# Bait bikes and cars: a great idea or entrapment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 11, 2011, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502 "2011-05-11T11:05:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/21 "2011-05-11T15:01:04Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > I agree. That’s the sort of thing people might pick up to take to a lost and found or police station. I could even see someone rifling through it to try to find an ID or contact information for its owner. Though the GPS part makes this point arguable. You could let the “thief/helpful citizen” take the backpack home, and if he does anything that could be interpreted in his favor (called the number in the wallet, called the police, etc.) then he gets a departmental good citizen commendation, and if not, he can tell it to a jury. ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/22 "2011-05-11T15:04:46Z")
> [@Lightnin](#): > > Agreed as well- I don’t think the two situations are comparable. > > If I see a backpack lying on the ground with nobody nearby, I’m going to pick it up to see who it belongs to- if there’s no ID in it, how am I going to find the owner short of putting up signs and hoping someone sees them? Any effort I put into getting the bag back to someone could, in this situation, lead to me getting arrested for “theft”. > > If I see a car or a bike sitting around, even unlocked, I’m not going to assume that someone lost it. > > I think the ACLU was right in objecting to the APD’s actions. But, I wonder when the APD decided when the suspect had stolen it? When they picked it up? When they walked away with it? When they brought it into their house? When they had it for 24/48/72 hours without reporting it or trying to contact the owner? When they fenced the items or used them as their own? I don’t think we have the whole story on this, but I didn’t watch the video. It seems to me for the APD to do this properly, they should have included a “If found, please call this number” thing inside the back pack to at least give a good Samaritan a fighting chance at not seeing the inside of a courtroom. But still, that seems to be testing morals more then anything. The whole backpack thing doesn’t seem like a police sting so much as something you’d see on a slow news day. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/23 "2011-05-11T15:09:12Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Though the GPS part makes this point arguable. You could let the “thief/helpful citizen” take the backpack home, and if he does anything that could be interpreted in his favor (called the number in the wallet, called the police, etc.) then he gets a departmental good citizen commendation, and if not, he can tell it to a jury. Forgot to add: Either way, I’d start feeling a little more comfortable leaving my backpack on the ground for a few minutes without watching it closely. It’s a quality-of-life thing. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/24 "2011-05-11T15:26:49Z")
There’s no excuse for the theft. The ACLU can pound salt, they have no case. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/25 "2011-05-11T15:30:13Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > There’s no excuse for the theft. The ACLU can pound salt, they have no case. Did you read the thread? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/26 "2011-05-11T15:42:50Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > Did you read the thread? I read it. And I think baiting the criminals is an excellent idea. You both find out who they thieves are and substitute one real loss of a car or bike with a fake one, saving an innocent person a lot of hassle, angst, loss of goods, and a lot of pain in the assness. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/27 "2011-05-11T15:43:59Z")
This American Life [did a story](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/394/bait-and-switch) a while back about someone who got busted because he tried to move a bait car that had been sitting in his neighborhood for several days or weeks. I believe he had called the police about it, and they of course didn’t tell him it was a bait car. So he took it upon himself to get it out of the way, at which point his legal problems began. Can’t say I support the actions of the police in that case. ---
**Author:** ![Simplicio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c37758/32.png) [@Simplicio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Simplicio)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/28 "2011-05-11T15:47:14Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Though the GPS part makes this point arguable. You could let the “thief/helpful citizen” take the backpack home, and if he does anything that could be interpreted in his favor (called the number in the wallet, called the police, etc.) then he gets a departmental good citizen commendation, and if not, he can tell it to a jury. I don’t think the backpack had a GPS, or at least I didn’t see it mentioned in the article. The whole sceme seems silly, which I imagine is why they dropped it. Even if your really stealing the backpack, the good samaratin defense seems too easy to make for anyone to actually be convicted. And what crime are they exactly fighting, its hard to imagine that there are criminals out there that rely on stealing stuff other people loose. Its way to situational, and I imagine 9 out of 10 lost backpacks contain old gym clothes and some textbooks, so I doubt its very lucrative either, even if you manage to find a lost back-pack. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/29 "2011-05-11T15:48:02Z")
Long as they told him “We’ll look into that for you, sir,” he had no business moving it, espeically if there are no parking regulations against keeping a car parked in that location for the specified time. ETA: responding to **Mach Tuck** ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/30 "2011-05-11T15:51:36Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > This American Life [did a story](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/394/bait-and-switch) a while back about someone who got busted because he tried to move a bait car that had been sitting in his neighborhood for several days or weeks. > > I believe he had called the police about it, and they of course didn’t tell him it was a bait car. So he took it upon himself to get it out of the way, at which point his legal problems began. Can’t say I support the actions of the police in that case. If it was on a public street and not blocking driveways or such, he had no business touching it. ---
**Author:** ![brainstall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@brainstall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brainstall)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/31 "2011-05-11T15:54:23Z")
If the lost backpack is in Toronto, someone will call the bomb squad. > **[NEWSTALK 1010 | Toronto's news, traffic & weather - iHeartRadio](https://www.iheartradio.ca/newstalk-1010)** > > Listen to live radio! NEWSTALK 1010 is Toronto's source for breaking news, traffic and weather. Our website also provides radio show podcasts, contests, local events and concerts. Newstalk 1010 (CFRB-AM) is an iHeartRadio station. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/32 "2011-05-11T15:55:52Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I read it. Did you read the part where not only do the ACLU have no case, they have no problem with the OP, and the case they did have a problem with is materially different? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/33 "2011-05-11T16:01:10Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > This American Life [did a story](http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/394/bait-and-switch) a while back about someone who got busted because he tried to move a bait car that had been sitting in his neighborhood for several days or weeks. > > I believe he had called the police about it, and they of course didn’t tell him it was a bait car. So he took it upon himself to get it out of the way, at which point his legal problems began. Can’t say I support the actions of the police in that case. Let’s put it this way: you park your car on the street in front of my house, a perfectly legal parking spot where there are no regulations whatsoever. That day you break your leg, are hospitalized for over a week, and in the back of your mind you think, "All the shit going on in my life, I’m glad my car’s okay where I parked for a few days. "Meanwhile, I’m pissed about you taking up “my” parking space, so I call the cops, they file my report but do nothing about it, so I take it upon myself to jumpstart your car and move it a few blocks away. You come back on crutches and the car is gone. Who are pissed at? The police, or the guy who jumpstarted your car? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/34 "2011-05-11T16:04:08Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Long as they told him “We’ll look into that for you, sir,” he had no business moving it, espeically if there are no parking regulations against keeping a car parked in that location for the specified time. > > ETA: responding to **Mach Tuck** It’s an interesting story. He didn’t move the car or try to move it. The car had keys in the ignition, “stripper clothes” clearly visible, and rope inside, and it was there for multiple days. The guy and his girlfriend started freaking themselves out about what was going on, imagining some young woman who had been kidnapped from it, or murdered and locked in the trunk, or something. So the guy put on black gloves (saying in his defense that if there had been a crime committed he didn’t want to put his fingerprints all over the car), opened it up, looked through the glove box and console for insurance papers or something else that could identify the car’s owner so they could try to track the owner down. When he didn’t find anything, he took the keys from the ignition and tried to get into the trunk to see if he could find anything. When the keys wouldn’t open the trunk, he tried to open it with a screwdriver. When that didn’t work, he went back into the cabin of the car–and that’s when the cops arrested him. His actions were probably very foolish, but he was trying to be a good samaritan throughout. Give the story a listen! ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/35 "2011-05-11T16:08:12Z")
Doing detective work without a license is always ill-advised. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/36 "2011-05-11T16:10:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Did you read the part where not only do the ACLU have no case, they have no problem with the OP, and the case they did have a problem with is materially different? Of course not. He saw “ACLU” at some point in the thread and immediately went into attack mode. You don’t think he’s got time to actually \*read \*these things, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/37 "2011-05-11T16:14:34Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Doing detective work without a license is always ill-advised. Ill-advised, yes. Worth prosecuting? I’m not so sure. I’ve broken into people’s cars before to turn off headlights that they left on. I’d be happy for someone to do that for me. If overzealous police discourage that sort of neighborliness, that’s not a good thing. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/38 "2011-05-11T16:17:30Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > But, I wonder when the APD decided when the suspect had stolen it? When they picked it up? When they walked away with it? When they brought it into their house? When they had it for 24/48/72 hours without reporting it or trying to contact the owner? When they fenced the items or used them as their own? > I don’t think we have the whole story on this, but I didn’t watch the video. > > It seems to me for the APD to do this properly, they should have included a “If found, please call this number” thing inside the back pack to at least give a good Samaritan a fighting chance at not seeing the inside of a courtroom. > But still, that seems to be testing morals more then anything. The whole backpack thing doesn’t seem like a police sting so much as something you’d see on a slow news day. Apparently the APD will arrest you just for picking up the backpack and taking it without waiting to see what you do with it (maybe you were going to go find a police officer to turn it in…the police cannot know without waiting to see). > [@](#): > > ALBUQUERQUE (CN) - A good Samaritan claims Albuquerque police filed a bogus felony charge against him in a harebrained sting they set up by planting a backpack with beer, cigarettes and a computer outside a high school. He says he picked up the backpack so children wouldn’t drink the beer or smoke the cigarettes - for which he was charged with felony larceny. > > \ > > “On inspection the backpack contained beer and cigarettes,” Sanchez says. “The backpack had been left across the street and in plain view of a charter high school. Plaintiff was worried the children from the high school would find the backpack and make use of the beer and cigarettes.” > > SOURCE: [http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/05/09/36414.htm](http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/05/09/36414.htm) ETA: IANAL but can they show _mens rea_ without waiting to see what the person does with the backpack? A car or bike left on the street unlocked is not unusual…that is where you park those things. A backpack is not usual and one filled with beer and cigarettes next to a school it would be reasonable for someone to want to remove it so kids do not find it (I’d think). ---
**Author:** ![Gedd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gedd/32/4938_2.png) [@Gedd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gedd)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/39 "2011-05-11T16:18:50Z")
I’ve watch the show _Bait Car_ on TV a few times and it’s pretty entertaining. Some of the people try explaining “my friend asked me to pick up his car for him!” (your friend the police officer?) or “I was just moving it out of the street” (and four blocks away while saying ‘sweet, we can get a bunch of money for this thing!’). When one guy accused the cops of entrapment they simply asked him “Who made you steal it? Not us.” ---
**Author:** ![Submerged](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/da6949/32.png) [@Submerged](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Submerged)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502/40 "2011-05-11T16:20:39Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > If it was on a public street and not blocking driveways or such, he had no business touching it. I heard that one. What happened was, the car was left in the middle of the night, with keys in it and some stuff in that indicated it was a woman’s car, and that it was abandoned suddenly. A young couple in the neighborhood were worried that the woman had been abducted, and called the police. Cops acted like they didn’t care. Couple became worried and upset that cops were ignoring a suspected abduction in their neighborhood. They kept calling cops, cops kept blowing them off. Finally, the couple took the keys out of the ignition and used them to open the truck, worried that the victim might be in there. WHAM, they were swarmed by undercover cops who were surveilling them the whole time. I belive they were charged with attempted grand theft auto. Took years of legal worries and tons of $$ and they still ended up with criminal records. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bait-bikes-and-cars-a-great-idea-or-entrapment/581502.md?page=3)