# Bad tippers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747 "2009-03-08T18:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/121 "2009-03-10T01:56:26Z")
That is very true. And often they don’t. I have had several employers who turn you loose and fire you if can’t perform. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/122 "2009-03-10T02:19:48Z")
> [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](#): > > What did the tippers get that the non-tippers didn’t? Personal interaction: I laughed at their jokes, listened to them rant about their games and asked about their families. They seemed to appreciate that and were willing to pay for it. Heh. It’s like Lucy’s advice stand in Peanuts! A dollar or two for a paid friend ain’t so bad… do you do phone service too? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dgrdfd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/eb8c5e/32.png) [@dgrdfd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dgrdfd)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/123 "2009-03-10T02:28:11Z")
> [@filling\_pages](#): > > Yes, by raising the cost of food quite a bit. A high end restaurant in Florida generally pays wait staff around $3.15 an hour. For the level of service you expect, that would need to be raised by $10 an hour or more. That’s a huge new cost to the restaurant. Lower end restaurants - say, Denny’s or some other diner type place - would go with a flat minimum wage, and you’d get fast food level service. Me, I’d rather tip. People act like being a waiter is like performing brain surgery, and I have been a waiter so I feel qualified to speak on it. How hard is it to take my order, bring me a drink, and bring me my food? I could see if you are at a real high end restaurant where you are discussing the advantages of various wines with your imported baby Chinese asparagus, but by and large most are working in Dennys/Logans/Outback, etc style restaurants that are unskilled labor and take little to no education. I would consider the at least 10 to 20 dollars an hour the wait staff in every restaurant I have worked at to be pretty good for something that requires no virtually no education. Contrast that pay to the cook in the back, who unless he’s a chef in a high end restaurant, is making much closer to minimum wage than the wait staff. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/124 "2009-03-10T02:44:07Z")
Well, being an actor or frankly, a prostitute doesn’t require an education either, but people pay more for some than others. I’ve had lots of customers who didn’t tip me for slopping food in front of them. They paid me for how I treated them and made them feel. Not every customer needs the same treatment, but some definitely do. ---
**Author:** ![Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/brown_eyed_girl/32/3574_2.png) [@Brown\_Eyed\_Girl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brown_Eyed_Girl)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/125 "2009-03-10T02:45:44Z")
> [@Reply](#): > > Heh. It’s like Lucy’s advice stand in Peanuts! A dollar or two for a paid friend ain’t so bad… do you do phone service too? 😃 Will that be Visa or Mastercharge? 😉 Seriously, it was like being a bartender with fewer drunks and not having to actually work much. The only downsides were very long, mostly mind-numbingly boring days. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/126 "2009-03-10T02:48:37Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > People act like being a waiter is like performing brain surgery, and I have been a waiter so I feel qualified to speak on it. How hard is it to take my order, bring me a drink, and bring me my food? I could see if you are at a real high end restaurant where you are discussing the advantages of various wines with your imported baby Chinese asparagus, but by and large most are working in Dennys/Logans/Outback, etc style restaurants that are unskilled labor and take little to no education. I would consider the at least 10 to 20 dollars an hour the wait staff in every restaurant I have worked at to be pretty good for something that requires no virtually no education. Contrast that pay to the cook in the back, who unless he’s a chef in a high end restaurant, is making much closer to minimum wage than the wait staff. You are absolutely right- if it’s just me and you. When I have a twenty top in smoking, and it’s a little league team, and I have two in nonsmoking and both want to finish their apps before they get their meals, with another two on the patio who order perfectly politely directly from the menu, with no changes, and I have to split the bill on the twenty top nine ways and some folks won’t claim their items, I have to remember not to enter the entrees for the two folks in nonsmoking until they ‘appear’ to be halfway through the app, and then I have to get the manager because the parents of little billy on little league would NEVER let him have a sundae, and they refuse to pay it- and that is _half an hour_ in a waiter’s life at a Jojo’s (think perkins or denny’s). I consider my time at work taking difficult calls and typing on a computer heaven, thanks. And I will keep my baseline at 20%. I am not defending anyone, however, as the federal law only allows for guaranteed coverage up to minimum wage- so if you want to make more than federal minimum wage, then get another job! I am guaranteed what I signed on for, and that’s a bit more than minimum wage… ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/127 "2009-03-10T06:02:17Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > When I have a twenty top in smoking, and it’s a little league team, and I have two in nonsmoking and both want to finish their apps before they get their meals, with another two on the patio who order perfectly politely directly from the menu, with no changes, and I have to split the bill on the twenty top nine ways and some folks won’t claim their items, I have to remember not to enter the entrees for the two folks in nonsmoking until they ‘appear’ to be halfway through the app, and then I have to get the manager because the parents of little billy on little league would NEVER let him have a sundae, and they refuse to pay it- and that is _half an hour_ in a waiter’s life at a Jojo’s (think perkins or denny’s). hehe, well, you already admitted that you were a horrid waiter… Seriously, though, I enjoyed and appreciated your posts. i can’t promise much but someone will get a nice tip in your honor. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 10:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/128 "2009-03-10T10:01:17Z")
