# Bad tippers. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 8, 2009, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747 "2009-03-08T18:29:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Backcountry\_Medic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/919ad9/32.png) [@Backcountry\_Medic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Backcountry_Medic)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/141 "2009-03-10T18:11:56Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Have you ever done it? > > I’ve held maybe 15 jobs in my life, and none of them has ever been as difficult as waiting tables. Personally, I loved it. It was a rush. But it was tough. The closest thing to it is playing a complicated and fast paced puzzle game. > > It’s a merger of the mental and physical. You’ve got to be able to hold an ever-changing list of maybe 15 things to do that each have their own priorities and time lines. This to-do list is shifting on a second-to-second basis as you navigate the restaurant. Every few steps you take changes your priorities as you move close to some objectives and farther from others. Meanwhile things are being added and subtracted from the list every few seconds. You’ve got to have a perfect mental map of where every thing and every customer is so that you can move seamlessly through the restaurant without missing a beat or colliding with any moving bodies, hot things, sharp things or other dangers. On a mental level, it’s as exhausting as playing high speed competitive Tetris for hours on end. > > The physical part feels almost like a complicated dance. Wait staff develop an instinctual understanding of each other’s bodies and intentions as they glide past each other perfect co-ordination. When you are “on”, it can be really good. Like dancing with a good partner. But of course, it’s tiring. You literally do not stop moving- even for a few seconds- for your entire shift. > > And you are supposed to be nice while you do all of this. I’ve also been a waiter and while your assessment here seems pretty good, there are a lot of jobs that are unpredicatble, dangerous, fast-paced and active. You could make this same list for a lineman, a police officer, an ER nurse, a firefighter or any number of other jobs. Sure, your knives may be a lineman’s live electrical wire, but the basic premise is the same. The only basic difference is how a waiter is paid versus all of those other jobs. I’ve traveled worldwide and I would much rather pay a higher flat rate than enter some vague social contract with a complete stranger and try to assess if they did a job deserving of 13.5% or 18.5%. Let the management watch the staff and punish or fire jerks as they see fit. It probably won’t affect my bottom line any and if nothing else it will end the “$4 afternoons vs $250 weekend dinner” debate once and for all. Like all of the jobs mentioned above, waitstaff would be paid based on hours worked (sometimes earning a lot of money per customer, sometimes earning next to nothing per person), they would have an expected income and they would pay taxes on all of their earnings, just like everyone else. I don’t expect this to happen because the only people served by it are the customers, I would expect that both the restaurant and the waiters realize the best deal they could hope for is the one we’ve already got. To say nothing of the disparity they suffer from the prices on the menu (which the waitstaff obviously don’t have any say in). Why does a mediocre waiter at a 100 dollar meal deserve 10% while the waitress busting her ass at Ihop might hope to get 20% on her 20 dollar tab? If anything, I would think that most of my money is going to the food items and the chef to cook them, since that’s the main reason to go out to a nicer dinner. No one would pay 100 dollars for Denny’s quality food, no matter how well garnished and presented it was or how many wines the server had personally tasted. That’s not the reason I go out to eat, at least. ---
**Author:** ![Saintly\_Loser](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saintly_loser/32/4045_2.png) [@Saintly\_Loser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saintly_Loser)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/142 "2009-03-10T18:56:44Z")
> [@ShibbOleth](#): > > You’re always going to have outliers, and those will stick in your head… whether they are the Canadians from the Maritime province (that don’t tip for shit) . . . I’ve never heard or seen this. And I’m married to someone from the Maritimes. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/143 "2009-03-10T18:59:14Z")
> [@Backcountry\_Medic](#): > > The only basic difference is how a waiter is paid versus all of those other jobs. I’ve traveled worldwide and I would much rather pay a higher flat rate than enter some vague social contract with a complete stranger and try to assess if they did a job deserving of 13.5% or 18.5%. Let the management watch the staff and punish or fire jerks as they see fit. It probably won’t affect my bottom line any and if nothing else it will end the “$4 afternoons vs $250 weekend dinner” debate once and for all. Like all of the jobs mentioned above, waitstaff would be paid based on hours worked (sometimes earning a lot of money per customer, sometimes earning next to nothing per person), they would have an expected income and they would pay taxes on all of their earnings, just like everyone else. I don’t expect this to happen because the only people served by it are the customers, I would expect that both the restaurant and the waiters realize the best deal they could hope for is the one we’ve already got. If I were running a restaurant, I would clearly explain our policy in the menu: “All bills will be subject to an added 18% service charge. Though it is not necessary or expected, our staff will graciously accept any additional gratuity you may choose to leave. Restaurant management will be happy to hear any comments you may have about the quality of your service.” Server receives the entirety of service charges for all of his or her tables, less 3% of total sales as tip-out to bussers and bartender. Because one of many great benefits to restaurant owners from the tips-as-payment system is that it encourages the staff to try to upsell cocktails from