# Badminton players DQ from Olympics for throwing matches **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [August 1, 2012, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062 "2012-08-01T15:22:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/41 "2012-08-01T21:05:36Z")
> [@notfrommensa](#): > > I have watched NBC for most of the day. No mention of the Badminton DQs. > > They did mention about the bus hitting and killing a pedestrian (or bicyclist)? I wonder if London has a bunch of signs and stuff to warn tourist to look to the right instead of the left. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/42 "2012-08-01T21:08:17Z")
> [@pancakes3](#): > > I personally don’t think it’s that big a deal. Is there anyone else who thinks that way? It depends if it had any effect on other teams. For example, team A loses on purpose to team B, which results in team B unfairly ranking ahead of team C. If a game is totally meaningless except for switching the rankings of the 2 teams playing, however, I think that is more the fault of the setup allowing such a situation. The team which went into such a game ahead should probably just be allowed to choose their path and save everyone the farce. ---
**Author:** ![sachertorte](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sachertorte/32/3727_2.png) [@sachertorte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sachertorte)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/43 "2012-08-01T21:13:55Z")
The main reason people/organizers care is that the games don’t simply exist just to exist. Their goal is to sell tickets. If the match play is sucky then they won’t be able to sell tickets. At the next tournament or olympics I can see people simply not wanting to waste money on the round robin since there would be a chance that the teams would be intentionally losing. Who would want to waste their money? That’s why the teams are getting hit hard for this. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/44 "2012-08-01T21:58:45Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I wonder if London has a bunch of signs and stuff to warn tourist to look to the right instead of the left. There are, typically painted on the crosswalks. ---
**Author:** ![Cliffy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/59ef9b/32.png) [@Cliffy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cliffy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/45 "2012-08-01T22:30:26Z")
> [@sachertorte](#): > > I wonder if London has a bunch of signs and stuff to warn tourist to look to the right instead of the left. Yeah, they’re extremely conspicuous. There’s a sense in which this shouldn’t be a big deal; it’s an obvious way to secure a competitive advantage. But that kind of reductive thinking is useless in the world of sport for this reason – _sports_ shouldn’t be a big deal. They’re a completely cosmetic endeavor. No one needs sports. And yet they _are_ important, and they are socially valuable, and the reason they are is because they are about the application of talent, grace, drive, effort, and passion to a task, despite the meaningless of that task in any global context. And in sports, you win by _striving_, you don’t win by tanking. –Cliffy ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/46 "2012-08-01T22:49:35Z")
> [@Cliffy](#): > > Yeah, they’re extremely conspicuous. > > There’s a sense in which this shouldn’t be a big deal; it’s an obvious way to secure a competitive advantage. But that kind of reductive thinking is useless in the world of sport for this reason – _sports_ shouldn’t be a big deal. They’re a completely cosmetic endeavor. \*\* No one needs sports.\*\* And yet they _are_ important, and they are socially valuable, and the reason they are is because they are about the application of talent, grace, drive, effort, and passion to a task, despite the meaningless of that task in any global context. And in sports, you win by _striving_, you don’t win by tanking. > > –Cliffy emphasis mine: No one needs air conditioning either, but speaking as person who lives in the Mississippi River Delta, it sure is nice. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/47 "2012-08-01T23:19:45Z")
I agree it’s a flaw of the tournament format. It’s not a particularly new problem either - the football world cup had to deal with this sort of bullshit years ago - their solution was to play all the final matches in a group simultaneously. Group stages are put in is far as I can tell to increase the use of the venues and ensure every team gets to play at least a certain number of matches. Personally I think all such events should be single elimination tournaments with either 16 or 32 competitors to avoid byes (boxing I’m looking at you). The losers in the first round could go into their own B tournament if you really must give everyone more than one game. I’d also only allow one team per country. If your country has an awesome depth of talent well tough luck, best win your national selection if you want to go to the big show. As for the current situation, I think the administrators for once have done the right thing, and I hope they stick to their guns. