# Bailout deal agreed to. McCain's"leadership" not required. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177 "2008-09-25T17:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/21 "2008-09-25T18:45:21Z")
[Bill Clinton’s response](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-do.html) to McCain is that he did it in good faith. He is in effect, acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, which is something McCain has tried to address for years. It’s disingenuous for the likes of Barney Frank to inject politics into this when it was his fuck up in the first place. All McCain did was ask for bipartisan support from Obama to get this taken care of. It was originally going to be put off until next session and the situation had ballooned to a point it needed to be addressed now. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/22 "2008-09-25T18:48:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I don’t know what you think your link is supposed to prove. The deal is done. If you don’t believe it, look at the Market. That tells you they think it’s done. Is it your contention that the market is never wrong? Besides, the article makes it clear that progress has been made, not that a deal is final. All it says is that Congressional leaders are in sync, not that the executive branch as agreed. And if you read the entire article, it says: “Major elements are still being worked out, including how to phase in the mammoth cost of the package and whether the government will get an ownership stake in troubled companies.” Major elements. > [@](#): > > In any case, McCain would still have no input on any negotiations or on writing anythimng. he’s not on any of the relevant committes and he’s not in any leadership. All he can do is vote. His economic opinions are not valued and have not been sought. Bush has sought his input. > [@](#): > > I did hear again that Chris Dodd says the Banking Committee used Obama’s plan as an outline. So McCain got out-maneuvered. Too bad, so sad. Now he has to go to Oxford MS and take his ass-kicking like a man. You mean a committee controlled by Democrats used Obama’s plan? That’s amazing! BTW, let’s wait to see the details of this plan, and how much of it came from Obama. I can’t believe how GD has turned into an Obama cheer leading forum… ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/23 "2008-09-25T18:51:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Bill Clinton’s response](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-do.html) to McCain is that he did it in good faith. He is in effect, acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, which is something McCain has tried to address for years. > > It’s disingenuous for the likes of Barney Frank to inject politics into this when it was his fuck up in the first place. All McCain did was ask for bipartisan support from Obama to get this taken care of. It was originally going to be put off until next session and the situation had ballooned to a point it needed to be addressed now. Stop me if I am mistaken, but didn’t Obama request a joint bipartisan statement be made before McCain wanted to suspend stuff? I may have read it wrong, so I’m asking. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/24 "2008-09-25T18:51:25Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Is it your contention that the market is never wrong? It’s my contention that the Market’s plugged in enough to the deal is real. > [@](#): > > Bush has sought his input. Bush has sought a photo-op to try to help a stalled campaign. > [@](#): > > You mean a committee controlled by Democrats used Obama’s plan? That’s amazing! BTW, let’s wait to see the details of this plan, and how much of it came from Obama. A plan which was agreed to by Republicans. Why are you so upset about this deal? Aren’t you glad something got worked out? ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/25 "2008-09-25T18:52:34Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > He probably thought everybody would stop and look to him for leadership. At least that’s how his monkeys probably envisioned it when they came up with this stunt. I don’t think he’s that dumb. I really think it was a desperate attempt to leverage the crisis to kill the VP debate. Palin’s numbers are already dropping fast, and they clearly don’t trust her out in public, and for good reason. When she crashes, it is going to make McCain’s lack of judgment on his most important decision after being nominated very clear. Hear anything about his suspending the suspension? Actually, Colbert got it perfect last night! ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/26 "2008-09-25T18:54:02Z")
While working out, the TV was on MSNBC, and I couldn’t believe the way they were spinning this - as tho all of Washington was helpless until John McCain promised to halt his campaign and come straighten them out. It is so sad to think that anyone thinks this is actually the way policy is made. And that all of the existing Congress and administration are SO woefully incompetent that they are incapable of getting ANYTHING done without the Lone Ranger (or is that Bret Maverick?) riding to the rescue. They kept talking about this being a crisis that required “bold action.” And this is McCain being McCain. Uh - sorry, but 6 years into this Iraq mess, I would welcome a little less “bold action” and a little more considered deliberation. Having lived with the hastily enacted Patriot Act for these past 7 years, I’m not in a tremendous rush to get a huge new body of laws rushed onto the books. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/27 "2008-09-25T18:54:19Z")
… Let’s also keep in mind that even if a deal has been reached, it wasn’t at all clear that it would be when McCain suggested he and Obama high tail it back to DC to work on this problem. I certainly wouldn’t have bet any money on a deal being reached this week. And for all of you who think the market is validating this deal being “done”, I guess the market was agreeing with McCain earlier this week. Right? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/28 "2008-09-25T18:55:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Bill Clinton’s response](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-do.html) to McCain is that he did it in good faith. He is in effect, acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, which is something McCain has tried to address for years. > > It’s disingenuous for the likes of Barney Frank to inject politics into this when it was his fuck up in the first place. All McCain did was ask for bipartisan support from Obama to get this taken care of. It was originally going to be put off until next session and the situation had ballooned to a point it needed to be addressed now. McCain had nothing to offer the process except his vote. He lacks economic expertise, he’s not on the relevant committees and he’s not in any leadership. He would have no role in either negotiating or drafting legislation. What does he need to be there for, and why should it prevent him from being able to show up at the debate and face his opponent like a man? