did die shortly after the trial (he didn’t die in the courtroom but he was still in the town). > > Not historical exactly, but a similar film is [To Die For](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Die_For), which is Nicole Kidman as a New Hampshire schoolteacher who seduces a “wrong side of the tracks” teenaged student to kill her husband. As with _Inherit the Wind_ and _The Scopes Trial_ much is changed from the Pamela Smart case (mainly the characterization of Smart’s parents and in-laws and of course the ending) but at the same time the most unlikely and unrealistic events are actually true (the video recordings of the students that crucified her, her asking the boys who were going to kill her husband to put the dog in the bathroom so he wouldn’t be traumatized, two kids doing a contract murder for some CDs and a tiny amount of cash, etc.). The producers actually included the “any resemblance to real people is coincidental” disclaimer at the end, but as with INHERIT THE WIND if the writers tried to claim it was absolutely unconnected to the actual trials and events they’d have been laughed at because there was way more than a casual resemblance. > > I’m familiar with the term [roman à clef](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_%C3%A0_clef)comes to mind, but I was wondering if there’s a term that’s a little bit tighter- something that basically means “a dramatization with some changes” rather than “some similarity to actual events”? **CalMeacham** has a couple of posts in this thread dealing with Plays Inspired by History that get turned into Movies That Aren’t Historically Accurate. Sorry, I don’t know of any shorter term! When you’re watching a play, with live actors & minimal scenery, it’s easier to concentrate on what the playwright is trying to communicate. Which is not usually historical accuracy. A good movie will seem more “real”–even if it isn’t “correct.” The play _Amadeus_ is about genius & jealousy (perhaps). The movie _Amadeus_ is about the wonderful music of Mozart & the beautiful city of Vienna. Yes, I know it was really shot in Prague–but the sumptous production really made you think you were seeing into the past. Of course it didn’t tell the true story of Mozart–but all the music was true. If I get a chance to see the play, I’m sure I’ll appreciate it intellectually. But I love the movie. If I want to know more about Mozart the man, I’ll read a book. But I’m more likely to seek out more of his music. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/85 "2009-06-18T19:10:17Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > I believe you’re wrong here. There was no real-life incident during WWII anything like the movie plot. > > The closest the British Navy ever got to taking over an operational U-boat by stealth, was when units damaged a sub (forcing its evacuation) and a team of British sailors boarded the abandoned vessel to recover valuable papers and an Enigma device. It _was_ an heroic effort (no one knew if there might be some diehard Nazi aboard somewhere, the boat could have started suddenly sinking and the recovered items were quite helpful to Intelligence), but not one that would have made a good movie. I believe one of the fellows who was on that raid said he enjoyed U571 stating that to be commercially successful it needed to be about Americans. That didn’t stop this movie from the replacing Das Boot as the WW2 History Movie Most Hated by Brits. ---
**Author:** ![HeyHomie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/heyhomie/32/207_2.png) [@HeyHomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HeyHomie)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/86 "2009-06-18T20:18:29Z")
> [@Intergalactic\_Gladiator](#): > > The shootout OK Corral was very, very brief. According to wikipedia [30 shots were fired in 30 seconds](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ok_Corral). Something’s always bothered me about that scene in _Tombstone_, and the Wiki article doesn’t really clear it up. The movie makes it look like the OK Corrall is little more than a patch of dirt between two buildings in town - about the size of a modern suburban front yard. I always thought that a corrall was something akin to a farm or a pasture. What’s the deal. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/87 "2009-06-18T20:31:58Z")
A corral is just a place where you keep cattle temporarily - basically, a patch of dirt with a fence around it, often in or near a market where you intend to sell them. ---
