BadChad, a moment of your time, if you can spare it

[RedFury]

Holy Trinity :smack:

Perdonenme, queridos Jesuitas!

[Zoe]

badchad: It seemed that in your discussions with Kalhoun and Diogenes that you were trying to advance the idea that your viewpoints had merit, at the very least. That implies that you want them to accept at least some of your beliefs.

I don’t think my inference was incorrect, I just think you won’t admit it.

Then you have set yourself up as an authority on my motives. Not very rational.

I imagine you get your Jesus commands from the bible. So what makes you think some apply to you and not others?

I don’t think that Jesus is limited to the Bible. Never have.

I don’t think using my intuition is the best method of argument, but that doesn’t mean I don’t have any.

But I’m not about “argument” in answering your questions, badchad. I was at one time a judge for the national forensic competitions and know a little about debate. But I don’t “argue” my beliefs. They are mine.

Besides, this is a Pitting, not Great Debates. (You are getting a little better there, to your credit.)

Let the record show that Zoe, is afraid of answering questions that will reveal her hypocrisy and as such I seeking to escape into lunacy. That’s a new one.

I was amused that you thought that I would have to place myself in the orphanage in order to find the Muslim’s brainwashed impulses despicable. I had hoped that you might understand a more subtle response.

So you have goaded me into a direct response, you rascal! It is not okay with me. Even entertaining the thought of violence is not okay. I am a pacifist. I believe that many human beings are conditioned to believe that we are different from each other when we are basically the same.

BTW, my lunacy is nothing new and not an escape. But that’s not what we’ve been talking about here. I’ve talked about it in other posts.

Why are you so obsessed with the subject of Christianity and God? If you don’t want to answer questions, you might not want to raise the hypocrisy issue quite so loudly.

[badchad]

@Zoe

Then you have set yourself up as an authority on my motives. Not very rational.

Saying I don’t believe you, is not setting myself up as an authority on your motives, nor irrational.

I don’t think that Jesus is limited to the Bible. Never have.

Ok, so what other knowledge do you have of him?

Also, I’ll ask for a 3rd time (at least), what do you think Jesus taught about the afterlife? How, if at all, do your beliefs differ? Be specific please.

I was amused that you thought that I would have to place myself in the orphanage in order to find the Muslim’s brainwashed impulses despicable. I had hoped that you might understand a more subtle response.

Your response wasn’t subtle, it was ridiculous.

So you have goaded me into a direct response, you rascal! It is not okay with me. Even entertaining the thought of violence is not okay. I am a pacifist. I believe that many human beings are conditioned to believe that we are different from each other when we are basically the same.

And you all say I’m a poor debater. Now we have established that we both agree that beliefs that have no rational support but are held by brainwashing, hope, and want, are not ok. Now that we can agree about the hypothetical Muslim, you can hopefully see why it is fair that I apply the same reasoning to you.

BTW, my lunacy is nothing new and not an escape. But that’s not what we’ve been talking about here. I’ve talked about it in other posts.

What do you mean by that?

Why are you so obsessed with the subject of Christianity and God?

As I have said before, I think irrationally held beliefs based on brainwashing, hope, and want, can be very dangerous. I pick on Christianity the most because it is the irrational belief in which I am most familiar.

If you don’t want to answer questions, you might not want to raise the hypocrisy issue quite so loudly.

What questions are you suggesting I don’t wish to answer?

[badchad]

@duffer

Jesus is the ideal in human action and interaction to Christians. He is a model by which some of us strive to follow.

I don’t think you strive at all duffer.

I think your expectation of saintliness among Christians is far more absurd than your expectation of Christians to emulate Christ in all phases of life.

I don’t know where I said Christians must be saintly. I do think they should make an effort to follow the teaching of Jesus if they want to call themselves followers of Christ or Christian.

When you can prove Man is capable of living a life with no wrongdoing, that’ll be good enough for me in your assertion that there is no God.

One doesn’t follow the other, but being as you’re Christian, the reasoning skills necessary realize this may be lacking.

If your problem is sinning religious people, I can see the point. Vaguely. What the hell is wrong with people trying to be better no matter the focus?

If by “trying to be better” it requires irrational thought, I have a lot of problem with it, which I pointed out elsewhere.

If you come in here tomorrow and hand us proof there is no God, you know what will happen?

Man will find another thing to believe in.

Hopefully next time they will believe in something true and nice, rather than obviously false and hateful.

Until you show the quantataive proof that you know best and should be listened to, shut the fuck up. Until you have more proof than any other on what is right and true, shut the fuck up. You’re tiresome and fast becoming a joke on this issue. You don’t think there’s a God, and disdain anyone that does. We get it. Shut the fuck up.

Until you Christians show the quantitative proof that you know best and should be listened to shut the fuck up. Until you have more proof than any other on what is right and true, shut the fuck up. You’re all tiresome and your beliefs have been a joke to learned people for many centuries. You think there is a god, you believe in magic, and think those who don’t are somehow less than you. We get it, you’re an idiot. Now shut the fuck up.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

For the love of zeus, kill it, somebody!

[Zoe]

badchad, I have been very open with you and straightforward. If you are unprepared for the answers I have given, then perhaps it is you should think further about the questions. (Or not, as you choose.) I understand my answers and am satisfied.

