# BadChad, a moment of your time, if you can spare it **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 18, 2006, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158 "2006-09-18T12:14:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/321 "2006-09-19T17:43:41Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] No, you think the shit you believe in is the word of God, and for no other reason than than it is the shit you choose to believe in. If you could shut your fucking trap about it for two consecutive seconds, I wouldn’t really give two shits about what you do or don’t believe in, but you can’t and you don’t and I therefore treat you with the same disregard and contempt I treat other monomanical babblers with. Welcome to planet earth. [/QUOTE] Wow. 🙂 You don’t know _what_ I believe, and you don’t know _why_ I believe it. And you can’t really argue with it, so you throw a temper tantrum. Where your personal vitriol is coming from I neither know nor care. I’ve never before on the Boards seen someone’s substantive response reduced to “You shut up!”, but I can only reply as I used to when I was a kid and another kid told me to shut up: Make me, Mr. Poopy Pants! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/322 "2006-09-19T17:54:50Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] My suggestion, as a fellow atheist, is that your arguments will have better success convincing people, especially those who are “on the fence” (who are the vast majority of people who might be convinced), if you make an attempt to be less confrontational and less insulting. [/quote] I appreciate your sentiments but sometimes polite conversation just gets ignored. Sometimes my more aggressive style gets ignored too, but with the combination of styles (kind of good cop/bad cop) things get drawn into the open adequately. Besides, the world loves a villain.😉 [QUOTE=Revtim] Once a person gets into defensive mode, any chance of convincing them of your argument pretty much goes flying out the window, no matter how logicially sound it is. [/quote] While I am sure that is often true, I read a psych book that stated that if a person argues a point, and is left with the feeling he did so successfully, he becomes even surer that his point is correct. This is why I argue to win. I like to make it such that my opponent knows they did not argue successfully. [QUOTE=Revtim] (Not that I’ve ever convinced a theist to be an atheist, to my knowledge, but I have changed minds on other topics.) [/quote] I’ve converted 6 that I know about. One of my friends, who makes use of my arguments in college said he just had 3 people come up to him and say because of what he said they were now atheists. I said “Rock on.” So while I can’t say that my method is the best, I think it has some merit. [QUOTE=Revtim] **Der Trihs** , I also ask you to consider being less confrontational. [/quote] Respectfully, I hope he doesn’t. Der Trihs is one of the few to call a spade a spade. Christianity is in our estimation is not only wrong but morally bankrupt and it is very hard to point that out politely. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/323 "2006-09-19T17:55:30Z")
[QUOTE=pseudotriton ruber ruber] Ooh, sarcasm! It’s so scary! Lets run away! Do you approve, smartass, of labelling **badchad** a troll? Why? What are the troll-like qualities you find? I do not think that word means what what you think it means. [/QUOTE] Oh for crissakes. It’s fucking obvious that he enjoys posting the most provocative, deliberately inflammatory arguments he can make, purely to get a rise out of others. He’s constantly gloating about how he “got you!” as if there’s somehow a competition. The use of his sig to mock **Polycarp** for some stupid reason and the way he followed **Poly** around was pathetic. And being told NOT to post his sig again by a mod, he did so deliberately. He’s not interested in honest debate-he only wants to stir shit up and somehow “prove” that he’s right and everyone else is wrong. And his ignorance of the history of Christianity is painfully obvious. Look, I don’t give a shit if you’re an atheist, a Christian, or whatever. But don’t act like a jackass. We also have PLENTY of atheist posters who don’t get Pitted for this sort of thing, so can the bullshit about how he’s being persecuted for his beliefs. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/324 "2006-09-19T17:57:52Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] But said “Christians” generally don’t believe in the teaching **S** of Christ. They have aversions to giving all their stuff away, hating their families, condemning divorces and remarriage, and not saving for their retirements. They generally only want to follow easy sensible stuff like the golden rule and easy nonsensical stuff like loving god, both of which are in the Old Testament. [/QUOTE] The Golden Rule is in the OT? I did not know that. ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/325 "2006-09-19T17:58:10Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] My suggestion, as a fellow atheist, is that your arguments will have better success convincing people, especially those who are “on the fence” (who are the vast majority of people who might be convinced), if you make an attempt to be less confrontational and less insulting…Changing minds is more important that mentally scoring points on a message board. [/QUOTE] I could be wrong, but my guess is that **badchad** is not hoping to convince those he debates with so much as hoping to demolish them in front of others so as to lead the others to conclude “ **badchad** was right, 'cuz he won the debate”. My personal opinion is that we should not brand him “troll” and evict him from our midst, but that when someone goes up against him in a thread, those who care about the issue(s) should post their own responses to the perspectives being put forth — not try to pile on in an overall sense _pro_ or _anti_ **badchad** but, since he appears to want to make these things adversarial and winning-centric, to score the debates (“ **Poster** has a good point there” / “\*\*I dunno, **Poster** isn’t really addressing the question that **badchad** asked” / **badchad** is restating what he said on page 3 and **Poster** already addressed that). In other words, if we’re going to do cage matches, let’s have some referees. It shouldn’t have to be like being a guest on O’Reilly or Coulter, where the only way to avoid being shouted down is to adopt the same tactics . Maybe even convene a panel with people of varying theological persuasions and have a formal debate or something. I don’t care for the whole “I’m here to win” thing but I think **badchad** has some good challenging material questions that would be fun to address, and to address each other’s responses & whatnot. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/326 "2006-09-19T17:58:09Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] I don’t think any atheist is telling you what you have to believe. Were just saying that what you Christians believe (fundamentalist, liberal, and/or you Jodi in particular) is irrational, and sometimes hateful. [/QUOTE] Since you don’t know _what_ I believe, how would you know that it’s irrational or hateful? You can only reach this conclusion after YOU decide what I have to believe and after YOU tell me what the text or passage has to mean. You’re not interested in what I _actually_ believe, and you’re completely incapable of beiing minimally civil in discussing what I believe. You have your comfy little straw man of “this is what Christianity is [because I say so] and this is what Christians believe [because I say so], and so the whole system is evil,” and you amuse yourself setting it up and knocking it down, and you give yourself a naughtly little boner by being as outrageous as you possibly can and trolling around after POLYCARP. You’re a one-trick pony, and it’s a boring trick. You can inform me to your heart’s content that what I believe is irrational and hateful and that actually _in reality_ I’m in favor of human sacrafice after which we sit around and nibble on the heart while singing Christmas carols. Your reality is not my reality, and your reality – at least as demonstrated on the Boards – is boring, man. You’ve made your position clear. I disagree with it, to say the least. I’m not entertained or outraged enough to refute your position, and I can’t get worked up enough to try without a payment of entertainment or outrage, because I don’t respect you. We could talk about something else, except that you _don’t_ talk about anything else, ever. (I assume your boner subsides.) Yet _I’m_ the one who gets told to shut up. It’s through the looking glass, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/327 "2006-09-19T17:59:24Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Wow. 🙂 You don’t know _what_ I believe, and you don’t know _why_ I believe it. [/QUOTE] Now, would be a very good time for a statement of your faith **Jodi**. It will help ensure that you are no longer misunderstood. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/328 "2006-09-19T18:03:43Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] While I am sure that is often true, I read a psych book that stated that if a person argues a point, and is left with the feeling he did so successfully, he becomes even surer that his point is correct. This is why I argue to win. I like to make it such that my opponent knows they did not argue successfully. [/QUOTE] The problem is, the more confrontational and insulting you are, the _more_ likely your theist opponent will be left with the feeling he or she argued successfully. People often feel that when one side is insulting, that means that side’s argument is weak. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/329 "2006-09-19T18:05:55Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Since you don’t know _what_ I believe, how would you know that it’s irrational or hateful? [/QUOTE] You are the one who labeled yourself a Christian, are you not? We can make at least a few assumptions based on that can’t we? If you’re being misunderstood about what you believe, I think it is only because you have been keeping your beliefs very private. From the outside it almost seems as if you wish to be misunderstood. Again, how about a statement of your beliefs so as to end all this confusion? ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/330 "2006-09-19T18:06:19Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] Wow. 🙂 You don’t know _what_ I believe, and you don’t know _why_ I believe it. And you can’t really argue with it, so you throw a temper tantrum. Where your personal vitriol is coming from I neither know nor care. I’ve never before on the Boards seen someone’s substantive response reduced to “You shut up!”, but I can only reply as I used to when I was a kid and another kid told me to shut up: Make me, Mr. Poopy Pants! 😃 [/QUOTE] Well, based on what you’ve told us here, I guess we \*don’t \* know what you believe. I can understand not buying into any of the stuff other people said, but I assume you believe what the bible says jesus said. Do you believe that the statements \*attributed \* to christ were actually _uttered_ by christ? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/331 "2006-09-19T18:06:55Z")
[QUOTE=jsgoddess] Not exactly. I’m saying that a missionary is a missionary. And all missionaries are annoying as hell. That said, though, I guess he does belong in GD, since that’s the forum for witnessing. Being proselytized is one of the most fundamentally (urk) irritating and insulting things in the world. Atheists should grasp that above all people. [/QUOTE] So, what exactly compels _you_ to read his exchanges? And if you don’t, why would it bother you that he acts as “heathen missionary”? After all, he’s doing it on a feakin’ _messge board_. Easy enough enough to ignore his posts and/or threads, not like he’s forcing anyone to respond. The way I see it, he’s throwing well-backed/thought-out points of contention vis-a-vis Xtianity and taking on all comers. OTOH, AFAIK, he’s not banging on any doors or stopping people on the street in order to change their minds – come to think of what atheists _would_? Not like the US as a whole is very tolerant of secular views, thus what better place to vent/rant/debate all the absurdities of The Book than a place like this one? He’s neither breaking board rules nor forcing all the “outraged” Xtians to listen/read/respond to him. Hmmm…could it be that they are so frustrated because they simply _can’t_ handle his arguements? Tough titty if that’s the case. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/332 "2006-09-19T18:10:45Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] The problem is, the more confrontational and insulting you are, the _more_ likely your theist opponent will be left with the feeling he or she argued successfully. People often feel that when one side is insulting, that means that side’s argument is weak. [/QUOTE] Or for people not even to take him seriously, or listen to him at all. Another question, **badchad** , and this is serious, not meant to be confrontational, but: Why do you ONLY post about religion here? Why don’t you ever contribute to other discussions? ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/333 "2006-09-19T18:16:04Z")
