# Bailout deal agreed to. McCain's"leadership" not required. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177 "2008-09-25T17:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/61 "2008-09-25T21:49:40Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > In your example, imagine that the Sales department wants to negotiate a lower bill for the account in order to save it, while the Accounting department just wants it paid in full. Wouldn’t that be a perfect opportunity for you, interviewing for the CEO position, to help work it out so it benefits the company as a whole, and not just the Sales or Accounting departments? No, I believe that I would be perceived (rightly so) to be grandstanding. Especially if Sales and Accounting did not want me there. And also if I was walking around the building to a variety of departments before going to accounting, “being seen” to be doing something. And really, really so if I’d announced my plans over the intercom, and it was widely known that the other guy who wanted the CEO job had already called me in the morning to see if we could work together to solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/62 "2008-09-25T21:50:56Z")
But everybody is already highly motivated to do this anyway, and he’s not their boss. They’ve already indicated that they don’t want or need his assistance, espcially since it’s an issue that lies outside his area of expertise. It’s like you’ve spent a week hammering out a deal with a specialized committee, get right up next to closing, and then some guy with the same job title as you have, but without your knowledge of the issues involved in the deal and without any prior involvement rushes into the room and makes a big deal in front of the CEO about how he’s going to “help us all out of this mess,” and try to take credit for the deal you’ve already made, all just to brown nose for a big promotion in front of the boss. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/63 "2008-09-25T22:01:47Z")
McCain has also been all over the map on the bailout. How is he going to realistically argue for a bill he had no part in writing? I don’t know, but some of it might directly contradict his stated position. BTW, I’m sure the Administration signed off on this thing, so there is no chance Bush will veto it unless it somehow gets amended to death, which I doubt. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/64 "2008-09-25T22:03:11Z")
I just saw Pat Buchanan on MSNBC saying that McCain should intentionally try to ratfuck the deal and blow it up so he can then claim that he’s going to take over and craft a brand new, bipartsan McCain bill. Aside from the fact that McCain can’t block the deal on his on (it’s not like his one vote is going to be the difference), I think that would just end up pissing off his own party, not to mention the White House, still look transparently political to voters and completely alienate Democrats. No way in hell would the Dems go along with a scheme like that. Meanwhile, the economy would still be frozen and the stock market would tank again. No matter how much McCain and his thugs might hate the fact that they got outflanked on this, they have no choice but to go along with it. Before this election is over, they’re going to go full frontal with personal smears against Obama. It’s all they have left. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/65 "2008-09-25T22:10:21Z")
I think you need to change your thread title, **Diogenes**. From CNN’s web site right now: > [@](#): > > Economic bailout talks appear in disarray > > Just hours after key lawmakers said they had reached agreement on a set of principles regarding the proposed $700 billion economic bailout, a high-level meeting at the White House apparently illustrated otherwise. Sen. Richard Shelby, ranking Republican on the Senate Banking Comittee, emerged from the White House to declare of the bailout plan: “It will not solve problems, it will create more problems.” developing story ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/66 "2008-09-25T22:14:59Z")
This now smells very much like the Republican leadership recognizes that they HAVE to show that McCain has flown in and saved the day. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/67 "2008-09-25T22:15:58Z")
The deal is fine. Don’t get your hopes up. It’s just one whiny douchebag, ---
**Author:** ![xanthous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/53a042/32.png) [@xanthous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xanthous)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/68 "2008-09-25T22:16:32Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > ETA, I’m now hearing that the Senate Banking Committee decided to adopt Barack Obama’s proposal as the template for the deal. Snicker. Do you happen to have a cite to the Obama’s proposal-as-template news? I’d love to share this. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/69 "2008-09-25T22:17:37Z")
Yeah, they’ll probably try to contrive some problem for McCain to “solve.” Basically, they’ll push the baby into the water so McCain can jump in and save it. Still, that’s just theater. The deal is fine. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/70 "2008-09-25T22:24:34Z")
[The spin](http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2008/09/25/schieffer-paulson-warned-bailout-would-fail-unless-mccain-got-invo) is, if nothing else, creative. You take this quote: > [@](#): > > Paulson then called, according to my sources, Senator Lindsey Graham, who is very close to John McCain, and told him: you’ve got to get the people in the McCain campaign, you’ve got to convince John McCain to give these Republicans some political cover. If you don’t do that, this whole bailout plan is going to fail. So that’s how, McCain, apparently, became involved. And claim it shows that: > [@](#): > > Paulson Pleaded for McCain to Save Bailout and moreoveer that it somehow justifies the need to “suspend” campaigning and avoid debating in response to the request. Nah, coming out with the bipartisan joint statement as suggested by Obama hours earlier doesn’t give the cover they need. Only him coming in and overtly politicizing a situation could suffice. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/71 "2008-09-25T22:25:31Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > But everybody is already highly motivated to do this anyway, and he’s not their boss. They’ve already indicated that they don’t want or need his assistance, especially since it’s an issue that lies outside his area of expertise. Again, you are confusing the people doing the actual negotiation in committees, and the rest of Congress, who still get to cast a yay/nay vote on it. So even if he’s not involved in the specifics, he can rally support for it. Sure the party whips can do it, but the fact is, at this moment in time, Obama and McCain are the de facto leaders of their respective parties. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/72 "2008-09-25T22:31:16Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Again, you are confusing the people doing the actual negotiation in committees, and the rest of Congress, who still get to cast a yay/nay vote on it. If the Republicans actually want to see their guy elected, they’ll engineer some sort of ‘essential’ role for him in the process. We haven’t seen that yet, so the deal isn’t a done deal. Theatre is important here. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/73 "2008-09-25T22:39:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The deal is fine. Don’t get your hopes up. It’s just one whiny douchebag, You keep thinking, **Diogenes**. That’s what you’re good at. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/74 "2008-09-25T23:10:02Z")
Fucking McCain weasel fucked the whole deal. Fucking crybaby. It looks like I overestimated McCain’s integrity – a mistake I keep making. ---
**Author:** ![A\_shameful\_cracka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ebca7d/32.png) [@A\_shameful\_cracka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_shameful_cracka)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/75 "2008-09-25T23:27:42Z")
I thought they had enough Democrats on board for this that they didn’t NEED Republican support. This is bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/76 "2008-09-25T23:27:43Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fucking McCain weasel fucked the whole deal. Fucking crybaby. It looks like I overestimated McCain’s integrity – a mistake I keep making. Have you been watching the TV? It seems to be the House Republicans that have the major concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/77 "2008-09-25T23:30:28Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Have you been watching the TV? It seems to be the House Republicans that have the major concerns. Gee. What a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/78 "2008-09-25T23:34:55Z")
I guess they’re saying McCain didn’t even say anything at the meeting. The House Republicans basically sandbagged every body (including Bush) with a bunch of contrived objections. Obviously, they decided they couldn’t let a deal happen that McCain had nothing to do with. As they said, they’re pushing the baby into the pond so McCain can jump in and save it. The trouble is, McCain can’t fucking swim. ---
**Author:** ![Gangster\_Octopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a8b319/32.png) [@Gangster\_Octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gangster_Octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 25, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/79 "2008-09-25T23:35:59Z")
Country first…etc. ---
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/80 "2008-09-26T00:10:49Z")
I thought I posted this already. . . McCain is in a pickle. Save the day and piss off his ‘base’ that never really liked him or stay with his base and not save the day. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=5)