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/29 "2008-09-25T18:57:48Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > … Let’s also keep in mind that even if a deal has been reached, it wasn’t at all clear that it would be when McCain suggested he and Obama high tail it back to DC to work on this problem. Yes it was. The leadership said negotiations were going fine and all McCain was going to do was infect the process with unwelcome, Presidential politics. And like I keep saying, McCain had nothing to offer the process but his vote anyway. What do you imagine he was going to personally do to facilitate a deal? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/30 "2008-09-25T19:06:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > McCain had nothing to offer the process except his vote. He lacks economic expertise, he’s not on the relevant committees and he’s not in any leadership. He would have no role in either negotiating or drafting legislation. What does he need to be there for, and why should it prevent him from being able to show up at the debate and face his opponent like a man? McCain was talking about the problems with Fanny Mae years ago. As Chairman of the House Financial Services Committee Barney Frank is responsible for this and has not been able to put together bi-partisan support for the necessary legislation. Having the 2 presidential candidates come together in a time of need to actually do their jobs is something I expect from both of them. ---
**Author:** ![Jolly\_Roger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/91b2a8/32.png) [@Jolly\_Roger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jolly_Roger)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/31 "2008-09-25T19:10:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes it was. The leadership said negotiations were going fine and all McCain was going to do was infect the process with unwelcome, Presidential politics. > > And like I keep saying, McCain had nothing to offer the process but his vote anyway. What do you imagine he was going to personally do to facilitate a deal? I know someone had asked for the word “sheeple” not to be used anymore, but sorry this fits. The McSheeple are screamin that what McCain did was honorable when in reality he did nothing but try to save his campaign. Is it so hard to imagine that he didn’tr do this as a stunt to save some flagging poll numbers? So really, no soundbites, no catchy phrases…tell me, what did McCain do? ---
**Author:** ![Pashnish\_Ewing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8797f3/32.png) [@Pashnish\_Ewing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pashnish_Ewing)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/32 "2008-09-25T19:19:12Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > [Bill Clinton’s response](http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/09/bill-clinton-do.html) to McCain is that he did it in good faith. He is in effect, acknowledging the seriousness of the situation, which is something McCain has tried to address for years. I wonder if Clinton would have had the same reaction had McCain skipped town last night, and no-showed at the Clinton Global Initiative Annual Meeting this morning? Which leads to the question, if the economic crisis was so dire, why didn’t he fly back last night after making his suspension announcement? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/33 "2008-09-25T19:21:01Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > All McCain did was ask for bipartisan support from Obama to get this taken care of. It was originally going to be put off until next session and the situation had ballooned to a point it needed to be addressed now. I’m sorry, **Macgiver** , but I’m a bit confused by this. It’s my understanding that Obama was in favor of offering bipartisan support to getting a deal done, and wanted to make a joint statement to that effect. It’s also my understanding that McCain didn’t simply “ask for bipartisan support from Obama to get this taken care of” as you say. I believe that McCain wanted both candidates to suspend their campaigns, delay the Friday debate, and immediately go to Washington in person to do something (I’m not clear on what Obama and McCain were going to specifically do) If I’m incorrect in any way, I’d greatly appreciate you letting me know what the true facts are (with cites, if possible please) ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/34 "2008-09-25T19:21:23Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > So really, no soundbites, no catchy phrases…tell me, what did McCain do? “He took bold action!” “That is McCain being McCain!” No, I’ve got no idea what he is supposed to have done, but this is the way they are selling it - at least for the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/35 "2008-09-25T19:23:08Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > “He took bold action!” > “That is McCain being McCain!” > > No, I’ve got no idea what he is supposed to have done, but this is the way they are selling it - at least for the moment. You forgot, “He put politics aside!” ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/36 "2008-09-25T19:28:16Z")
> [@Jolly\_Roger](#): > > So really, no soundbites, no catchy phrases…tell me, what did McCain do? His job. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/37 "2008-09-25T19:29:51Z")
Someone just came on saying the announcement of a done deal was premature. There are lots of people who aren’t on board. I saw one guy (no name, sorry) say that (five pages) of the major economists opinions are saying it’s a band-aid, at best. I hate this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/38 "2008-09-25T19:31:27Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > His job. This is absolutely right. His job is to run for president. He positioned himself using our current financial meltdown to achieve an advantage in his job. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/39 "2008-09-25T19:35:51Z")
> [@Maeglin](#): > > This is absolutely right. His job is to run for president. I agree with this. Right now, for both McCain and Obama I think it is more important that they get to be President for the next 4 years, than any impact they can have on any single issue as a senator. Just remembered another one: “He reached across the aisle!” 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/40 "2008-09-25T19:44:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes it was. The leadership said negotiations were going fine and all McCain was going to do was infect the process with unwelcome, Presidential politics. Yep. Harry Reid(D), Barnie Franke(D), and Chris Dodd(D) all didn’t want him to come back. They were too busy putting politics beside. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=3)