# Bad precedent **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [April 9, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594 "2010-04-09T23:45:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![twickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ec9cab/32.png) [@twickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/twickster)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/61 "2010-04-11T18:29:54Z")
Pursuant to the complaints here, and to a rather extensive discussion on the mod loop, I have [rescinded **devilsknew** ’s warning](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=12328915&postcount=220) and apologized for overreacting to his use of the word “cunt.” For those wondering why it took me so fucking long – I’ve been offline most of the weekend, and am getting ready to turn off the computer again and head out, so will not be responding to any additional comments in this thread till tonight or perhaps tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/62 "2010-04-11T19:13:02Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > There might even be a tissue-paper thin “clarification” of the “Obey mod orders” rule put into place.) It will not be “tissue thin” and it is already in place. If you do not like a Mod’s instructions, you are free to take it up in e-mail. PM, or the ATMB. If you defy those instructions, you will be smacked–anything from a wrist slap through a Warning to a Suspension, depending on the situation. That is how it should be. There is no compelling reason for a poster to deliberately violate a Mod’s instructions. Most of the accusations about inventing rules have occurred during efforts to keep threads from jumping the rails or from feuds turning into flame wars. There is always time to work with the staff to get a decision reversed if it should be. There are times that we Mods have acted hastily or in error, but we have also reversed ourselves on a number of challenged calls. No one will die if you don’t get the chance to post in contradiction to a Mod’s instruction and your insistence that you have some Og given right or need to do so simply indicates that you are more interested in showing that you are a good barracks lawyer, (_I did not break THAT rule!_), or that you are not interested in playing well with others. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/63 "2010-04-11T19:30:25Z")
Regarding how “tissue thin” the rules are: [SDMB registration agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423183) > [@](#): > > You agree to abide by the wishes of the board moderators in interpreting and enforcing these rules. Refusal to cooperate with board moderators or to abide by these rules is grounds for revocation of your posting privileges. > [@](#): > > If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges. > [@](#): > > Please remember that you are our guest here, and that we reserve the right to exclude you at our whim, for any or no reason whatsoever. Subscribers who are banned forfeit all subscription fees they have paid. If you have been banned from the SDMB and resubscribe, you will be banned again without notice and forfeit your subscription fee. **By registering and using the board you acknowledge this right and agree to abide by our rules and to submit to their interpretation and enforcement by our moderators and editors.** This is not a claim that the Mods are infallible. This is not a claim that no one has the right to challenge a decision. The point is that until that decision has been successfully challenged, (with all the attendant angst and hoopla that frequently accompanies it), the board registration agreement indicates that your continued posting is contingent upon not deliberately flouting the instructions of the staff. A poster “point-blank saying” that he or she intends to violate a Mod’s instructions as long as he or she does not see an explicit rule that supports those instructions is simpy declaring his or her intent to ignore the registration agreement. That is not “tissue thin.” ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/64 "2010-04-11T19:40:25Z")
Ah yes, you’re a class act Tom. In a thread where the mod was _clearly_ in the wrong (I will make up a rule and then I will give you a warning for not pretending with me that it makes sense!) and came in to give her apology and to rescind the warning you have to follow that up with some more “RESPECT OUR AUTHORITAH!” nonsense not once but twice in a row. Added points for making sure in the 2nd comment to give us the old “You’re our guest here and you can get out if you don’t like it.” What a special, special fella you are. ETA: Extra lulz from me for “take it to PM” if you’re not happy about a decision. DO NOT DO THAT. For the love of all that’s holy, do not do that folks. If you don’t give your answers EXACTLY the way the mod wants it you can get more warnings if they’re feeling extra bitchy. ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/65 "2010-04-11T19:40:44Z")
> [@SoulFrost](#): > > Why were the posts reported at all? Do the people who reported them simply not fully understand what is and what isn’t allowed here, or do they feel that their own personal dislikes should trump the rules and culture of the board? We’ve been told that, when in doubt, go ahead and report it and if it’s not really a problem, no big deal. This happened in a thread I started a while ago. It was a hypothetical legal question, but some people were concerned it was asking for legal advice. A mod posted a note that it had been reported, but was OK under the rules and [del]people on both sides went ballistic[/del] the thread continued on without incident. So I wouldn’t criticize anyone for reporting the post. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/66 "2010-04-11T19:46:38Z")
I have to agree with **tomndebb** –while there are processes that must be followed by the Mods when enforcing or establishing rules, there are also processes that the Membership must follow when protesting that enforcement. That said, escalation is not always a bad thing. By occassionally poking each other with sharp sticks, we can discover the motivations behind our posting and moderating styles. It is those motivations that matter to me, moreso than the individual acts. ---
**Author:** ![SoulFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f07891/32.png) [@SoulFrost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SoulFrost)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/67 "2010-04-11T19:51:46Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > We’ve been told that, when in doubt, go ahead and report it and if it’s not really a problem, no big deal. This happened in a thread I started a while ago. It was a hypothetical legal question, but some people were concerned it was asking for legal advice. A mod posted a note that it had been reported, but was OK under the rules and [del]people on both sides went ballistic[/del] the thread continued on without incident. > > So I wouldn’t criticize anyone for reporting the post. Oh, I wasn’t criticizing. There is absolutely a good use for reporting posts, such as in your example. The reports regarding this case, however, may very well fall under “not fully understanding what is and what isn’t allowed here”. If so, then clarification may be in order, since it is allowed in some contexts, but not in others. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/68 "2010-04-11T20:05:37Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > Ah yes, you’re a class act Tom. In a thread where the mod was _clearly_ in the wrong (I will make up a rule and then I will give you a warning for not pretending with me that it makes sense!) and came in to give her apology and to rescind the warning you have to follow that up with some more “RESPECT OUR AUTHORITAH!” nonsense not once but twice in a row. Added points for making sure in the 2nd comment to give us the old “You’re our guest here and you can get out if you don’t like it.” > > What a special, special fella you are. **Moderator Warning** Personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB. This is an official warning. Do not do this again. Colibri Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/69 "2010-04-11T20:08:38Z")
Better than a sitcom! ---