**Author:** ![TheFaerie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c57346/32.png) [@TheFaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TheFaerie)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/88 "2009-06-18T20:33:47Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > And of course _The Tudors_… HOW THE HELL DO YOU BLEND MARGARET AND MARY TUDOR INTO ONE AND THEN KILL HER OFF BEFORE SHE’S WHELPED!!! Is this like a STAR TREK reimagining alternate timeline? Without Margaret there’s no Mary Queen of Scots, no James V of Scotland, and no monarch of England since 1603. Word. I saw that part of the series and never watched a single episode again for that very reason. Pretty costumes or not, that was just dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Ephemera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8baadc/32.png) [@Ephemera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ephemera)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/89 "2009-06-18T20:34:51Z")
From the wiki article: _The gunfight did not actually occur at the O.K. Corral. It occurred in a 15-20 foot space between Fly’s Lodging House and photographic studio, and the MacDonald assay house west of it._ ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/90 "2009-06-18T22:08:55Z")
**HeyHomie** said: > [@](#): > > I always thought that a corrall was something akin to a farm or a pasture. **Miller** said: > [@](#): > > A corral is just a place where you keep cattle temporarily - basically, a patch of dirt with a fence around it, often in or near a market where you intend to sell them. Right. A corral is a holding and processing pen. It’s where you keep animals when you don’t want them wandering away, as opposed to typical situations on ranches where the animals free roam. A corral is the fenced area for breaking horses, training for barrel racing, etc. It also stands for the pen used to keep horses in town. If your horse isn’t saddled up or hitched to the wagon, it needs to be kept somewhere. There’s a stable to keep it covered, but the corral includes an open penned area that lets the horses have a little room to move around. This photo shows Tombstone. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tombstone1908OKm.JPG](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tombstone1908OKm.JPG) The white highlighted area is the location of the gunfight. The actual OK Corral is shown in the picture. Third Street is the street running toward the upper left. Allen Street is in the forground running horizontal right. The entrance to the OK Corral is on Allen. As you can see, there is something of a clearing behind that area between the buildings. That is the corral. Not particularly huge. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2009, 11:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/91 "2009-06-18T23:42:36Z")
> [@](#): > > Really? Well, a lotta good that post did. 1.) My post is a comment on an earlier post about **Fall of a Nation** , as the last line makes clear. 2.) The IMDb saying that this is listed among the “lost films” trumps your recollection that you think you saw a copy somewhere. 3.) I never saw your earlier post (from a much earlier thread.) ---
**Author:** ![Estilicon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Estilicon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Estilicon)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/92 "2009-06-19T03:06:21Z")
Elizabeth II (the movie not the queen) is the worst. It’s almost insulting, the spanish are portrayed like muslim fundamentalists. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/93 "2009-06-19T20:46:12Z")
> [@TheFaerie](#): > > Word. I saw that part of the series and never watched a single episode again for that very reason. Pretty costumes or not, that was just dumb. Though killing her off did free Gabrielle Anwar to go blow things up and kick ass on _Burn Notice_, so I suppose historical inaccuracy did serve that purpose. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [June 19, 2009, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/94 "2009-06-19T23:45:12Z")
I am mildly obsessed by Band of Brothers. There is one glaring error that ruins an episode for me. The episode Caretan centered around Albert Blithe played by Mark Warren. I am not sure why the producers of the mini series made the episode about him, he is barely mentioned in the book. At the end of the episode Blithe is shot and he is said to have died from his wounds in 1947. Albert Blithe actually survived his wounds and eventually made a career of the army. He made the rank of Master Sergeant, served in Korea, had over 600 jumps, was awarded the Silver Star, 3 Bronze Stars and 3 Purple Hearts. MSG Blithe died while on active duty in 1967 due to complications of a perforated ulcer. The members of his unit thought he died and that is what Ambrose reported in the book but they were wrong. The family came forward after the series came out to set the record straight. It wasn’t the fault of the producers but the error still bothers me. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 26, 2009, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/95 "2009-06-26T22:11:52Z")
