# Bailout deal agreed to. McCain's"leadership" not required. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 25, 2008, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177 "2008-09-25T17:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Biggirl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biggirl/32/3294_2.png) [@Biggirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biggirl)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/141 "2008-09-26T15:54:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > He gone: > > [Debate Is On - The New York Times](http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/09/26/debate-is-on/) Well, his work was done. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/142 "2008-09-26T15:57:20Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > In the Senate, maybe. In House, no. Could you maybe give the rest of us a scorecard, so we know which Republican congressman to believe when he gets on national TV and declares that they have an agreement that will pass both the House and the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/143 "2008-09-26T16:03:24Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Could you maybe give the rest of us a scorecard, so we know which Republican congressman to believe when he gets on national TV and declares that they have an agreement that will pass both the House and the Senate? Sure. As soon as you cite a Republican doing that. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/144 "2008-09-26T16:04:36Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Sure. As soon as you cite a Republican doing that. Why don’t you just give us a name up front that’s credible. Are there any you WON’T believe? ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/145 "2008-09-26T16:09:14Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Why don’t you just give us a name up front that’s credible. Are there any you WON’T believe? WTF? You want me to give you a name for a Strawman? No thanks. Again, cite the Republican that announced there was an acceptable deal for both the Senate and House. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/146 "2008-09-26T16:18:52Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > WTF? You want me to give you a name for a Strawman? No thanks. > > Again, cite the Republican that announced there was an acceptable deal for both the Senate and House. Also, from the original AP article: [http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioHc80xKMiATnqCpK0cDKJzk\_nPQD93DU0FG0](http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5ioHc80xKMiATnqCpK0cDKJzk_nPQD93DU0FG0) > [@](#): > > Not everyone in the closed-door talks was as optimistic.\*\* Rep. Spencer Bachus of Alabama, the only House Republican in the bargaining meeting, stopped short of saying he agreed with the other lawmakers on an imminent deal.\*\* ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/147 "2008-09-26T16:26:11Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > WTF? You want me to give you a name for a Strawman? No thanks. > > Again, cite the Republican that announced there was an acceptable deal for both the Senate and House. Robert Bennett. Pay attention, would you? ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/148 "2008-09-26T16:30:49Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Sure. As soon as you cite a Republican doing that. Sure. I watched the news yesterday. [Senator Bob Bennett (R-Utah) told reporters, after emerging from a two-hour negotiating session, “I now expect that we will indeed have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate, be signed by the President, and bring a sense of certainty to this crisis that is still roiling in the markets.” Added Bennett, “That is our primary responsibility, and I think we are now prepared to meet it.”](http://www.buzzle.com/articles/lawmakers-say-deal-on-bailout-reached.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/149 "2008-09-26T16:33:27Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > Could you maybe give the rest of us a scorecard, so we know which Republican congressman to believe when he gets on national TV and declares that they have an agreement that will pass both the House and the Senate? If you need a scorecard, that should tell you there isn’t an agreement. Hell, I’m not seeing much agreement among economists on this monstrosity of a bailout plan. Now, McCain is certainly handling his side of this in a bumbling manner, but I’ve not seen evidence that the House Republicans, as a caucus, were comfortable with this deal. Some may have been, but others not. And the “not” side turned out winning the argument, at least for the time being. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/150 "2008-09-26T16:36:14Z")
The need for a scorecard is that we have Republicans saying that they _have_ reached an agreement, and Republicans saying that they _haven’t_. And a Republican candidate for president not really saying much at all. If we’re no longer dealing with one Republican party, it would be nice to know if I need a “R-House” or “R-Senate” or somesuch after someone’s name to know what talking points they are spinning from. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/151 "2008-09-26T16:37:52Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > “I now expect that we will indeed have a plan that can pass the House, pass the Senate, be signed by the President, and bring a sense of certainty to this crisis that is still roiling in the markets.” There is a huge difference between “I expect that we will indeed have a plan’ and 'We have a plan”. For example, most people on this board expect Obama to win the Presidency. Does that mean that its a done deal? No. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/152 "2008-09-26T16:39:46Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > If we’re no longer dealing with one Republican party, it would be nice to know if I need a “R-House” or “R-Senate” or somesuch after someone’s name to know what talking points they are spinning from. Here’s a quick guide. If they have R-Senate or D-Whatever, they don’t speak for the R-House. I’ll leave the rest for you to extrapolate. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/153 "2008-09-26T16:41:10Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > There is a huge difference between “I expect that we will indeed have a plan’ and 'We have a plan”. > > For example, most people on this board expect Obama to win the Presidency. Does that mean that its a done deal? No. I said that a Republican had announced “that they have an agreement that will pass both the House and the Senate”. There is a huge difference between what I said and what you, here, are attempting to imply that I said. So you _can’t_ give us a scorecard of which Republican to believe, then. edit: Ah, yes. Two Republican parties, then. Well, three if we count the White House lame ducks. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/154 "2008-09-26T16:41:15Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > The need for a scorecard is that we have Republicans saying that they _have_ reached an agreement, and Republicans saying that they _haven’t_. And a Republican candidate for president not really saying much at all. Besides, during the heat of negotiations, you shouldn’t rush to judgement on what any one Congresscritter says, as our OP has done. Boehner is the guy who has to pull them together in the end, and that’s what he did. To bad for you if he didn’t do it on your timeframe. Don’t vote for him in Nov. > > If we’re no longer dealing with one Republican party, it would be nice to know if I need a “R-House” or “R-Senate” or somesuch after someone’s name to know what talking points they are spinning from. Whoever said that either party always had to speak with one mind at all times? What was the Democratic Party’s position on the Iraq AUMF? The Senate was virtually split down the middle. Oh, and if you want a non-political reason for why lawmakers aren’t too keen on this bailout: > [@](#): > > [AP poll: Few support Bush’s market rescue plan](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080926/ap_on_el_pr/ap_poll_financial_meltdown) > > WASHINGTON - There is scant public support for President Bush’s $700 billion federal rescue plan for the financial industry and little expectation it would solve the crisis that has roiled the markets and hobbled some of the country’s largest investment firms, according to a poll released Friday. > > Just 30 percent say they support Bush’s package, according to an Associated Press-Knowledge Networks poll released as White House and congressional leaders struggled to rescue the plan after House Republicans rebelled against it. Despite the president’s pleas that the package is urgently needed to prevent an economic meltdown, 45 percent say they oppose Bush’s proposal while 25 percent said they are undecided. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/155 "2008-09-26T16:43:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > If you need a scorecard, that should tell you there isn’t an agreement. Hell, I’m not seeing much agreement among economists on this monstrosity of a bailout plan. Do yiou understand the reason for that question. We were told yesterday by BOTH Democratic and Republican Senators that a deal had been reached. If Bennett was lying, it’s only fair to ask which Republicans we’re allowed to believe. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/156 "2008-09-26T16:45:45Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Whoever said that either party always had to speak with one mind at all times? What was the Democratic Party’s position on the Iraq AUMF? The Senate was virtually split down the middle. > > Oh, and if you want a non-political reason for why lawmakers aren’t too keen on this bailout: Since Paulson’s plan has been dead since thursday, and was not under discussion yesterday, this poll has no relevance. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/157 "2008-09-26T16:46:15Z")
> [@Lightray](#): > > I said that a Republican had announced “that they have an agreement that will pass both the House and the Senate”. There is a huge difference between what I said and what you, here, are attempting to imply that I said. Bennet did not say that. He said that he **expected** that they would have an agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/158 "2008-09-26T16:46:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Whoever said that either party always had to speak with one mind at all times? What was the Democratic Party’s position on the Iraq AUMF? The Senate was virtually split down the middle. > > Oh, and if you want a non-political reason for why lawmakers aren’t too keen on this bailout: Well, I guess that _you_ said that, since I made no such claim. It is a bit confusing when you have Republicans negotiating on behalf of the Republican party with Democrats on behalf of their party, who come out and announce they have something that will satisfy both the House and the Senate… and then get sandbagged by their own Republican collegues in the House. I’m rather keen on knowing which politician I can trust to know what the hell he is talking about for his party. But then, I’m odd that way, I guess. And thanks, but no I don’t need non-political reasons for why lawmakers aren’t keen on the bailout. The whole damn country has a myriad of reasons why they aren’t keen on the bailout. ---
**Author:** ![Lightray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightray/32/391_2.png) [@Lightray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/159 "2008-09-26T16:47:55Z")
> [@Sinaijon](#): > > Bennet did not say that. He said that he **expected** that they would have an agreement. Well, my goodness. That nitpick completely proves your point. ---
**Author:** ![Sinaijon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@Sinaijon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sinaijon)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2008, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177/160 "2008-09-26T16:47:55Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If Bennett was lying, it’s only fair to ask which Republicans we’re allowed to believe. He wasn’t lying. His expectations were incorrect. Just like all the people who expected the Patriots to beat the Dolphins last weekend. Doesn’t mean they all lied when then picked the Patriots in their NFL pools. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bailout-deal-agreed-to-mccains-leadership-not-required/465177.md?page=9)