**Author:** ![ZenBeam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/3ab097/32.png) [@ZenBeam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZenBeam)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/70 "2010-04-11T20:11:35Z")
Lame lame lame, **Colibri**. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/71 "2010-04-11T20:11:51Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > . . . you have to follow that up with some more “RESPECT OUR AUTHORITAH!” nonsense not once but twice in a row. Added points for making sure in the 2nd comment to give us the old “You’re our guest here and you can get out if you don’t like it.” You will note that, your mischaracterization of my posts notwithstanding, I was responding to a specific statement by a poster that he would not follow a Mod’s instructions unless there was an explicit rule in place. I have no problem with devilsknew’s original post, nor with a challenge to twickster’s response. I do have an issue with a poster declaring that it is fine to simply ignore the Mods whenever one chooses to decide that a Mod’s instruction is not a black-and-white enforcement of an explicit rule. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/72 "2010-04-11T20:13:53Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > Lame lame lame, **Colibri**. It’s okay, I’m not butthuu… wait. I’m not upset! ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/73 "2010-04-11T20:18:55Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > I do have an issue with a poster declaring that it is fine to simply ignore the Mods whenever one chooses to decide that a Mod’s instruction is not a black-and-white enforcement of an explicit rule. Are you sure you’re not doing a little twisting of words here? Let’s look at what he said: > [@Fenris](#): > > As an aside, I can point-blank say that I’m not going to follow mod instructions for made-up rules. now let’s look at how YOU characterized what he said. > [@tomndebb](#): > > I do have an issue with a poster declaring that it is fine to simply ignore the Mods whenever one chooses to decide that **a Mod’s instruction is not a black-and-white enforcement of an explicit rule**. Bolding is my emphasis. Made up rules = instruction that is not a black-and-white enforcement of an explicit rule? Really? Those two things are the same to you? I’m curious ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/74 "2010-04-11T20:27:43Z")
So once again a mod gets to take shots at people, but damned if anyone says anything in return. Classy. PS Thanks for the fucking apology, twickster. We’re also sorry that it took so fucking long. Enjoy the rest of your fucking weekend. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/75 "2010-04-11T20:30:16Z")
> [@Jeff](#): > > PS Thanks for the fucking apology, twickster. We’re also sorry that it took so fucking long. Enjoy the rest of your fucking weekend. **Moderator Warning** Again, personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB. There is no call for this. This is an official warning. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/76 "2010-04-11T20:34:58Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Warning** > > Again, personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB. There is no call for this. This is an official warning. How on earth is that a personal attack? ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/77 "2010-04-11T20:37:56Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The point is that until that decision has been successfully challenged, (with all the attendant angst and hoopla that frequently accompanies it), the board registration agreement indicates that your continued posting is contingent upon not deliberately flouting the instructions of the staff. As a general principle, this is not unreasonable, either on this board, or in real-life situations. If i refuse to allow a police officer (who has no probable cause) to search my car, and he orders me out and proceeds to search anyway, i’m not going to resist or disobey him because it will get me arrested and/or an asskicking. I will comply, and hope that his violation of my rights can be addressed later. But this path rests on a belief (and a hope) that the system itself is just, and will curb the rogue cop. The problem, as i see it, is that the staff here have become so unreceptive and unresponsive to simple complaints that, in the case of **twickster** and **devilsknew** , the poster’s decision to ignore (indeed, specifically disobey) the mod’s instructions was probably the best (and perhaps the only) way to get this issue the attention it deserved. If **devilsknew** had obeyed **twickster** ’s instruction, and then started an ATMB thread complaining about the instruction, i suspect that it would have devolved into little more than a debate over subjective judgments. By defying the instruction, **devilsknew** essentially gave **twickster** all the rope she needed to hang herself with a completely ridiculous warning _on top of_ a completely unjustified request. I’m glad that **twickster** has rescinded the warning and apologized for her over-reaction, but my sense is that this outcome was actually facilitated by **devilsknew** ’s disobedience in this case. ---
**Author:** ![Jeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jeff)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/78 "2010-04-11T20:42:14Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > **Moderator Warning** > > Again, personal attacks are not permitted in ATMB. There is no call for this. This is an official warning. You’re right. I’m very fucking sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/79 "2010-04-11T20:44:41Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > How on earth is that a personal attack? How is it not? If someone addressed you like that, wouldn’t you feel like you were being attacked? If anyone addressed another poster in GQ, IMHO, or other forums outside the Pit in the manner of **Sleeps With Butterflies** or **Jeff** did, they would be liable for a warning. ATMB is no different. There is no reason we should allow personal attacks on posters merely because they are moderators. ---
**Author:** ![ajb867](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@ajb867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ajb867)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594/80 "2010-04-11T20:46:44Z")
Colibri what are you doing? Talk about adding fuel to the fire. I too was miffed by twickster’s odd placement of the f-bomb in her post in this thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-precedent/535594.md?page=5)