# Bailout deal agreed to. McCain's"leadership" not required. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177 "2008-09-25T17:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/121 "2008-09-26T14:13:07Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > And yet, Frank still blames him: > > Quote: > “He slowed down the process,” Frank said. “He is making it harder for us to get things done.” He was referring to having to grind everything to a halt and head up to Pennsylvania Avenue to have their pictures taken. He was also referring to the fact that the real work was hindered by the grandstanding and behomoth-like machinery that comes with two presidential campaigns swooping into town and being injected into the procedures. And yet it’s the Democrat’s fault that the Republican nominee decided to play Economist in a white hat? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/122 "2008-09-26T14:24:44Z")
> [@Jack\_Batty](#): > > He was referring to having to grind everything to a halt and head up to Pennsylvania Avenue to have their pictures taken. Cite? The press was only allowed in for the first few minutes, then they were escorted out. And, oh yeah, did McCain spend any time with the press? No. > [@](#): > > He was also referring to the fact that the real work was hindered by the grandstanding and behomoth-like machinery that comes with two presidential campaigns swooping into town and being injected into the procedures. Cite? What did they do? Stall Traffic? Busy up the bathrooms? I suppose you could say the press swarmed to DC with them, but like I said earlier, its the Dems who are getting all the face time with the cameras, not McCain. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/123 "2008-09-26T14:27:22Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > And yet, Frank still blames him: > I’m starting to think its the \*\*\*Democrats \*\*\*who are actually grand standing. First announcing a deal before one was even close, then announcing to the press at every second that it’s McCain’s fault, when he hasn’t actually even done anything yet. The deal WAS close. Everything was going fine until McCain showed up and the House Pugs got the word they needed to ratfuck the deal to protect McCain and try to save him from having to debate Obama tonight. They’re the ones who threw they’re shitty little, consumer-fucking “alternate plan” into the mix. Even Bush thinks the House Republicans are acting like jizz buckets. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/124 "2008-09-26T14:28:08Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > And yet, Frank still blames him: > I’m starting to think its the \*\*\*Democrats \*\*\*who are actually grand standing. First announcing a deal before one was even close, then announcing to the press at every second that it’s McCain’s fault, when he hasn’t actually even done anything yet. It’s not McCain’s fault, but it is very much his fault for thinking he could cancel a debate for something he is not fully or remotely responsible for. It looks bad for him because he siad he wanted to cancel the debate, it reflects very poorly on his [judgement](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/us/politics/26campaign.html?bl&ex=1222574400&en=cd491cbff8aac3b9&ei=5087%0A). ---
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/125 "2008-09-26T14:34:14Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > What did they do? Stall Traffic? Busy up the bathrooms? First off, you misspelled McCain. What McCain did was make this solution part of the presidential campaign. Whatever happens from here on out is going to be played by both parties in order to help their candidate. Obama had it exactly right, the candidates should have stayed the fuck out of it, unless specifically asked by the Senate to become involved. Granted, it was easier for Obama to take this tack because he’s not affiliated with the Administration that was in power when this whole thing blew up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/126 "2008-09-26T14:36:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > The deal WAS close. Everything was going fine until McCain showed up and the House Pugs got the word they needed to ratfuck the deal to protect McCain and try to save him from having to debate Obama tonight. They’re the ones who threw they’re shitty little, consumer-fucking “alternate plan” into the mix. Even Bush thinks the House Republicans are acting like jizz buckets. Bullshit. I quoted you an article early in the day that clearly stated House Republicans were not on board. BTW, here’s today’s headline: BAILOUT DEAL IMPLODES You might want to ask a mod to change your thread title. Either that, or stop seeing everything that happens thru your political filter. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/127 "2008-09-26T14:36:22Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Cite? The press was only allowed in for the first few minutes, then they were escorted out. > > And, oh yeah, did McCain spend any time with the press? No. > > Cite? What did they do? Stall Traffic? Busy up the bathrooms? McCain swooped into to save a deal that was already closed and forced his own party to have to ratfuck the deal to give him political coverage and prevent him from looking like a grandstanding fool (mission failed). > [@](#): > > I suppose you could say the press swarmed to DC with them, but like I said earlier, its the Dems who are getting all the face time with the cameras, not McCain. All I’ve seen is Republicans and McCain surrogates getting face time. The whole thing is also distracting attention away from the Rick Davis Fannygate scandal and from Sarah Palin’s debacle on Katie Couric. McCain’s little stunt is not stopping his freefall in the polls, though. He’s [5 points down in the Rasmussen](http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/daily_presidential_tracking_poll) this morning. That was tied yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![Phlosphr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c68b51/32.png) [@Phlosphr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Phlosphr)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/128 "2008-09-26T14:39:15Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > First off, you misspelled McCain. What McCain did was make this solution part of the presidential campaign. Whatever happens from here on out is going to be played by both parties in order to help their candidate. > > Obama had it exactly right, the candidates should have stayed the fuck out of it, unless specifically asked by the Senate to become involved. Granted, it was easier for Obama to take this tack because he’s not affiliated with the Administration that was in power when this whole thing blew up. Exactly, and either way you swing it, it does not look good for the McCain campaign in the eyes of the media, and the media are the eyes of the voting public. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/129 "2008-09-26T14:40:46Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Bullshit. I quoted you an article early in the day that clearly stated House Republicans were not on board. BTW, here’s today’s headline: > > BAILOUT DEAL IMPLODES > > You might want to ask a mod to change your thread title. Either that, or stop seeing everything that happens thru your political filter. My thread title is perfectly accurate. A deal was made without McCain’s help. That is a fact. Why should I change it? If you build a house and I blow it up with dynamite, that doesn’t mean you didn’t build a house. A deal was made, then ratfucked. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/130 "2008-09-26T14:55:56Z")