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/48 "2012-08-01T23:27:53Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > They could solve this by giving the top-seeded team the opportunity to choose their own opponents from the available pool; you could ask the top seeds from each group to submit their choices, then randomly pick which one received their preferences; nobody would know for sure who had gotten their choices, which would eliminate some of the stigma from players publicly disrespecting each other. I don’t see how this works. Suppose there are two groups A and B for round robin. At the end of the round robin teams in each group are ranked by their play. Then the top two teams in each group have a single elimination. The standard method and the one used here is that #1 in A plays #2 in B and vice versa. But suppose that for some reason the #2 team in B is widely recognized to be better than the #1 team in B. This is when you’d try in group A to finish second rather than first. If you give the choice of opponent to the #1 team, then #1 in A will choose #1 in B as #2 in B is recognized as better. But #1 in B will choose #2 in A – the usual and logical choice. So you can’t give a choice to both #1’s ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/49 "2012-08-01T23:31:54Z")
> [@minlokwat](#): > > I equate what they did with something like … in baseball intentionally walking a top batter so as to face a player of lesser caliber. This is quite different. When walking the batter you are trying to win the game. They are similar only if you equate a game in baseball with the whole tournament for the medal. What it is similar to in baseball would be the losing team stalling in a game by purposely walking the opponents’ batters in hopes you’d get a rain-out before 5 innings could be played. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Mondegreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/91b2a8/32.png) [@Lord\_Mondegreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Mondegreen)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/50 "2012-08-01T23:34:02Z")
It’s not the first time this sort of farce has happened. Snopes has the story of a [soccer match](http://www.snopes.com/sports/soccer/barbados.asp) where silly tournament rules led to a game where both sides were trying to score own goals towards the end. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/51 "2012-08-02T00:34:38Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > I don’t see how this works. Suppose there are two groups A and B for round robin. At the end of the round robin teams in each group are ranked by their play. Then the top two teams in each group have a single elimination. The standard method and the one used here is that #1 in A plays #2 in B and vice versa. > > But suppose that for some reason the #2 team in B is widely recognized to be better than the #1 team in B. This is when you’d try in group A to finish second rather than first. > > If you give the choice of opponent to the #1 team, then #1 in A will choose #1 in B as #2 in B is recognized as better. But #1 in B will choose #2 in A – the usual and logical choice. So you can’t give a choice to both #1’s Right. You ask A1 and B1 which team they want to play. Then you flip a coin (or use some hideously tamper-proofed randomizing device of some sort), and if it comes up heads A1 gets their wish and if it comes up tails B1 gets their wish. Both teams in A will still want to win out in their group since they will then have (at least) a 50% chance of getting to play the weaker team. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/52 "2012-08-02T00:57:36Z")
> [@Tom\_Scud](#): > > Right. You ask A1 and B1 which team they want to play. Then you flip a coin (or use some hideously tamper-proofed randomizing device of some sort), and if it comes up heads A1 gets their wish and if it comes up tails B1 gets their wish. Both teams in A will still want to win out in their group since they will then have (at least) a 50% chance of getting to play the weaker team. I don’t see it as “at least” it’s exactly a 50% chance to play the weaker team. Which means it’s exactly a 59% chance for the second place team as well so they don’t care, which admittedly is better than what they’ve got. It might induce you to not try which is better than trying to lose. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Scud](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f08c70/32.png) [@Tom\_Scud](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Scud)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/53 "2012-08-02T01:48:33Z")
Indeed. And 95+% of the time, it’ll be A1 picks B2, B1 picks A2, everyone is happy. ---
**Author:** ![Folacin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/folacin/32/3195_2.png) [@Folacin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Folacin)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/54 "2012-08-02T02:10:29Z")
It really comes down to the Chinese need to learn how to tank without being so obvious about it. I read one commentator comparing it to NFL teams resting their starters for the last game or games once they’ve clinched home-field. Not exactly analogous, but it bears some similarity. ---