wells to calls, to move appetizers and desserts, to try to sell wine by the bottle, and all the rest of the things that mean more money for both the restaurant and for the server. Basing a service charge on the bill performs that same function. I think many servers would like it, because it’s a steady and reliable 15%-of-sales income (after tip-out), but leaves open the possibility of making more if they’re really good. Many servers would probably hate it, because they’d think they could make more under a standard tipping system (though I suspect they’d be wrong). Many diners would like it, because it removes the annoyance of figuring out what the appropriate percentage to tip is and then calculating it. Doing these things is not a huge deal, of course…but streamlining the process is nice. I would explain to any customer who was upset about the deal that this is how my servers are paid - they don’t receive an hourly rate, they’re essentially working on commission - and that servers are subject to performance review and discipline by restaurant management (which is true under the current tipping system, too), thus it is not necessary for the customers to mete out judgments through tips. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/144 "2009-03-10T19:05:54Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > If I were running a restaurant, I would clearly explain our policy in the menu: “All bills will be subject to an added 18% service charge. Though it is not necessary or expected, our staff will graciously accept any additional gratuity you may choose to leave. Restaurant management will be happy to hear any comments you may have about the quality of your service.” > > Server receives the entirety of service charges for all of his or her tables, less 3% of total sales as tip-out to bussers and bartender. What happens if the service is poor? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/145 "2009-03-10T19:06:10Z")
I’ve worked at places where the gratuity is added to parties of six or more. You wouldn’t believe the shit storm raised when costumers find out they don’t have control over the tip. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/146 "2009-03-10T19:23:06Z")
I still can’t get my head around the claim that tips are essential to make up a living wage. What if the kitchen has a cock-up? Now the patrons aren’t going to tip, yet it wasn’t the waiter’s fault. This system needs changing. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Have you ever done it? > > I’ve held maybe 15 jobs in my life, and none of them has ever been as difficult as waiting tables. Personally, I loved it. It was a rush. But it was tough. The closest thing to it is playing a complicated and fast paced puzzle game. What were your 15 jobs? I’ve not been a waiter myself, but pupils at my school have worked at restaurants to raise money for University. They tell me they had a couple of hours of training and practice, then were discreetly supervised the first day. After that they worked. I’ve been a computer programmer (3 weeks training and 6 months supervision), a teacher (3 years training) and an international chess player (10 years study). I can assure you that a single 7 hour game of chess in front of hundreds of spectators with a running commentary by a grandmaster is far more difficult than playing Tetris. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/147 "2009-03-10T19:31:39Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > What happens if the service is poor? You read the whole post, that’s what happens: [QUOTE=The Superhero] servers are subject to performance review and discipline by restaurant management (which is true under the current tipping system, too), thus it is not necessary for the customers to mete out judgments through tips. [/QUOTE] People are entitled to be paid for doing work. If they do their jobs poorly, then it is the job of their employers to remedy the situation. Car salesmen are paid on commission - but you don’t have the right, as a car buyer, to say, “Well, I don’t think the salesman did a very good job, so I’m going to pay less for the car.” You can go to the owner or manager of the dealership and complain, and then it’s the job of the manager to take steps from there. You want to sit at a table, have someone take your order, refill your water and iced tea, be available to get you more napkins or an extra fork or whatever else you may need, clear your dishes away when you’re done with them? Fine, but you have to pay for it. Not paying the person who does the work - even if they didn’t do as good a job as you’d like - simply isn’t an option. The idea of “controlling” a server through the tip is absurd, anyway. First off, you’re trying to punish them because they didn’t meet your standards after the fact. All they’re going to do when you leave a 10% tip is go back to the kitchen and complain to the first fellow server they encounter about the cheap bastard on table 53, then forget about it and move on to their next table. This will happen whether they were terrible and truly deserved a bad tip or they were great and you really are a cheap bastard. If the level of service you received was truly terrible and you’re not a cheap bastard, you’re far better off asking to see the manager and explaining to the manager why you’re unhappy, because the manager will do something about it. First of all, the manager will likely comp all or a portion of the bill (depending on his or her assessment of the value of your complaint). Secondly, when the server is checking out at the end of the night, the manager will say, “Hey, that guy on 53 tonight wasn’t happy. Why is that?” and disciplinary measures for poor performance will proceed, as necessary, from there. It’s the manager’s job to deal with complaints, not the server’s job to bear the brunt of your unhappiness. [QUOTE=levdrakon] I’ve worked at places where the gratuity is added to parties of six or more. You wouldn’t believe the shit storm raised when costumers find out they don’t have control over the tip. [/QUOTE] I would believe it, if I thought it were true. In all the years I waited tables, I don’t think I ever heard a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties, so long as that was clearly stated restaurant policy. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/148 "2009-03-10T19:32:37Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > If I were running a restaurant, I would clearly explain our policy in the menu: “All bills will be subject to an added 18% service charge. Though it is not necessary or expected, our staff will graciously accept any additional gratuity you may choose to leave. Restaurant management will be happy to hear any comments you may have about the quality of your service.” > -snip My policy is to NEVER tip a penny if I am forced to tip a percentage as part of the bill. You can have a disclaimer, but to me adding it means you have already evaluated the level of service for me, and apparently that is the best it gets. I think the idea of adding a fixed percentage is totally cool… wouldn’t mind it at all- but a decent waiter would have gotten more if I hadn’t been forced to pay the fixed rate. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/149 "2009-03-10T19:32:41Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > I’ve worked at places where the gratuity is added to parties of six or more. You wouldn’t believe the shit storm raised when \*\*costumers \*\*find out they don’t have control over the tip. Well, you know how those _theater_ people can be. Bunch of drama queens. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/150 "2009-03-10T19:33:58Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > If I were running a restaurant, I would clearly explain our policy in the menu: “All bills will be subject to an added 18% service charge. Though it is not necessary or expected, our staff will graciously accept any additional gratuity you may choose to leave. Restaurant management will be happy to hear any comments you may have about the quality of your service.” If I were running a restaurant, I would explain it clearly on the menu, too: No tipping. I would pay the staff exactly the same as you would, _but factor it into the prices of the food_. In other words, I raise the prices 15% and pass the differences on to the servers. I think a restaurant with a big sign saying “NO TIPPING REQUIRED: WE PAY OUR EMPLOYEES A LIVING WAGE” would be a good draw. > [@glee](#): > > I’ve been a computer programmer (3 weeks training and 6 months supervision) Three WEEKS? You mean all those years I spent studying programming languages, operating systems, data structures, control systems, embedded systems, flow control, algorithms, and math were _wasted_? I guess I should have gone for the three-week programming course instead. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/151 "2009-03-10T19:41:10Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > I would believe it, if I thought it were true. In all the years I waited tables, I don’t think I ever heard a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties, so long as that was clearly stated restaurant policy. So you’re calling me a liar. Good for you. I’ve waited tables too. It’s always stated on the menu, but some people get furious over it. A lot of people _like_ controlling the tip, despite how many people on message boards claim they’d like to do away with it. I get that. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/152 "2009-03-10T19:43:50Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > My policy is to NEVER tip a penny if I am forced to tip a percentage as part of the bill. You can have a disclaimer, but to me adding it means you have already evaluated the level of service for me, and apparently that is the best it gets. > > I think the idea of adding a fixed percentage is totally cool… wouldn’t mind it at all- but a decent waiter would have gotten more if I hadn’t been forced to pay the fixed rate. Yeah, I think a lot of people would be that way. But where I think it works out is that if you had tipped 25%, that’s well and good, but it’s balanced by the asshat the next table over who tips 5% for no good reason. Under my system, the server knows going in that they’ll get a reasonable amount of money on every single table. And yes, I, as the owner/manager of Hypothetical’s Fine Dining, would already have evaluated the level of service as the level appropriate to and expected by both myself and Hypothetical’s customers, and if a server isn’t meeting that standard, I (and not the customer) would be the appropriate person to deal with that situation. ---
**Author:** ![aaslatten](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f14d63/32.png) [@aaslatten](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aaslatten)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/153 "2009-03-10T19:46:36Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > My policy is to NEVER tip a penny if I am forced to tip a percentage as part of the bill. You can have a disclaimer, but to me adding it means you have already evaluated the level of service for me, and apparently that is the best it gets. > > I think the idea of adding a fixed percentage is totally cool… wouldn’t mind it at all- but a decent waiter would have gotten more if I hadn’t been forced to pay the fixed rate. I’ve known plenty of people with this same attitude, so I understand where you’re coming from, but I’m willing to pay above the added gratuity if the waiter deserves it. Why should the server have to pay for the policy? ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/154 "2009-03-10T19:47:29Z")
> [@gurujulp](#): > > I think the idea of adding a fixed percentage is totally cool… wouldn’t mind it at all- but a decent waiter would have gotten more if I hadn’t been forced to pay the fixed rate. That’s exactly what I’ve seen happen. Customers will say, "I was going to tip 20%, but YOU’RE FORCING ME TO PAY 15%??? I’m not tipping anything! How dare you??? This should be against the law! Not paying! ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/155 "2009-03-10T19:48:17Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > So you’re calling me a liar. Good for you. I’ve waited tables too. It’s always stated on the menu, but some people get furious over it. A lot of people _like_ controlling the tip, despite how many people on message boards claim they’d like to do away with it. > > I get that. No, I’m not calling you anything, and I’ll thank you not to put words in my mouth and then get indignant about it. I’m saying I’ve never seen it happen. My anecdotal evidence is as valid as yours. ---
