# Bad tippers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747 "2009-03-08T18:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/201 "2009-03-11T13:11:03Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Am I to understand that waiters make more than book store employees, based on tips? Here in Montana, where waiters must be paid minimum wage, yes, that’s true. I’m not whining about that, but I really didn’t know how to respond when my kids brought it up. I still don’t. This isn’t a chain store where they just stand behind a cash register and take money–my employees get out there on the floor and help people. They make recommendations, help find books on the shelves, handle special orders, do free gift-wrapping, help select gifts, and so forth. So when my son spends a half hour helping a customer and the kid at the coffee shop spends fifteen seconds slopping some coffee in a cup, he naturally wanted to know why the coffee shop kid got tips and he didn’t. It’s a great question. I have no answer, but I did not let him put a tip jar out in the bookstore because it’s not customary and I think it would look bad. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/202 "2009-03-11T14:06:04Z")
> [@InvisibleWombat](#): > > So when my son spends a half hour helping a customer and the kid at the coffee shop spends fifteen seconds slopping some coffee in a cup, he naturally wanted to know why the coffee shop kid got tips and he didn’t. It’s a great question. I have no answer, but I did not let him put a tip jar out in the bookstore because it’s not customary and I think it would look bad. Well, here’s an [interesting article](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/magazine/12tipping-t.html) (albeit old, but the material is still relevant) discussing tipping that may give you some ideas. I would simply tell him that coffee shop jar tipping is optional and not everyone participates (nobody is required to). Further, in coffee shop jar scenario, one isn’t tipping the server that hands them their coffee, they are tipping all the servers, including the one sitting outside on a smoke break. The point is, there is no good explanation for it (other than its socially acceptable) and it should be abolished. The interesting bit of information I took from that article is that in spite of the fact that tipping was a European custom brought to the States, Europe has moved steadily away from the practice while we tenaciously grip it. It was reported that in the 1940s Britain established minimum wage laws that decreased servers’ reliance on tips, while the US took the exact opposite tack and established minimum wage laws reinforcing and further exacerbating workers’ dependency on tips. All the while, tipping in every form is considered ‘optional.’ ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/203 "2009-03-11T15:39:24Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > But that’s precisely the problem with tips. The waiter did the job he was supposed to do. He didn’t do it well, which is probably why he was no longer employed there, but he did the job. Why does he deserve to get paid less based on his performance? Isn’t that what evaluations and merit-based raises are for? I don’t know if we’ve moved past the group dinner or not but I would disagree with you here. I don’t think a server’s job is just to bring the food from the kitchen to the table but to bring it in a timely manner so that the food isn’t cold. If the food, and we’re talking about 20 dinners here, is let sit at the pass long enough to get cold then the server isn’t doing their job. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/204 "2009-03-11T15:52:14Z")
> [@justrob](#): > > I don’t know if we’ve moved past the group dinner or not but I would disagree with you here. I don’t think a server’s job is just to bring the food from the kitchen to the table but to bring it in a timely manner so that the food isn’t cold. If the food, and we’re talking about 20 dinners here, is let sit at the pass long enough to get cold then the server isn’t doing their job. I stand by my comment. As long as the server is on the clock and performing duties that are related to his job, he is doing his job. He may very well not be managing his time well, which \*is \* definitely part of his job, but because he is failing does not mean his pay can/should be docked. Rather, he should be evaluated like just about every other hourly employee is on a regular basis where he is given an opportunity to review his strengths and weaknesses and/or let go if he is performing insufficiently. Since we don’t know the specifics of why that waiter didn’t perform his job well, it’s impossible to judge whether there were other factors that resulted in his poor service. I’m not trying to make excuses for a server I don’t even know and wasn’t there to experience the service, but he was clearly in over his head. Was he filling in for more experienced waitstaff? Was he juggling other duties the patrons were unaware of? Was he expediting for both servers, freeing the other server to serve? Who knows? Regardless, unless he was out back smoking, he was doing his job. Not well, this we know. Still, poor service doesn’t preclude other service providers from getting paid and neither should it preclude food service employees from collecting renumeration for work performed. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/205 "2009-03-11T16:27:39Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > Couple things to remember. Cash FLOW is just as important as income. So while one may OCCASIONALLY make $200 (and will no doubt tell everybody when the do), a $200 night this coming Friday doesn’t help me with my phone bill due Wednesday. $200, I’m guessing, are also only possible at the highest establishments. Your waitress and Denny’s ain’t making $200 a night no matter HOW hard and long she works. I don’t give a crap about when your phone bill is due. Here’s an idea- if you have a big night, save some of it. My paycheck this coming Friday doesn’t help cover my due-Monday car payment; that’s why I don’t spend all of the last one. The OP is ridiculous. I usually tip 20% and up because I worked in a few service jobs- but if you seriously think people who tip 15% are cheap, consider your job a reality check. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/206 "2009-03-11T16:38:36Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > The turn over rate in the restaurant industry is humongous. Good luck finding your primo employees who love people and hate earning money. I know it’s a dream, but hey, we can all dream. Um, maybe that’s because the compensation system is attracting the wrong type of people for the job. ---
**Author:** ![BlinkingDuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eada6e/32.png) [@BlinkingDuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlinkingDuck)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/207 "2009-03-11T16:56:48Z")
> [@Acid\_Lamp](#): > > You are missing my point. It doesn’t matter whether or not I can afford to give away the money or not, it’s WHAT that amount can buy at a normal market rate. In the example I gave, the “standard” tip at the expensive place was half the total bill at a more reasonable establishment. The servers however, _did the exact same job_. THe problem is that there isn’t an objective standard hourly wage for servers to measure such against. The point being that at the less expensive reataurant, the server has to do two and a bit more tables an hour to equal the “expected” tip that one table gives at the higher priced establishment. My question is what exactly did the server at the expensive place do differently to warrant an hourly rate of over 80.00 an hour?(assuming the same number of tables) I do not understand this objection… Most fields have different levels of skill and pay. I would assume that the servers at the expensive restaurants are more ‘advanced’ than the waitress at Denny’s and so deserve much more. In my field I am paid much more than when I started because I am more experienced and better at it. IN addition, more expensive restaurants usually have more than 1 server…like a wine steward, a separate water boy etc…and I assume they get part of the tips and so the actual % tip should be higher. ---
**Author:** ![Backcountry\_Medic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Backcountry\_Medic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backcountry_Medic)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/208 "2009-03-11T18:42:26Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Um, maybe that’s because the compensation system is attracting the wrong type of people for the job. Exactly. I hate to play blame the victim in any case, but my thoughts are that if the only thing that makes you friendly and nice to your customers is the hope that you can make the carrot on the stick a little bigger, you probably should look for a job where you aren’t doing so much customer service. I’m sure bank tellers are told to be friendly to customers, because the bank management knows that unfriendly tellers will cause them to lose business. Sure, they don’t get a bonus for smiling at me and asking how my day is going and I probably wouldn’t complain unless their service included racial slurs and spitting on my money, but they still act courteous and friendly, because their boss has made it clear that it is expected of them. Why can’t this theory of customer service translate into dining? Why can one basic hourly employee deposit a paycheck, dole out some cash and cut me a cashier’s check, while it takes a mercenary master server to fetch me some iced tea and a cheeseburger? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/209 "2009-03-11T19:05:46Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > American tourists here have a reputation for being lousy tippers. I think they hear that it is not customary to tip here so don’t bother. It’s not obligatory as I say but it is somewhat expected when you are provided with excellent service in certain situations. That’s interesting. I’d wager it’s precisely because they’ve heard it’s rude to tip or something. There’s a guy named [Michael Lynn](http://www.news.cornell.edu/chronicle/00/8.17.00/Lynn-tipping.html) who studies tipping and he considers Americans to be a bit neurotic about it. I guess we feel a bit uncomfortable being served, so we tip more. When I’m in Europe I always round up. If the meal is 9.50, I make it 10. If for some reason it’s 9.99, I just add one, making it 10.99 or so. I’ve noticed in Germany the service tends to be friendlier around American military bases, because all the local servers know Americans tip extra for friendly. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/210 "2009-03-12T06:41:25Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > You’re probably right that some interactions will become more perfunctory, but I think that’s to be expected as it is in every other service job. The difference is when you find workers, in whatever service job, that truly enjoy interacting with people and that’s why they are in service to begin with. The absence of the arbitrary reward system that is tipping is not going turn those folks into automatons, I can assure you. But maybe it will weed out folks that aren’t suited for that type of work. I don’t know. It’s kinda like illegal immigration. Are these people stealing jobs, or performing jobs someone else won’t? When I first started waitering this guy said “hey pretty boy, bring me a cup of coffee.” At that moment I had to decide, “do I punch this guy, or serve him?” I served him. Got my money. ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/211 "2009-03-12T07:03:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I don’t give a crap about when your phone bill is due. Here’s an idea- if you have a big night, save some of it. My paycheck this coming Friday doesn’t help cover my due-Monday car payment; that’s why I don’t spend all of the last one. This is exactly my point. In traditional jobs you KNOW when your paycheck is coming and roughly how much it’s going to be. Tipped employees don’t. So while one might say “I heard a story that he he made $200, he doesn’t deserve any more money” that doesn’t take into account the fact that it’s possible one could easily tend towards the $30 night side for extended periods of time. And I never said 15% was cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/212 "2009-03-12T13:45:12Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > This is exactly my point. In traditional jobs you KNOW when your paycheck is coming and roughly how much it’s going to be. Tipped employees don’t. So while one might say “I heard a story that he he made $200, he doesn’t deserve any more money” that doesn’t take into account the fact that it’s possible one could easily tend towards the $30 night side for extended periods of time. > > And I never said 15% was cheap. Well, stop telling people when you have a $200 night then. 😃 I wasn’t referring to you but to the OP with the 15% thing. I’ve got no beef with you; things are probably bad where you are. However, having lived in Florida for 13 years, worked service jobs in four different cities, I have no sympathy for the OP. I knew dozens of servers while I was in college, and every single one of them made more money than I did, working less hours. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/213 "2009-03-12T14:18:26Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > It’s funny. I don’t know about Irish specifically, but the reputation around here is that foreigners are generally lousy tippers as well. I do wonder why it is so difficult for people having enough brains to travel outside their own country to learn the culture and acceptable behavior relative to things they’ll actually be doing in the host country. Seriously. If you’re going to eat in a restaurant on your trip, at least figure out the tipping custom in advance. Two words: Exchange Rates. Everything in the US basically costs 35-40% more than it does in Australia because of this. And then being asked to add 20% on top of _that_ for tips? Sorry, no. Bear in mind when you’re on holiday overseas you can’t cook your own food for the most part- you pretty much have to eat out in restaurants. And adding 15-20% of that suddenly makes your meals really, really expensive. Sure, you can say “Then don’t come to America!” but really, that’s not particularly helpful or realistic. I’ve worked in bars and restaurants. There isn’t _that_ much work involved in pouring a beer or carrying a couple of plates. Yes, it’s worth more than $5 an hour, but it’s not worth a fixed percentage of the total bill. Personally, I’d rather the system we have here, where there’s no tipping, but the meal costs a bit more and the staff get paid properly. In my experience the service in the US is no different to the service I’ve received here in Australia or in NZ or the UK, where tipping is not expected from locals. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/214 "2009-03-12T14:20:53Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > Am I to understand that waiters make more than book store employees, based on tips? I don’t necessarily see anything wrong with that, except for the fact that, as I noted earlier, the expectation of tipping defies its original purpose. The tip you received is, however, exactly what a tip should be: a consideration above and beyond normal compensation that represents appreciation for exceptional service. Ok a typical scenario: Person A works in a book/shoe/clothing store, Person B is a waiter in a pub/restaurant. Person A receives $9/hr + no or very, very occasional tips Person B receives $9/hr + regular tips It of course depends on the specific individual and business to a certain extent but Person B can expect more $ per hour than Person A even if Person A works just as hard. Granted the nature of restaurant work is taxing as others have said but so can other types of service job be but there is no expectation that these other workers will be rewarded for excellent service except by a wage increase. Many people in non-food services work their arses off but can expect nothing more than the flat rate because culturally it’s not seen as a service in the same way as providing food/drink is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/215 "2009-03-12T14:25:33Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Two words: Exchange Rates. > > Everything in the US basically costs 35-40% more than it does in Australia because of this. And then being asked to add 20% on top of _that_ for tips? Sorry, no. So you do tip when the USD is up against the AUD, then? ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/216 "2009-03-12T14:33:44Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > So you do tip when the USD is up against the AUD, then? I’m more likely to be generous with my rounding, but as a general rule I don’t tip beyond rounding the bill, unless the server has _really_ gone out of their way _because I’ve asked them to._ Otherwise, pestering me to see if “Everything is OK” is annoying me. If there’s a problem, I’ll let you know. Otherwise, please leave me alone to dine in peace. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/217 "2009-03-12T14:59:52Z")
I usually (90% of the time) tip $5 no matter the bill amount. Then, when $5 doesn’t cover 15-20% of the bill I add more to the tip. IOW, if the bill for me (or the two of us) is $13.80 or $20.50 (or some similar amount) I’ll still throw a fiver on the table. Leaving a $1.80 for a $12 dollar meal (even though that’s 15%) seems like an insult to the wait person. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/218 "2009-03-12T15:03:12Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I’m more likely to be generous with my rounding, but as a general rule I don’t tip beyond rounding the bill, unless the server has _really_ gone out of their way _because I’ve asked them to._ Otherwise, pestering me to see if “Everything is OK” is annoying me. If there’s a problem, I’ll let you know. Otherwise, please leave me alone to dine in peace. Well, then it’s people like you who give tourists a bad name. I’ll grant that a tip is to be hoped for rather than expected outside the US, but here it’s an essential part of a waiter/bartender’s earnings. When in Rome… > [@](#): > > Leaving a $1.80 for a $12 dollar meal (even though that’s 15%) seems like an insult to the wait person. I do this too. By percentage of the bill, I wind up tipping the people at Waffle House three times as much as the guy at TGI Friday’s. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/da6949/32.png) [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/put_down_the_sabre)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/219 "2009-03-12T15:55:41Z")
As a foreigner (Welsh) in the US, I really don’t care about the tipping system. Everybody here knows the score, it’s 20% of the bill, whatever. But I have to say that I think service in the US is - in general - terrible, and I think it’s because of the tips. The faux-friendliness, the almost-flirtation, the constant trips back to check ‘how everything is’? You are not my friend. Just leave us alone to eat! I think good waiting staff shouldn’t intrude on the meal experience unnecessarily, and here they do that an awful lot. It seems to be an unfortunate fact of life that many people will tip a waitress who flirts a bit more than one who doesn’t. pdts ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2009, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/220 "2009-03-12T16:28:07Z")
> [@put\_down\_the\_sabre](#): > > But I have to say that I think service in the US is - in general - terrible, and I think it’s because of the tips. The faux-friendliness, the almost-flirtation, the constant trips back to check ‘how everything is’? You are not my friend. Just leave us alone to eat! Curious. I find the level of service here to be much better. I’d rather shoo away an overly obsequious waiter than roam a restaurant looking for a missing one. The level of service in Britain is, to my mind, apalling. I still visit semi-regularly and find that good service is the rare… even in places where my brother and his wife are regulars (and they tip very well by UK standards.) The exceptions seem to be foreign staff; they live in Richmond, where it seems like half the waiters are Eastern European or Italian, and they are unfailingly cheerful and efficient. On the other hand, service in country pubs is always quite good. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=12)