> [@Gus\_Gusterson](#): > > I’m an American and I go to Ireland once or twice a year. I _know_ that tipping isn’t customary in Ireland, but I can’t _understand_ it. I almost always leave at least 10%. Tipping in a restaurant of anything above fastfood quality is standard, if someone brings you a drink in a pub you usually tip them. I don’t think it is as rigidly codified as in the United States but it is common. The percentage is discretionary for the most part. Leaving higher than 10% isn’t all that common. ---
**Author:** ![Hi\_Neighbor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hi_neighbor/32/494_2.png) [@Hi\_Neighbor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hi_Neighbor)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/129 "2009-03-10T11:56:00Z")
Isn’t it considered an insult to tip in some parts of the world? ---
**Author:** ![justrob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a9adbd/32.png) [@justrob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/justrob)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/130 "2009-03-10T15:08:26Z")
> [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > Just to give you an idea of how bad it can be when it’s bad, so you don’t think servers are making more than you. > > One of my former coworkers worked a particularly slow lunch shift, which is 10-2 at my restaurant. She made $7. That’s it. That’s not even $2 an hour. And I used to work Monday lunch, and I would regularly make about $15. So almost $4 an hour. > [@RedRosesForMe](#): > > **Reply** , I have gotten defensive about 1) people repeating that tipping is _optional_ as if they don’t understand that servers make nothing hourly 2) this mentality that- look at how many tables s/he has, that’s a lot of money an hour! I oughta wait tables! -ignores the fact that some days you make $2 or $4 an hour 3) and now, people suggesting that perhaps I should find another profession. Seriously? Have I only worked in restaurants with rude, snotty, entitled servers that get mad when they get a 10% tip? Do servers elsewhere really get a dollar on $20 and think that’s cool? > > Let me clarify yet again. 15% tip when I’ve busted my ass for you- you’re cheap. Less than 15% and I’ve done a great job- you’re an asshole. There’s a big difference. I think I’m a fairly generous tipper so I am not going to get into whether 15% or 20% should be the standard. I would like to point out that you keep mis-representing what you make an hour. You seem to conveniently leave out the $4.19/hr base pay from the restaurant when you are talking about the low tip days. So some days you are only making $6-8/hr not $2-4/hr. $6-8/hr is not very much but it averages better when you include the days that you are making $15-20/hr in tips which with that $4.19/hr base pay works out to $19-24/hr. Admittedly that doesn’t include health insurance or pay for sick days but there are a lot of other jobs out there that don’t include those. Like the landscaping job I had working my way through school. I think minimum wage at the time was ~$5.75/hr and I was making $8/hr which was pretty good. Of course I didn’t have health insurance and if I was sick I didn’t get paid either. Of course if it rained too much I didn’t get to work and didn’t get paid either. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/131 "2009-03-10T15:35:35Z")
Wait staff love to brag about the good days. “I made $100. I made $200!” They don’t brag about the off-season days when they made $10 or the restaurant closed early and they got sent home, making $0. Everyone knows someone who knows someone who makes $200/night, but that’s all they remember, and it’s bullshit when you know the truth, and average out the salary. There are some pppular places where wait staff make big bucks, but it’s usually places where rent is $3000/month. ---
**Author:** ![Plan\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Plan\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plan_B)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/132 "2009-03-10T15:45:35Z")
It just occurred to me that maybe I’m a bad tipper. I don’t like when the rules are changed, so there are two problem areas. I never had to tip counter service before, like at Starbuck’s and I still won’t do it. And I don’t like how the tip range moved up to 15% to 20% so I won’t go above 15% (even though I used to occasionally). ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/133 "2009-03-10T15:50:12Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Wait staff love to brag about the good days. “I made $100. I made $200!” > > They don’t brag about the off-season days when they made $10 or the restaurant closed early and they got sent home, making $0. > > Everyone knows someone who knows someone who makes $200/night, but that’s all they remember, and it’s bullshit when you know the truth, and average out the salary. > > There are some pppular places where wait staff make big bucks, but it’s usually places where rent is $3000/month. It isn’t the only job like that. I have a lot of friends who are contractors (in the office sense) and others who are contractors (in the roofer or finished contractor sense). A cousin in law who is a truck driver. Few of them get benefits from their employers, many of them have spotty hours and weeks with little money coming in. It is one of the few professions where your compensation is dependent (as was said upthread) on the whim of your customers. Personally, I think that is wrong - but I think blaming your customers for a system that lets them exercise their whims is putting the blame in the wrong place. Ethically, stiffing your waiter is bad. Legally, its fine (and that is wrong). The big grey area of tipping significantly less (or not at all) for poor service, or if 15, 18, 20 or 22% is a “standard” tip is a different matter. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/134 "2009-03-10T15:52:28Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > **RedRosesForMe** - I have to mention that just recently you’ve had posts complaining that you were angry with your friend, who was allowing you to stay at her place while you were between apartments. She (or her husband) had expected you to do more household chores than you felt was fair. … Around Christmas you complained because some kid came into the game store and wanted to trade in games on a busy day when there was a new release. Jesus, this is the same person as the video game store rant? Because that was uterrly moronic. And this one’s not doing much better. 20% is a _good_ tip and the waiters that don’t understand that are the ones that don’t do a good enough job to earn a 20% tip regularly. ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/135 "2009-03-10T16:09:05Z")
