# Bailed-out Wells Fargo plans Las Vegas junket **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320 "2009-02-03T22:32:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/41 "2009-02-05T06:24:30Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Top sales guys really are that good. The top 10% is amazing. The next 30% or so gets there by just working their ass off. > > Again - I am assuming that this is sales club - where you get to go when you hit certain milestones (top 10% of the reps, top 5% gets a suite, top 1% comes earlier for other goodies plus tee time with the CEO). > > Yeah - it looks bad. However, it is also part of the reps compensation for prior year performance. Cancel it and you MIGHT have problems (depending on the employment and compensation contract). I don’t know if I would be looking forward to tee time with the CEO after selling a boatload of bad mortgages. Looking at the guy holding a driver and hearing “So Ted, tell me more about that opportunity to scoop up all those morgages for a song” ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/42 "2009-02-05T07:10:17Z")
Right, except Wells wasn’t selling bad mortgages. They were actually fairly conservative and strict about their lending policies and are one of the few banks that is actually helping to keep our economy afloat right now. Also, assuming that every bank is evil doesn’t help the situation for anyone. Not every bank was heavy into sub-prime lending and in this case it really is a few bad apples bringing down the whole industry. For example, I mentioned upthread that the only reason that Wells is in any trouble is because of the Wacovia purchase. Well, Wacovia was also a fairly conservative lender and was taken down when they tried to absorb Golden West bank in order to expand out of their regional market and move on to a wider national stage. They were the fourth largest bank in the country at the time. Golden West’s mortgages were bad though. Very bad. So bad that they took down Wacovia, the fourth largest bank in the nation after Wacovia bought them. So Wacovia couldn’t survive and were one of the “too big to fail” banks, so Wells Fargo, the only AAA rated bank in the country purchased them. Wells was even more conservative than Wacovia and more financially sound and Well reported losses in the 4th quarter due entirely to the purchase of Wacovia. This is now two banks sharing the burden of one bank that fucked up really really badly, and struggling to pull up from that debt. But neither Wells nor Wacovia are at fault for the bad debt they now hold, it was almost entirely inherited from Golden West. The same way that Bank of America isn’t responsible for the bad debt that they inherited when they purchased Countrywide after that bank started to go under. You want to see a villain, look at Countrywide. Their lending practices were shameful and they have just about brought Bank of America to it’s knees. My point is, not all banks are created equal in this situation, and judging them all as equally criminal is going to do nothing but further undermine the foundation of our economy. The last thing we need is for people to decide that banks are untrustworthy and to start hiding money in their mattresses. ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/43 "2009-02-05T07:41:19Z")
> [@Algher](#): > > Yeah - it looks bad. However, it is also part of the reps compensation for prior year performance. Cancel it and you MIGHT have problems (depending on the employment and compensation contract). I understand that, but you’d think sales people would understand public relations, and right now these guys have the worst PR on the planet? Yes, they did what they were hired to do, but what they were hired to do was a bad, bad thing and what they were hired to do has put thousands of families out of their homes. I mean, if you’re hired to build a fire in the living room because it looks nice, and then burn down the damn house because there’s no fireplace, should you be rewarded for that? ---
**Author:** ![Sunrazor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sunrazor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunrazor)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 7:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/44 "2009-02-05T07:47:42Z")
Too late to edit, too stupid to read the last post first: I’ll concede NAF1138’s point, but even if it was your cousin who started the fire, don’t ya’ think it’s best to not take any extravagant vacations while the house is still burning? I know, I’m pushing the metaphor too far here, but come on – something that needs to be explained with paragraph after paragraph of data-laden defense really needs to be re-thought on the front end. Look, my mortgage is with Wells Fargo, and the local guys have been nothing but good to us. But I think if I found out any of 'em were going to Vegas on the company’s dollar when I can barely afford to drive to work these days, well, let’s just say it’d strain our relationship a little. ---
**Author:** ![JustThinkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@JustThinkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JustThinkin)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/45 "2009-02-05T13:54:37Z")
Here’s what Wells had to say about the story: > [@](#): > > Today’s Associated Press story about Wells Fargo’s recognition events is intentionally misleading. The event is not a “junket” for executives but a four-day business meeting and recognition event for hard-working team members who made homeownership achievable and sustainable for borrowers across the nation. In 2008 alone, the team members who were invited to this event and their colleagues produced $230 billion in mortgage loans for U.S. homeowners. > > Through all economic cycles, our recognition events have been an important part of our company’s culture. Late last year, we cancelled recognition events for 2009 except those where the financial commitment was so great that no meaningful savings would occur by cancelling these events. We had scaled back the mortgage event, but in light of the current environment, we have now decided to cancel this event as well. We do not plan to have any other