Bait bikes and cars: a great idea or entrapment?

[Grumman]

@sh1bu1

Why not park a Ferrari with keys in the ignition in a “good neighborhood” and bust some rich kids going out for a joy ride instead of trying to ruin the lives of people who already have a tough life.

Because the police budget doesn’t have room to go buying Ferrari’s that are likely to get trashed?

Trying to catch professional thieves is fine with me, but going after joy riders by tempting them with an Escalade is not.

Fuck that. Anyone who would knowingly steal a car is scum. Just because the poor kids are easier to catch doesn’t mean they’re some kind of victims of The Man.

[Zeriel]

@sh1bu1

They used a Cadillac Escalade with the keys in the ignition and the door open. Why not park a Ferrari with keys in the ignition in a “good neighborhood” and bust some rich kids going out for a joy ride instead of trying to ruin the lives of people who already have a tough life.

Two reasons:

1. they are more likely to have Escalades (and other high-end SUVs) in the impound lot. They aren’t buying cars for these ops.
2. chop-shops are probably more likely to buy cars that are popular among the type of people who buy cars and car parts from disreputable sources. The average chop shop is going to be more likely to buy an Escalade than a Ferrari, and thus an Escalade as bait is more likely to result in the cops catching the fence and not just the thieves.

[GreasyJack]

@Zeriel

I imagine the idea is to track the car–even a lowest-rung sleazebag is going to have some idea of where he’d fence a car before he steals it unless it’s something he’s going to take for a joyride.

This usually isn’t the idea. They usually pounce on the perp right as they start to drive off or even before (as in the case of the This American Life guy). The bait cars are expensive, even if they do come out of the impound lot (from what I understand, they don’t always), and letting the crooks keep them for a while makes it likely for them to get lost or destroyed.

I’d imagine the small-time crooks netted by these stings have some idea as how to dispose of the car, but for most it’s probably a matter of the swanky car with the keys in the ignition looking like a rare opportunity that they’ll take now and figure out how to deal with later. There’s plenty of criminals out there who may never net more than a few hundred dollars in any of their criminal enterprises and to them a $30,000 car with the keys in the ignition probably looks like a gift from god, even if they have no idea what to do with the thing. This isn’t 1968 or something where any punk with a coat hanger and a pair of pliers can steal a car. These days, the only way you can steal a car is if you’ve got a flatbed or some very specialized training and equipment or you physically steal the keys from the owner. I would suggest if you’re a sophisticated enough crook to routinely steal cars, you’re probably not going to fall for a car sitting there with the keys in it, especially if you know bait cars are active in the area.

It’s not a question of whether or not these small-timers deserve to be taken off the streets or whether their conduct is excusable-- clearly they do and it isn’t. It’s a question of whether spending the high amounts of officer time and department dollars on a bait car sting is really worth it if all it’s bringing in are one or two small-time crooks per outing. Like I said earlier, it clearly does work well in areas with specifically high car theft rates (like Surrey or Phoenix), but doing an operation like this in a just generically “bad” area seems a lot more questionable.

[DrDeth]

@Whack-a-Mole

Apparently the APD will arrest you just for picking up the backpack and taking it without waiting to see what you do with it (maybe you were going to go find a police officer to turn it in…the police cannot know without waiting to see).

ETA: IANAL but can they show mens rea without waiting to see what the person does with the backpack? A car or bike left on the street unlocked is not unusual…that is where you park those things. A backpack is not usual and one filled with beer and cigarettes next to a school it would be reasonable for someone to want to remove it so kids do not find it (I’d think).

Exactly, and in fact I’d pick up the pack too, so I could turn it in to the proper authorities, which is exactly what you’re supposed to do with lost property.

[Mr.Excellent]

@Bricker

In this story, we learn that the Albuquerque Police Department conducted a similar sting program with backpacks which the ACLU did object to:

I’m normally with the ACLU all the way, but it looks like their New Mexico affiliate may have taken this a little far. In particular, I’m not convinced by the argument that people will be irresistably compelled to steal when they see the shiny valuables left by the police. When I found several thousand dollars on the ground near my home, I picked up the money, called the police, and turned it in. (Sixty days later, no one had claimed it, and I scored the money. Sweet!)

Maybe I’m of unusually firm moral character, and this is what saved me from the temptation to just pocket the cash and run. But I really, really don’t believe this to be the case.

[Zeriel]

@GreasyJack

This usually isn’t the idea. They usually pounce on the perp right as they start to drive off or even before (as in the case of the This American Life guy). The bait cars are expensive, even if they do come out of the impound lot (from what I understand, they don’t always), and letting the crooks keep them for a while makes it likely for them to get lost or destroyed.

Y’know, that kinda sucks. I can’t see the purpose of this kind of op if it’s not ultimately targeted at the fences and chop shops.