Just to play the devil’s advocate for a sec, I don’t think it’s necessary to drag **RedRosesForMe** ’s past threads into this. This one is about tipping, not “let’s attack RedRoses any way we can!” ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/136 "2009-03-10T16:13:22Z")
**Reply** - I wasn’t trying to attack her, just pointing out that her general dissatisfaction with the world around her seems to be a trend. Sometimes you don’t realize there’s a problem until someone else sees the pattern. StG ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/137 "2009-03-10T16:33:59Z")
> [@StGermain](#): > > People don’t _owe_ you a 15-20% tip. In fact, until fairly recently (last 15 years or so) 10% was considered customary. For good service. Umm, no. Yes, the 20% thing is new and really only applies to super-ritzy restaurants with superb service. But it’s been 15% since I was old enough to pay for my own dinners, over 30 years. Yes, back when my Mom waited tables in a coffee shop, there it was 10%- _nearly half a century ago, in a coffee shop._ To go back to the 15% vs 20%- 20% is only standard in the really high end restaurants, and with better than average service. In Outback, etc it’s 15%- unless the service is exceptionally good. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/138 "2009-03-10T16:38:36Z")
> [@dgrdfd](#): > > People act like being a waiter is like performing brain surgery, and I have been a waiter so I feel qualified to speak on it. How hard is it to take my order, bring me a drink, and bring me my food? Have you ever done it? I’ve held maybe 15 jobs in my life, and none of them has ever been as difficult as waiting tables. Personally, I loved it. It was a rush. But it was tough. The closest thing to it is playing a complicated and fast paced puzzle game. It’s a merger of the mental and physical. You’ve got to be able to hold an ever-changing list of maybe 15 things to do that each have their own priorities and time lines. This to-do list is shifting on a second-to-second basis as you navigate the restaurant. Every few steps you take changes your priorities as you move close to some objectives and farther from others. Meanwhile things are being added and subtracted from the list every few seconds. You’ve got to have a perfect mental map of where every thing and every customer is so that you can move seamlessly through the restaurant without missing a beat or colliding with any moving bodies, hot things, sharp things or other dangers. On a mental level, it’s as exhausting as playing high speed competitive Tetris for hours on end. The physical part feels almost like a complicated dance. Wait staff develop an instinctual understanding of each other’s bodies and intentions as they glide past each other perfect co-ordination. When you are “on”, it can be really good. Like dancing with a good partner. But of course, it’s tiring. You literally do not stop moving- even for a few seconds- for your entire shift. And you are supposed to be nice while you do all of this. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/139 "2009-03-10T16:50:24Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Have you ever done it? > . Did you read what you quoted? Quote: Originally Posted by dgrdfd People act like being a waiter is like performing brain surgery, \*and I have been a waiter so I feel qualified to speak on \*it. How hard is it to take my order, bring me a drink, and bring me my food? ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/140 "2009-03-10T17:24:38Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Have you ever done it? > > I’ve held maybe 15 jobs in my life, and none of them has ever been as difficult as waiting tables. Personally, I loved it. It was a rush. But it was tough. The closest thing to it is playing a complicated and fast paced puzzle game. > > It’s a merger of the mental and physical. You’ve got to be able to hold an ever-changing list of maybe 15 things to do that each have their own priorities and time lines. This to-do list is shifting on a second-to-second basis as you navigate the restaurant. Every few steps you take changes your priorities as you move close to some objectives and farther from others. Meanwhile things are being added and subtracted from the list every few seconds. You’ve got to have a perfect mental map of where every thing and every customer is so that you can move seamlessly through the restaurant without missing a beat or colliding with any moving bodies, hot things, sharp things or other dangers. On a mental level, it’s as exhausting as playing high speed competitive Tetris for hours on end. > > The physical part feels almost like a complicated dance. Wait staff develop an instinctual understanding of each other’s bodies and intentions as they glide past each other perfect co-ordination. When you are “on”, it can be really good. Like dancing with a good partner. But of course, it’s tiring. You literally do not stop moving- even for a few seconds- for your entire shift. > > And you are supposed to be nice while you do all of this. I might add, that last part is where the skill often really comes in. The good service people amaze me with their ability to remain calm and talk to people who are being complete irrational assholes about things like smoking or insisting that they be served a drink even though they have no ID. Yes, these are people skills, not technical skills, but certainly not everyone can do it well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=8)