**Author:** ![filling\_pages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b9bd4f/32.png) [@filling\_pages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filling_pages)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/156 "2009-03-10T19:55:59Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s exactly what I’ve seen happen. Customers will say, "I was going to tip 20%, but YOU’RE FORCING ME TO PAY 15%??? I’m not tipping anything! How dare you??? This should be against the law! Not paying! I’ve not just seen that while working in restaurants, I’ve got two uncles who have done that while we were out to eat. Embarrassing beyond belief. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/157 "2009-03-10T19:56:09Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > That’s exactly what I’ve seen happen. Customers will say, "I was going to tip 20%, but YOU’RE FORCING ME TO PAY 15%??? I’m not tipping anything! How dare you??? This should be against the law! Not paying! To clarify: I’m sure this kind of thing does happen, and I should not have implied that it never does, though I maintain that it has not occurred in my own experience. But I believe that for every 1 person who acts like this, there are ten more who don’t care. Of course, I also believe that somebody who explicitly says, “I was going to pay 20% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%” actually means, “I’m a cheap bastard and I was going to tip 10% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%.” I think that most people who would have paid 20% will pay that automatic gratuity and then add a few bucks extra to bring it up to 20%. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/158 "2009-03-10T20:00:22Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > You read the whole post, that’s what happens: > > People are entitled to be paid for doing work. If they do their jobs poorly, then it is the job of their employers to remedy the situation. > > Car salesmen are paid on commission - but you don’t have the right, as a car buyer, to say, “Well, I don’t think the salesman did a very good job, so I’m going to pay less for the car.” You can go to the owner or manager of the dealership and complain, and then it’s the job of the manager to take steps from there. > > I would believe it, if I thought it were true. In all the years I waited tables, I don’t think I ever heard a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties, so long as that was clearly stated restaurant policy. I did, and the rest of the post did not explain it to my satisfaction, and since you needed to add 5 paragraphs, clearly you did not think so either. In this case, you are adding an extra fee for service, over and above the amount charged for the food. Thereby, if I have a complaint about the food, I would disagree with the food charges- and a complaint about the service, I would dispute the service charge. I have indeed disputed the commission on a car purchase. I had a bad time with one salesman, tore up the contract and when the manager came out, he gave me another salesperson who got the commission on that sale. And the manager threw in a few nice bonuses I have indeed heard- and participated in “a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties”. We were eating at the Old Spagetti House (or something like that) in a large group of 40 for a retirement. Half the group got served quickly. The other half- with a different server- got their food 15 minutes later and the food was cold and had “set up”. Of course, this also caused issues with those who had been served on time, as it’s impolite to eat while the person next to you has nothing. We refused to pay the add’l “clearly stated” service charge for 1/2 the bill. on site management got stuffy since it was stated, they refused to take it off. However, when we wrote the real manager, they refunded the entire service fee, and gave us a 20% off discount for our next event of more than 10. You idea is a bad one. If you wanted service to be non-debatable, then just add it into the price and state “Gratutity is included in the price”. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/159 "2009-03-10T20:03:02Z")
> [@The\_Superhero](#): > > Of course, I also believe that somebody who explicitly says, “I was going to pay 20% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%” actually means, “I’m a cheap bastard and I was going to tip 10% and I’m unhappy that you’re forcing me to pay 15%.” I think that most people who would have paid 20% will pay that automatic gratuity and then add a few bucks extra to bring it up to 20%. Quite likely. I’ve seen all sorts of amateur scam artists in restaurants. Eat three quarters of the steak, then claim it was cooked wrong and not paying. Get me another. :rolleyes: Like that’s the first time I’ve seen that trick. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Superhero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Superhero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Superhero)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747/160 "2009-03-10T20:09:08Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > I have indeed heard- and participated in “a shit storm over added gratuity on large parties”. We were eating at the Old Spagetti House (or something like that) in a large group of 40 for a retirement. Half the group got served quickly. The other half- with a different server- got their food 15 minutes later and the food was cold and had “set up”. Of course, this also caused issues with those who had been served on time, as it’s impolite to eat while the person next to you has nothing. > > We refused to pay the add’l “clearly stated” service charge for 1/2 the bill. on site management got stuffy since it was stated, they refused to take it off. However, when we wrote the real manager, they refunded the entire service fee, and gave us a 20% off discount for our next event of more than 10. All I can say is that it sounds to me, based on limited details, more like a kitchen issue than a service issue (though I could certainly be wrong), and that I’m glad I never had to wait on you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tippers/488747.md?page=9)