To me, the accuracy of history in most movies is irrelevant, especially big-budget flicks starrings Big Names. So it’s not at all surprising that _Elizabeth_ or _Braveheart_ get it completely wrong, because I’m not expecting them to get it right. However, there was one film where I (stupidly) thought that the specifity of the subject was such that they would go to pains to get it right, a subject that I thought would never get a movie treatment in the first place… a movie about [Martin Luther](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0309820/goofs). I mean, why make a movie about Martin Luther if you’re not going to take pains to get the history right? It’s not as if there’s a huge audience out there wanting to see a 16th century war of words, right? Sigh. That’ll learn me. Anyway, the movie was correct on a number of fronts - many of the speeches were pretty verbatim, they didn’t f-up the locations, etc. And there were some small issues that could be easily explained away… like the use of the word “inertia”, which wasn’t coined until a 100 years after the events in question. No need to expect the scriptwriters to be 100% linguistically accurate. But what bothered me about the movie was two things: 1. The character of Luther himself. He was portrayed as a soft-spoken, gentle person who accidentally started the Reformation and was carried along by it’s irresistable force. While it is true that he didn’t set out to splinter the Church, there is no way in Holy Hell™ anybody could consider Martin Luther to be either soft-spoken or gentle… the man was a freakin’ loon who discovered a love of invective language, a man who had no problem calling the Pope the Antichrist, who compared Rome to Sodom and Gomorrah, a man who raged on a daily basis. Joseph Fiennes portrayal was one of the most _inaccurate_ portrayals of a historical figure that I’ve ever seen, an inaccuracy that was highlighted in the second thing that bothered me about this film: 2. The Peasants Rebellion of 1524-1525. In the film, Luther was all “Oh, no! Don’t kill the peasants - they’re upset at the Church too and they are only doing this because of all the oppression they’ve suffered!” :rolleyes: In real life, Luther wanted the peasants put down even more ruthlessly than they were and he wrote a screed entitled _Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants_ which contained such quotes as: > [@](#): > > The peasants have taken upon themselves the burden of three terrible sins against God and man; by this they have merited death in body and soul…thus they become the worst blasphemers of God and slanderers of his holy name. > [@](#): > > Therefore let everyone who can, smite, slay, and stab, secretly or openly, remembering that nothing can be more poisonous, hurtful, or devilish than a rebel. > [@](#): > > I think there is not a devil left in hell; they have all gone into the peasants. Gentle indeed! ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/96 "2009-06-27T03:38:56Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > 1. The Peasants Rebellion of 1524-1525. In the film, Luther was all “Oh, no! Don’t kill the peasants - they’re upset at the Church too and they are only doing this because of all the oppression they’ve suffered!” :rolleyes: In real life, Luther wanted the peasants put down even more ruthlessly than they were and he wrote a screed entitled _Against the Murderous, Thieving Hordes of Peasants_… Then followed it up with the pamphlets _And Get Me Not Even Started About the Jews_, its followup _No, Seriously, You Don’t Even Wanna Know What I Think About Jews_ and _You Know Who I REALLY Hate? Give You One Hint: Jews_. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/97 "2009-06-27T03:58:58Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > I mean, why make a movie about Martin Luther if you’re not going to take pains to get the history right? It’s not as if there’s a huge audience out there wanting to see a 16th century war of words, right? The film was made by the Lutheran church, so they’re probably not going to want to portray him as a loony, violent, anti-Semite. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/98 "2009-06-27T15:23:10Z")
It was produced by the Lutheran Church? I did not know that. No wonder Luther was portrayed as he was(n’t). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/99 "2009-06-27T20:35:31Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Elizabeth II (the movie not the queen) is the worst. > It’s almost insulting, the spanish are portrayed like muslim fundamentalists. Do you mean Elizabeth starring Cate Blanchett, about Elizabeth I? Some movies get away with being historically inaccurate by being ‘postmodern.’ Shakespeare in Love is a good example of that. It really wasn’t trying to be historically accurate at all; unfortunately, some viewers seem to think it was. I’ve met a few people who thought Shakespeare really did start out having Romeo paired with Ethel. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2009, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013/100 "2009-06-27T21:13:52Z")
> [@Estilicon](#): > > Elizabeth II (the movie not the queen) is the worst. > It’s almost insulting, the spanish are portrayed like muslim fundamentalists. The movie isn’t very good, but the portrayal of the Spanish crown and military as religious zealots bent on conquest is not at all inaccurate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-history-bad-historically-inaccurate-movies-and-tv-shows/500013.md?page=6)