# Bad Lease Deal = Elder Abuse? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 7, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205 "2015-08-07T02:42:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/1 "2015-08-07T02:42:00Z")
So my 75-year-old widowed mother leased a Toyota RAV4 today for $459 a month for 36 months, 36,000 miles allowed for the lease term. The car is 4 wheel drive. Here’s the deal: online Toyota offers the same lease for $199 a month ($2,599 due at signing). Or @$272 a month for the same car, except the cheaper RAV4 is 2 wheel drive. Is the 4 wheel drive really worth an extra $6732 over the life of the lease, or did my mum get screwed? Is ripping off an old lady “elder abuse” or just caveat emptor? The total lease is $16,524, but the exact same lease of a two wheel drive is $9,792. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/2 "2015-08-07T02:46:35Z")
Sounds like you should take more care over your mother’s affairs since she is unaware of what market deals should be. Do you have a power of attorney over her financial decisions? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/3 "2015-08-07T03:00:25Z")
> [@Omar\_Little](#): > > Sounds like you should take more care over your mother’s affairs since she is unaware of what market deals should be. > > Do you have a power of attorney over her financial decisions? No, she’s usually quite competent; she’s a former math professor, although it was community college. We’re going back in tomorrow, and I’m going with her. I’m still trying to figure out how much she got taken. Are 4 wheel drive cars that much more? [Toyota.com](http://Toyota.com) doesn’t show leases for the 4 wheel drive RAV4. Eta: does FWD mean four wheel drive or front wheel drive? ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/4 "2015-08-07T03:05:41Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > Eta: does FWD mean four wheel drive or front wheel drive? FWD would be front wheel drive, four wheel drive would be 4WD (and All Wheel Drive would be AWD). ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/5 "2015-08-07T03:11:30Z")
What trim package did she get. It’s possible they talked her up from the base model to the Limited edition and from a longer lease to a shorter one. Those two things might account for a higher lease payment. She may have also opted out of a down payment. Again, that would raise the payment. OR, are you sure she didn’t buy it instead of lease it? You might want to look over the paperwork before you go in there yelling at people. Most deals that dealerships offer come straight from the manufacturer. If you’re buying a new car from a new car dealer, haggling isn’t as much of a thing as it used to be. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/6 "2015-08-07T03:18:51Z")
I think it’s AWD, and it’s worth the extra money. But paying more than the on-line deal isn’t worth it. Maybe she can still cancel the deal. ---
**Author:** ![Jorge\_Burrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Jorge\_Burrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jorge_Burrito)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/7 "2015-08-07T03:26:11Z")
Is the money due at signing the same? That can make a big difference in lease terms. Regardless her current deal is over $16k for 3 years on a car that cost only 22-25K. Ouch. Not elder abuse, but definitely sleazy which is of course is shocking coming from a car dealership. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/8 "2015-08-07T03:37:59Z")
Well, she wants the 4 wheel drive (All Wheel Drive), but she did a pull ahead on her Camry lease, which was also a screwjob at $459 a month. They offered her the “same lease” which was a shitty deal, but the Camry needs repairs, at their dealership, so we know it’s still there. The thing is, they then changed the lease terms from 45,000 miles to 36,000, so they screwed her even more than they even originally told her. We may just tell them to keep the fucking RAV4 and give her back the Camry, but I don’t know what happens if they say “too bad, she signed the deal, she owes us $17,000.” ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/9 "2015-08-07T03:44:29Z")
> [@Jorge\_Burrito](#): > > Is the money due at signing the same? That can make a big difference in lease terms. Regardless her current deal is over $16k for 3 years on a car that cost only 22-25K. Ouch. Not elder abuse, but definitely sleazy which is of course is shocking coming from a car dealership. No, she put nothing down, she wasn’t given the option. But she also didn’t offer to. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/10 "2015-08-07T03:48:34Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > No, she put nothing down, she wasn’t given the option. But she also didn’t offer to. That $199 deal includes $1899 down. That’s another $60ish dollars over 36 months. Plus they added in whatever was still due on her Camery (and possibly the cost of the repairs). Also, the $199 deal is for the LE, it may not have been for the LE AWD. How much did she still owe on the Camery. ETA, just to ask again, are you sure she didn’t purchase it, the numbers work out about right for their 0%/60months offer. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/11 "2015-08-07T03:53:14Z")
Has she taken delivery of the RAV? If she has not driven the car off the lot you are in much better bargaining position. If she has driven off the lot, state laws vary. In some states there is no cooling off period where you can change your mind. Also realize the advertised lease price is for the base RAV which is $23,680MSRP, if your mother picked any accessories the price and the lease monthly go up. Pick a premium model with the goodies and you are looking at an MSRP of $32,750. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/12 "2015-08-07T03:56:52Z")