The deal’s implosion was caused by genuine concerns among the more fiscally conservative wing of the Republican party who have honest-to-goodness problems with the bailout. I think their concerns are completely legitimate, for what it’s worth. My partisan speculation is that they did not believe their rebellion would have any traction until McCain showed up. Much of the Republican base is extremely concerned about the perceived Marxism of this bailout, so I suspect they were emboldened to break away by McCain’s sudden appearance. He has been forced to take positions to please the base quite frequently in this campaign, so the rebellious Republicans probably believed he would be willing to go to bat for them again. This issue is much more complicated than, say, his VP choice, so it places him in a serious bind with not a lot of room to maneuver. Backing either the base or the bailout will have nontrivial political consequences. It is no great surprise that McCain was very quiet during the summit. The man is not an idiot, but he is in a very tight spot. I don’t blame McCain for intentionally throwing a wrench into the works, but his presence added another layer of strategic consideration that I do not believe existed before. To be honest, I am kind of relieved this occurred. Despite being a member of the Obamajadin, I also have grave concerns about how this bailout is structured and am sympathatic to the genuine conservatives in the Republican party who oppose the deal. I am both happy to see McCain squirm _and_ the bailout halted. ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/131 "2008-09-26T14:56:32Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > Originally Posted by Jack Batty > > He was referring to having to grind everything to a halt and head up to Pennsylvania Avenue to have their pictures taken. > > Cite? The press was only allowed in for the first few minutes, then they were escorted out. Cite as to what Barney Frank was referring to when he said, as you quoted him, “He slowed down the process.” [http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080925/pl\_nm/us\_financial\_bailout\_frank\_2](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080925/pl_nm/us_financial_bailout_frank_2) "‘All of sudden, now that we are on the verge of making a deal, John McCain here drops himself in to help us make a deal,’ Frank said. ‘I really worry about the politicalization.’ The Massachusetts Democrat noted that a meeting on Capitol Hill on Thursday will be interrupted for a ‘photo op’ at the White House with congressional Democrats and Republicans as well as Bush." > [@](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > He was also referring to the fact that the real work was hindered by the grandstanding and behomoth-like machinery that comes with two presidential campaigns swooping into town and being injected into the procedures. > > Cite? What did they do? Stall Traffic? Busy up the bathrooms? I suppose you could say the press swarmed to DC with them, but like I said earlier, its the Dems who are getting all the face time with the cameras, not McCain. Cite: Ibid. However, my cite is also common sense. Except that I suppose I can’t actually claim that is precisely what Frank meant… but it would be a good bet. Have you been watching TV? You know those two guy you see alot? The old white guy and the black dude? They’re running for President of the United States of America and they each come with a political machine that make the congress in general look like the Board of Directors at Larry’s Fried Bananas. You don’t think there’s any sort of big to-do when two presidential candidates roll into town? Nosiree – just biz as usual. ---
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/132 "2008-09-26T15:00:28Z")
Are you watching the live news conference? They just ripped McCain a new one… ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/133 "2008-09-26T15:06:09Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Cite? The press was only allowed in for the first few minutes, then they were escorted out. > > And, oh yeah, did McCain spend any time with the press? No. > > Cite? What did they do? Stall Traffic? Busy up the bathrooms? I suppose you could say the press swarmed to DC with them, but like I said earlier, its the Dems who are getting all the face time with the cameras, not McCain. I’ll walk you through this at “Palin” speed: 1. Republicans want their guy to be elected. 2. McCain cancels debate and struts down to Washington. 3. Republicans now are in a pickle. If they say yes to the bi-partisan plan they had underway before McCain decided to strut down like a peacock, McCain looks like a fool (well he already does, but he’ll look like such a fool that even hardcore Republicans will be able to see it). 4. Republicans now must drag their feet and change up the plan so that McCain is perceived as pivotal in the process. McCain is worthless. A morally bankrupt coward who’s willing to fuck America so he can get his grab at the brass ring. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/134 "2008-09-26T15:17:47Z")
McCain is supposed to be leading in foreign policy. This debate was about that. There is no way the financial crisis would not come up tonight. It would have watered down his self perceived advantage. He has to let this blow over a little before he comes out to the debates. It is logical from a strategy viewpoint. It is dishonest from the view that he needs to save the economic system. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/135 "2008-09-26T15:25:03Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’ll walk you through this at “Palin” speed: > 4. Republicans now must drag their feet and change up the plan so that McCain is perceived as pivotal in the process. Only if you completely ignore the fact that, as John Mace noted, the deal wasn’t actually done in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/136 "2008-09-26T15:27:31Z")
I don’t think it’s necessarily nefarious as that. I can easily see Republicans revolting against this bailout on their own. McCain certainly has a say in this, but he needs to come out publicly and support one of the plans. At this point, he is remaining silent, and what help he is giving to this process is unknown. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/137 "2008-09-26T15:38:18Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Only if you completely ignore the fact that, as John Mace noted, the deal wasn’t actually done in the first place. Only if you ignore the fact that the republicans working on it thought they had reached a basic agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/138 "2008-09-26T15:40:41Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Only if you completely ignore the fact that, as John Mace noted, the deal wasn’t actually done in the first place. Yes it was. The Senate Republicans had said it was. I’m aware that this morning’s tighty righty, revisionist history is to claim there never was a deal, but that’s a lie. There was. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/139 "2008-09-26T15:45:37Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Only if you ignore the fact that the republicans working on it thought they had reached a basic agreement. In the Senate, maybe. In House, no. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/140 "2008-09-26T15:49:29Z")
He gone: > [@](#): > > The McCain campaign is resuming all activities and the Senator will travel to the debate this afternoon. [http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/debate-is-on/](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/debate-is-on/) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=8)