**Author:** ![antonio107](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7ea924/32.png) [@antonio107](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antonio107)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/55 "2012-08-02T02:49:04Z")
A bunch of the Canadian team in olympic badminton come from my club, where I first heard about this story this morning, as a matter of fact. I hate it so fucking much. I love badminton and squash oodles more than tennis, but admit they have a hard time being TV friendly. And then this crap happens. No, I don’t put all the blame on the event. Some maybe, but these people should have some goddamn respect and at least play the game. No surprise that two of the PRC Pairs were caught. It’s reminiscent of the Soviet Union padding their ‘draw’ numbers in round robin chess play. It may be permissible in the rules, but if you wanna play lawyerball, then someone needs to point their finger and call you a no-good commie cheater! :mad: But they got the DQ, so I’d say that’s just desserts. I’m not losing sleep over it! ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/56 "2012-08-02T04:23:59Z")
It sounds like the players broke the rules but the opprobrium that sports officials are heaping upon them is disgusting. The sports officials set the rules, what did they expect the players to do in this situation: - play hard based on some selfless noble sportsmanship ideal - which no one would thank them for, and which other less noble teams would take advantage of - and thereby worsen their chances of a medal ? Give me a break. - lose more subtlely? Great, so we are rewarding those who deceive and punishing those that are open about their actions are we? The only correct action would have been for the organisers to apologise to the public for stuffing up the organisation of the tournament and apologise to the players for putting them in an impossible situation. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/57 "2012-08-02T04:46:59Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I read one commentator comparing it to NFL teams resting their starters for the last game or games once they’ve clinched home-field. Not exactly analogous, but it bears some similarity. Not much. The players on the field in those games are assuredly _trying_ to win. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/58 "2012-08-02T07:00:06Z")
> [@Princhester](#): > > It sounds like the players broke the rules but the opprobrium that sports officials are heaping upon them is disgusting. > > The sports officials set the rules, what did they expect the players to do in this situation: > > - play hard based on some selfless noble sportsmanship ideal - which no one would thank them for, and which other less noble teams would take advantage of - and thereby worsen their chances of a medal ? Give me a break. > > - lose more subtlely? Great, so we are rewarding those who deceive and punishing those that are open about their actions are we? > > The only correct action would have been for the organisers to apologise to the public for stuffing up the organisation of the tournament and apologise to the players for putting them in an impossible situation. I agree that the tournament organisers are at fault, but I disagree that the players shouldn’t be blamed. Have you seen the [video](http://www.businessinsider.com/badminton-teams-disqualified-olympics-video-2012-8)? Both sides are taking the piss. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/59 "2012-08-02T07:47:09Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > I agree that the tournament organisers are at fault, but I disagree that the players shouldn’t be blamed. Have you seen the [video](http://www.businessinsider.com/badminton-teams-disqualified-olympics-video-2012-8)? Both sides are taking the piss. I don’t understand this. Tell me exactly what you think they should have done and why they should have done it. As far as I can see their only options were to (a) do what they did, or (b) take one of the options set out in my email above. You clearly think (a) is out, so tell me why one of the other options is better. Explain to me why four athletes who have trained their guts out for years to reach the pinnacle in the Olympics should play in a way that hurts their own prospects, or explain to me why it would have been better for them to be sneakier about what they did. Frankly, any sport official who sets up something so that (i) the object is to win the tournament (ii) to have your best prospects of winning the tournament you must lose a match (iii) it’s illegal to deliberately lose a match; deserves a smack upside the head and to be required to give a grovelling apology to the athletes. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2012, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062/60 "2012-08-02T07:57:09Z")
OK, in my “post” above, not “email”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/badminton-players-dq-from-olympics-for-throwing-matches/630062.md?page=4)