Does she actually want your help? Even though she may only have taught at community college, she still may like to consider herself a grown-up. She made a deal you don’t think was very good, but that hardly makes her the doddering victim of a predatory scam. People make bad deals at all ages. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/13 "2015-08-07T04:00:20Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Also realize the advertised lease price is for the base RAV which is $23,680MSRP, if your mother picked any accessories the price and the lease monthly go up. Pick a premium model with the goodies and you are looking at an MSRP of $32,750. On top of that, once she isn’t buying the base model (Rav4 LE 2WD), the lease special may be off the table, which is what the $199 special is for. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/14 "2015-08-07T04:06:30Z")
Check your state laws, see if you have a 3-day cancellation law in place. In Illinois, you can completely back out of a car deal within three days, like it never happened. Your state may not, but it’s worth it to check. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/15 "2015-08-07T04:07:38Z")
Another thing, how’s her credit. That deal is only for people with Tier 1 Credit. If her credit is less than stellar, they might not give her that deal. But, again, I think you need to A)see what trim package she got B)make sure she didn’t purchase it and B)pick through the paperwork. We’re/you’re doing a lot of speculation at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/16 "2015-08-07T04:20:40Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Has she taken delivery of the RAV? If she has not driven the car off the lot you are in much better bargaining position. > If she has driven off the lot, state laws vary. In some states there is no cooling off period where you can change your mind. > Also realize the advertised lease price is for the base RAV which is $23,680MSRP, if your mother picked any accessories the price and the lease monthly go up. Pick a premium model with the goodies and you are looking at an MSRP of $32,750. I’ve got to check what model she got, but even if it’s $33,000, I’ve never heard of a lease that’s 50% of the purchase price. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/17 "2015-08-07T04:23:39Z")
> [@AnaMen](#): > > Does she actually want your help? Even though she may only have taught at community college, she still may like to consider herself a grown-up. She made a deal you don’t think was very good, but that hardly makes her the doddering victim of a predatory scam. People make bad deals at all ages. Yes, she wants help now. Yes, I think she got screwed. That’s why I posted this. If you think she made a great bargain, I’m asking for your opinion. Do you think this sounds like a good, or even reasonable, deal? ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/18 "2015-08-07T04:28:03Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > Another thing, how’s her credit. That deal is only for people with Tier 1 Credit. If her credit is less than stellar, they might not give her that deal. > > But, again, I think you need to A)see what trim package she got B)make sure she didn’t purchase it and B)pick through the paperwork. We’re/you’re doing a lot of speculation at the moment. Yes, it’s a lease. Yes, she has perfect credit. I was hoping someone would come on here and say, “I just signed the same, or similar, deal. It’s fair.” No one has said that. Yes, I’m speculating. But I don’t think I’m out of line. Something stinks. ---
**Author:** ![Grotonian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c2a13f/32.png) [@Grotonian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grotonian)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/19 "2015-08-07T04:33:29Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > That $199 deal includes $1899 down. That’s another $60ish dollars over 36 months. Plus they added in whatever was still due on her Camery (and possibly the cost of the repairs). Also, the $199 deal is for the LE, it may not have been for the LE AWD. > > How much did she still owe on the Camery. > ETA, just to ask again, are you sure she didn’t purchase it, the numbers work out about right for their 0%/60months offer. Not according to them, as far as paying on the Camry. They did her the “favor” of just canceling it. (At $459 a month for two years, she paid for what a reasonable lease would have been for 3 years, plus the car’s resale is higher now than it will be in a year and with 15,000 more miles on it.) Repairs are completely covered by insurance. She did THEM a favor by bringing it to them, not the other way around. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2015, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205/20 "2015-08-07T04:36:03Z")
> [@Grotonian](#): > > We may just tell them to keep the fucking RAV4 and give her back the Camry, but I don’t know what happens if they say “too bad, she signed the deal, she owes us $17,000.” Tell them “we’ll see you in court. But before that, we’ll see you in news media all over the city/state, we’ll see you in the State Attorney General’s office, we’ll see you as the local seniors group pickets in front of your dealership with their canes & walkers, we’ll see you on facebook, etc.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-lease-deal-elder-abuse/727205.md?page=2)