In light of **AHunter’s** post I should also be clear that I have never advocated for banning **badchad**. He has as much right to post as anyone else, so long as he follows the rules. I do think the sort of intentional provoking he does is poor form, but on these Boards especially, we ought to be smart enough to see that for what it is and act accordingly, be that to take the bait or to ignore it. At some point, it _does_ dance right up to the line of “being a jerk,” IMO, but the point at which he falls over it, if ever, is best left to TPTB. I mean, my personal response to the outraged Christians who think he’s a big sucking asshole is “then why are you talking to him?” ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/334 "2006-09-19T18:17:52Z")
[QUOTE=Revtim] The problem is, the more confrontational and insulting you are, the _more_ likely your theist opponent will be left with the feeling he or she argued successfully. People often feel that when one side is insulting, that means that side’s argument is weak. [/QUOTE] You might be right. What did you think of the style of argument I used in the post most recently linked by RedFury? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2967937&postcount=193](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2967937&postcount=193) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/335 "2006-09-19T18:23:43Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] He’s neither breaking board rules . [/QUOTE] (snipage) Have you read the Mod warnings to him? 😕 I just ignore his rantings, but his \*violations of the rules \* are what make him “ban-worthy”. That last “Mod-baiting” went _far_ over the line. ---
**Author:** ![Jodi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/7feea3/32.png) [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/336 "2006-09-19T18:23:53Z")
[QUOTE=badchad] Now, would be a very good time for a statement of your faith **Jodi**. It will help ensure that you are no longer misunderstood. [/QUOTE] By which I assume you admit that you do not know what I believe? And you admit that you do not know that what I believe is hateful and irrational? And you admit that this statement: “We’re just saying that what you Jodi in particular believe is irrational, and sometimes hateful” is something you pulled out of your ass, correct? ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/337 "2006-09-19T18:37:46Z")
[QUOTE=Guinastasia] Why do you ONLY post about religion here? [/quote] On this message board it’s what interests me most. I did a lot of study to extract myself from religion, and in doing so I am very certain of my conclusions. I have what I would call a sunk cost in a somewhat specialized knowledge, and it’s kind of fun to swing it around every once and a while. I do think the world would be a better place if people gave up on the concept that faith (as I have previously defined it) has merit. [QUOTE=Guinastasia] Why don’t you ever contribute to other discussions? [/QUOTE] A combination of a lack of time for doing so, not having specialized knowledge in a given area, and/or other people saying what I would say as well or better than I could. I do read a lot of other topics here. FWIW, I’m against the war in Iraq; I think Bush is an idiot; I think drugs should be legalized; the two party system should be abolished; I like guns; and I hate taxes. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/338 "2006-09-19T18:39:42Z")
[QUOTE=RedFury] So, what exactly compels _you_ to read his exchanges? And if you don’t, why would it bother you that he acts as “heathen missionary”? After all, he’s doing it on a feakin’ _messge board_. Easy enough enough to ignore his posts and/or threads, not like he’s forcing anyone to respond. [/QUOTE] I generally do ignore him, just as I ignore telemarketers and street preachers. He’s about as valuable. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/339 "2006-09-19T18:40:07Z")
[QUOTE=DrDeth] (snipage) Have you read the Mod warnings to him? 😕 I just ignore his rantings, but his \*violations of the rules \* are what make him “ban-worthy”. That last “Mod-baiting” went _far_ over the line. [/QUOTE] Oh yes…extremely over the line…even though the mod acknowleged the vague wording in the rule. On top of the fact that he’s had that sig line for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![badchad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b77776/32.png) [@badchad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/badchad)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2006, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158/340 "2006-09-19T18:42:06Z")
[QUOTE=Jodi] By which I assume you admit that you do not know what I believe? And you admit that you do not know that what I believe is hateful and irrational? And you admit that this statement: “We’re just saying that what you Jodi in particular believe is irrational, and sometimes hateful” is something you pulled out of your ass, correct? [/QUOTE] Well actually I think I do know enough of what you believe. I just want to have you state your beliefs so as to end any confusion. Why do you want this confusion to continue? Also you misquoted me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badchad-a-moment-of-your-time-if-you-can-spare-it/373158.md?page=18)