# Bad tipping AND conservative nonsense? Straight Dopers, assemble! **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [January 8, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436 "2013-01-08T02:35:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/21 "2013-01-08T03:50:54Z")
Enough. **Sevencl** , your behavior here is trolling or very close to it. Everybody else, I remind you that insults aren’t allowed in MPSIMS. Everybody needs to knock it off immediately. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/22 "2013-01-08T03:53:40Z")
> [@sevencl](#): > > if not throwing good money at a total stranger because i don’t consider his wage situation any of my business makes me a retard, gurgle bleh durr. 14:59:59 ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/23 "2013-01-08T03:55:26Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > We’ve already seen one poster in this thread defending this sort of behavior, so what’s your justification for calling it “bullshit”? [This one](http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/banker-1-percent-tip-receipt_n_1299280.html) turned out to be fake. Not saying this one is but it’s happened. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/24 "2013-01-08T03:55:53Z")
> [@Sevencl](#): > > Can anyone explain WHY they think it’s my responsibility to make up for someone’s poor wages? It’s part of the cost of dining out. Ever wonder why when large parties go out to restaurants, the “tip” is automatically included as part of the bill? There is no option but to pay a 15% tip, or gratuity. Would you feel better if restaurants simply made it mandatory and included a tip in EVERY bill? ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/25 "2013-01-08T04:10:56Z")
I’m pretty sure **Sevencl** lives in Europe (Belfast perhaps, not sure I remember exactly) where tipping culture is significantly different. There is a possibility he’s simply ignorant of the appropriate restaurant etiquette of the US. ---
**Author:** ![ladyfoxfyre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ad7895/32.png) [@ladyfoxfyre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ladyfoxfyre)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/26 "2013-01-08T04:17:22Z")
No, he’s not ignorant of it, he specifically mentions it in his post. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/27 "2013-01-08T04:17:43Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > I remember an old letter to Ann Landers or Dear Abby. The letter writer told how he and his wife would leave as a “tip” a Bible verse written on a small piece of paper for the wait person. He was quite smug about it. > > Let’s all ignore Sevencl. Ignore who? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/28 "2013-01-08T04:25:17Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > I hope he goes back to that restaurant. I also hope he likes ice water. In his lap. I think hot coffee, or maybe something like cranberry juice, would be a better choice to throw in this jerk’s lap. ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/29 "2013-01-08T04:27:27Z")
@ Ambivalid - it’s not part of the cost of dining out most places. Most places, at least in Glasgow, don’t have automatic gratuities - though IMO it stops being a gratuity when it stops being optional. Either way, you can’t call something “part of the cost” when it’s optional. Yes, I do agree that there should be a system in place to make sure wait staff get a fair wage. In fact we already have a system, it’s called minimum wage, and it’s outrageous they don’t get it. But the reality is they don’t, so I can either not eat out in protest, eat out and spend more money than I have to, or eat out and let wait staff deal with their own employment issues. I choose the latter because I don’t see their wage as my responsibility. About an automatic service charge - if it was a flat fee, based on how much time the waiter spent serving me or how long I was in the restaurant or how many were in my party, I’d pay it. But I’d never pay a percentage (or rather, I wouldn’t go somewhere that charges a percentage). It takes the same amount of work to bring me a £8 glass of merlot as a £4 one. Waiters should be paid minimum wage and the price of food should go up to reflect it. I wouldn’t bat an eye at that. But I’m not going to make someone else’s wage my issue. I have my charitable causes and I have my social causes, but a waiter’s wage just isn’t one I want to take on. EDIT: @ a bunch of posters - she, not he. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/30 "2013-01-08T04:33:37Z")
For those of you so inclined, yes there is in fact a pit thread for **Sevencl**. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15874262#post15874262](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=15874262#post15874262) ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/31 "2013-01-08T04:49:47Z")
> [@Ambivalid](#): > > It’s part of the cost of dining out. Ever wonder why when large parties go out to restaurants, the “tip” is automatically included as part of the bill? There is no option but to pay a 15% tip, or gratuity. Would you feel better if restaurants simply made it mandatory and included a tip in EVERY bill? Well, personally, yes, I would. I hate tipping in restaurants. As far as I can tell, unless the waiter intentionally dumps a gallon of beer over my head and refuses to apologize, I’m a jerk if I tip less than 20%. Food tastes like shit? That’s not the waiter’s fault. Food took too long to arrive? Hey, the kitchen is busy, don’t take it out on the waitstaff. Slow refilling the water? It’s the damn restaurant owner’s fault for not hiring more staff, don’t punish the poor employees because they’re busy! Obnoxiously interrupted the conversation every 5 minutes so she could say “pardon my reach” to top off the water glass that was still 90% full? Hey, the owner should provide better training! Removed my drink when there still another mouthful of alcohol left? Don’t be a cheapskate, just order another drink! There’s a restaurant near work that I go to once a week or so when I don’t feel like cooking. I sit at the bar, all the staff know me. Usually they provide great service and I leave a nice tip - 20% and I round up to the nearest dollar. But occasionally they are slow or ignore me, or they screw up the order, and occasionally one server is rather rude. But I always feel like I will piss them off if I leave a small tip, and since they all know me and I go there frequently I don’t want to piss them off, so I leave 20% regardless of whether they screwed something up that night or not. It all irks me. I don’t mind the idea of tipping, but in practice it is totally fucked up in the US. I was in a taxi cab in New York the other day. There is a computerized screen that lets you pay by credit card (standardized across all NYC taxis as far as I can tell). It gives you three options for your tip by default: 20%, 25% and 30%. What. The. Fuck. It made me want to leave 10% just out of annoyance, but of course it’s probably not directly the driver’s fault so I can’t do that. Argh. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/32 "2013-01-08T04:59:44Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > I think hot coffee, or maybe something like cranberry juice, would be a better choice to throw in this jerk’s lap. Nah, coffee’s no good any more, ever since that McDonald’s incident, and cranberry juice stains the fuck out of the carpet. **Sevencl,** do you tip now? Did you tip last year, before the fiscal cliff/whatever went into place? Have you ever tipped? If so, why? If you stopped tipping at one point, when would that have been? ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/33 "2013-01-08T05:13:43Z")
@ Ethilrist no, never have. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/34 "2013-01-08T05:17:00Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > **Sevencl,** do you tip now? Did you tip last year, before the fiscal cliff/whatever went into place? Have you ever tipped? If so, why? If you stopped tipping at one point, when would that have been? She’s not even in the States. She’s vaguely aware of the US restaurant culture and seems to dig on threadshitting where she has no fucking idea what she’s talking about. Also seems to interject irrelevant information into pages-long threads she obviously didn’t read first. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/35 "2013-01-08T05:18:43Z")
\ ***Vincent ‘Vinnie’ Antonelli:** It’s not tipping I believe in. It’s overtipping. \* ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/36 "2013-01-08T05:32:26Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Of course, this is most probably a bullshit photo. > [@Lightnin](#): > > We’ve already seen one poster in this thread defending this sort of behavior, so what’s your justification for calling it “bullshit”? I’d like to see a cite to a reputable source that the note was actually left as a tip somewhere, rather than created for the purpose of recreational outrage, which I believe some of the youngsters these days call lulz. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/37 "2013-01-08T05:38:08Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I’d like to see a cite to a reputable source that the note was actually left as a tip somewhere, rather than created for the purpose of recreational outrage, which I believe some of the youngsters these days call lulz. True, it could be just a photo taken by the same tool who put it on the table. Post it, lulz at the outrage. I don’t know which is worse in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![dnooman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/839c29/32.png) [@dnooman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dnooman)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 5:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/38 "2013-01-08T05:55:26Z")
A person legitimately concerned about the extra pennies they might pay on a dinner bill, would simply not have that dinner bill, and eat at home. Any contrarian person that might choose to eat out, produce such a card, and be that much of an ass to a total stranger, knows exactly what they’re doing. Defending such behavior follows suit. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/39 "2013-01-08T06:34:37Z")
> [@Sevencl](#): > > @ Ambivalid - it’s not part of the cost of dining out most places. Most places, at least in Glasgow, don’t have automatic gratuities - though IMO it stops being a gratuity when it stops being optional. Either way, you can’t call something “part of the cost” when it’s optional. > > Yes, I do agree that there should be a system in place to make sure wait staff get a fair wage. In fact we already have a system, it’s called minimum wage, and it’s outrageous they don’t get it. But the reality is they don’t, so I can either not eat out in protest, eat out and spend more money than I have to, or eat out and let wait staff deal with their own employment issues. I choose the latter because I don’t see their wage as my responsibility. > > About an automatic service charge - if it was a flat fee, based on how much time the waiter spent serving me or how long I was in the restaurant or how many were in my party, I’d pay it. But I’d never pay a percentage (or rather, I wouldn’t go somewhere that charges a percentage). It takes the same amount of work to bring me a £8 glass of merlot as a £4 one. > > Waiters should be paid minimum wage and the price of food should go up to reflect it. I wouldn’t bat an eye at that. But I’m not going to make someone else’s wage my issue. I have my charitable causes and I have my social causes, but a waiter’s wage just isn’t one I want to take on. > > EDIT: @ a bunch of posters - she, not he. In the U.S., the waiters do NOT receive minimum wage, because they’re expected to make up the rest of their pay in tips. ---
**Author:** ![Sevencl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@Sevencl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sevencl)\ **Post date:** [January 8, 2013, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436/40 "2013-01-08T06:36:21Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > In the U.S., the waiters do NOT receive minimum wage, because they’re expected to make up the rest of their pay in tips. Yes, I know that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bad-tipping-and-conservative-nonsense-straight-dopers-assemble/646436.md?page=3)