recognition events this year. > > The Associated Press story also misleads readers by implying Wells Fargo used the government’s investment to pay for these events. As we’ve said before, we’ve used the government’s investment to lend to creditworthy customers and to help homeowners avoid foreclosure. > > Since credit began contracting 18 months ago, Wells Fargo has made almost half a trillion dollars in new loan commitments and mortgage originations. Last quarter alone, we made $22 billion in loan commitments and $50 billion in mortgage originations. That’s more than $70 billion or almost three times the amount of the U.S. Treasury’s investment in Wells Fargo—which has begun to benefit from our performance through the dividend we will pay to the Treasury this quarter. Disclaimer: I’m a Wells employee, but I don’t deal directly with any of the money stuff. (I write procedures.) I’m as sceptical of corporate bullshit as the next person. But I’ve see little reason to beat up Wells during all this financial uproar. As big corporations go, this one ain’t so bad. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Woodhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/838e76/32.png) [@Miss\_Woodhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Woodhouse)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/46 "2009-02-05T23:46:16Z")
Well, Wells Fargo Bank doesn’t write sub prime mortgages . . . Because Wells Fargo _Financial_ writes all the sub primes for them. Wells Fargo also offers Pay Day loans (with astronomical interest rates) to customers who get direct deposit pay checks. They may be in good shape, and that’s great, but they don’t have pristine business practices either. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 6:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/47 "2009-02-06T06:57:16Z")
They broke the first rule of Sales Club. You don’t talk about Sales Club. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/48 "2009-02-06T13:04:45Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > From the MSNBC story (bolding mine): > > > [@](#): > > > > “In light of the current environment, we have now decided to cancel this event as well,” the company said Tuesday night in a news release that **also said the it had never planned to use taxpayer bailout money for the trip**. > > Ummm… ok? > > I mean, hell, if you have the money in your own pockets to spend on this, you sure as hell don’t need our $25 billion, right? I’m trying to figure out how the bolded portion was supposed to make me feel better. This reminds me of the Maryland Savings & Loan crisis. Jeffrey and Karol Levitt (known picturesquely as “the Couple that Ate Maryland”) stole 15 million from Old Court Savings & Loan, and, as I remember it, successfully argued in court that they had spent the money they stole, and not spent the money they had inherited, as if they were two separate piles of money. The stolen money was spent and unrecoverable, and the inherited money wasn’t stolen, so why should they have to pay it back? “_You’re_ money’s gone, I spent it, but I still have _my_ original money.” Mr. Levitt served time in prison, but they were allowed to keep millions and did not have to pay restitution. It was a decision I never understood. Aren’t all of someone’s assets, especially cash, considered when seeking damages/restitution? Here’s a colorful article on the surprisingly vulgar case (although only touching lightly upon the “allowed to keep a pile of money despite having stolen a bigger pile of money” issue): [The Couple that Ate Maryland](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/27/AR2006112700867.html) ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/49 "2009-02-06T14:59:09Z")
Meanwhile, as all of this is being hashed out, Democratic lawmakers are taking a chartered train to a resort and spa in Williamsburg for their annual retreat. The rooms, the train, and the catered meals are all being paid for by taxpayers - who are also footing the bill for President Obama’s travel expenses there. [Link.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jqg70NkGved8X-3iGlb-fkGIhJ9wD965R0200) I’m not sure that the Republican retreat is much better - the rules are looser for lobbying it. But at least the Republican retreat doesn’t involve taxpayer funds directly. ---
**Author:** ![Furious\_Marmot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/dfb087/32.png) [@Furious\_Marmot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Furious_Marmot)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/50 "2009-02-06T15:25:39Z")
What is it with bullshit corporate parties and Jimmy Buffett? Is there some SEC rule? ‘When approximating a Roman orgy, Jimmy must play.’ Didn’t the jackass from Tyco have him play at that party in Sardinia about 5 years ago? If the universe turns itslef inside out and through some 80’s movie hijinks I become a corporate asshat, I am going to exhume Cobain, Hendrix, and Jerry Garcia, prop up their bones on stage and hire a cover band to play their music from behind a curtain. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [February 6, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320/51 "2009-02-06T16:07:58Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Meanwhile, as all of this is being hashed out, Democratic lawmakers are taking a chartered train to a resort and spa in Williamsburg for their annual retreat. The rooms, the train, and the catered meals are all being paid for by taxpayers - who are also footing the bill for President Obama’s travel expenses there. > > [Link.](http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jqg70NkGved8X-3iGlb-fkGIhJ9wD965R0200) > > I’m not sure that the Republican retreat is much better - the rules are looser for lobbying it. But at least the Republican retreat doesn’t involve taxpayer funds directly. Clearly you don’t undersand. Planes are fuel wasters that destroy the ozone layer. Trains are efficient engines that are under-utilized. Makes no differentce what you do after your arrival, it’s all about the journey. And you can put the savings into hookers and blow! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailed-out-wells-fargo-plans-las-vegas-junket/484320.md?page=2)