You already know the answers to some of the questions that you ask me. I was willing to answer questions about my beliefs.

I haven’t said that you are a poor debater, but you do have a lot of room for improvement. If you were in high school or college, I would snap you up in a minute to be trained in the ways of debate. You have a good mind, but it lacks a knowledge of debating tactics. (You can, by the way, find help on the internet.)

May I suggest that you learn the difference in brainwashing and conditioning. Until you do, you are overstating your case. When you do that, people turn a deaf ear to your arguments and reject them.

If I had been “brainwashed,” I would follow the beliefs in which I was brought up. I was somewhat “conditioned,” but even then broke away from most of the traditional beliefs. I suspect that you wanted me to be brainwashed so much that you didn’t even notice.

Brainwashing uses specific techniques such as sleep deprivation.

You have some irrational beliefs yourself. You combine them with hostility and personal insults hurled at people that you do not know well. To you they are just names on a message board and they bear the label “Christian.” You know little else.

You don’t know who is mentally ill, who is dying, who has just lost a child to cystic fibrosis, or who is a convict. You seem to feel comfortable in being cruel and disrespectful. Either you see us as not quite “real” (which would be irrational) or you are not really here for answers, but for the pleasure of the insulting argument.

I used to be angry like that. It was quite a rush!

But the quietness inside is better. The peace is better. Centeredness is better.

[thirdwarning]

@Der Trihs

As far as the larger issue of being insulting while discussing religion goes, I’ll say this. I, and apparently badchad, honestly look upon Christianity as evil, stupid, and/or crazy. I can’t really say that to people who believe it without being insulting, and I feel no obligation to respect stupid or vile beliefs. Nor do I expect to convince anyone; if people weren’t beyind reason on the subject of religion, they wouldn’t be religious in the first place.

It’s perfectly possible to tell believers that you don’t share their beliefs, it’s also possible to tell them why, without being insulting. Personally, I don’t have a bit of a problem with you saying you think Christianity is evil, stupid, or crazy. I don’t have to agree with you, and I certainly am not about to think I can force you to agree with me. But you’re using “honesty” as an excuse not to be civil or adult about it. I really don’t know if you have any valid points to make, because I don’t bother to read your posts. I do read those posters, and I do listen to the opinions of people IRL, who can express themselves without intent to offend.

I talk about religion here mainly to vent, because it’s not safe to do so face to face.

And now who has a persecution complex?

[thirdwarning]

Well, okay, I’m out of here now. Obviously I posted without remembering there was more of the thread. And a whole lot more, I see. Sorry for the interruption.

[badchad]

@Zoe

badchad, I have been very open with you and straightforward.

If by “very open” and “straightforward” you mean you answered my questions only after being goaded to do so, then yes, I’ll say you have been open and straightforward. While your thinking of yourself as open and straightforward I’ll ask you
for the fourth time:

What do you think Jesus taught about the afterlife? How, if at all, do your beliefs differ? Be specific please.

If you are unprepared for the answers I have given, then perhaps it is you should think further about the questions. (Or not, as you choose.) I understand my answers and am satisfied.

Whatever makes you think I have been unprepared for your answers?

May I suggest that you learn the difference in brainwashing and conditioning. Until you do, you are overstating your case.

My use the term brainwashing is accurate. I’ve read several books on the topic, and it fits with religious indoctrination quite nicely. Looking on dictionary.com I think “brainwashing” is a better descriptor than your “conditioning” but I suppose it’s a little less flattering to you.

If I had been “brainwashed,” I would follow the beliefs in which I was brought up. I was somewhat “conditioned,” but even then broke away from most of the traditional beliefs. I suspect that you wanted me to be brainwashed so much that you didn’t even notice.

You still follow the beliefs in which you were brought up. However you live in a society that holds a lot of conflicting beliefs and differing teachings that still for the most part center on the Judeo Christian god mixed with some also conflicting (with religion) scientific knowledge. In our short correspondence with you it seems you hold to a lot of conflicting and differing teachings that are still for the most part centered on the Judeo Christian god, smattered with some conflicting (with religion) scientific knowledge. This is exactly what I should expect.

Brainwashing uses specific techniques such as sleep deprivation.

Sure, like forced repetitions of standing up, sitting down, singing songs, chanting prayers, and ritualized cannibalism, all with the expressed rewards of eternal paradise vs. the expressed threat of eternal hellfire.

You have some irrational beliefs yourself.

I’m sure I probably do, but it does not seem that you know of any.

You combine them with hostility and personal insults hurled at people that you do not know well. To you they are just names on a message board and they bear the label “Christian.” You know little else.

I know Christianity, in any form, is boneheaded. That’s enough to start with.

[CarnalK]

Since this thread got bumped I thought I’d use the oppurtunity to follow up on something I mentioned post #702:

I’m trying to find some reference to a study that seemed to show that certain decisions seem on reflex, with the contemplative parts of the brain engaging AFTER the fact. The participants reported that they had made a concious decision, leading the researchers to believe people were automatically rationalizing their instincts (i.e. tacking conciousness onto it afterwards). Can’t find anything at the moment but if anyone else with better resources or Google-fu can I’d appreciate you helping my recollection.

I was thinking of a study done by Benjamin Libet. His wikipedia entry describes the experiment but there’s other sources out there for anyone who wants to search.