# Baizuo **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 5, 2019, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749 "2019-09-05T18:13:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![LAZombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b38774/32.png) [@LAZombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LAZombie)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/101 "2019-09-07T15:31:09Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > Yeah and how come feminists may still claim there’s discrimination yet they do nothing to try to get women to play in the NFL!?! Are you equating Asian males to females? I thought diversity is our strength. I guess that doesn’t apply to liberal Hollywood and NBA and NFL. If you want to see a yellow face in Hollywood, the only ones are Sponge Bob and the Simpsons. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/102 "2019-09-07T15:39:54Z")
Right wing debate traps: not fooling anyone since 1776. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/103 "2019-09-07T15:48:14Z")
> [@Mijin](#): > > I wouldn’t blame white supremacy as such, but the US is a country with low social mobility where blacks started _below_ the bottom: many could not say they had as much as a penniless white until maybe a decade or two after the civil rights movement. > > In terms of the Asian-american situation, it’s more complicated. Some indeed started from the bottom, and they would benefit from efforts to make society more meritocratic and less dependent on where you grew up or whether you got tuition for the test. > But many are from families that had already succeeded academically or economically in their home countries. > > And in terms of foreign students coming to the US to study, a high proportion of them are from wealthy families. > So it is not surprising that when we’re talking about economic inequality and how blacks are disadvantaged from where they go to school that few people are concerned with the kids who went to a school in Shanghai that costs $30,000 / yr and got extra tuition on the weekends. > > Then on other issues like police brutality, I am unaware of this even being a problem for asian americans. If it is, then for sure I would also protest that. > > All that said, as someone living in China, it’s clear to me that the whole society places a huge value on academic achievement. > And yes, it would be good if we could build such a culture among say blacks or latinos. I would agree with that. But that doesn’t mean the system is fair for kids growing up in poor families, or that the best or only way to tackle the problems is to focus on culture. Since you are in China, where the term originated, is that attitude actually common? Is there actually a sizable amount of folks who think western liberalism is nutty? Or is it more of a Chinese Internet thing? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/104 "2019-09-07T15:54:34Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > In terms of highly selective colleges (think top 30 in the country) one of the neatest tricks has been convincing upper-middle class white and Asian parents that all “their” slots at these schools have been taken up by under-represented minorities, most especially African Americans, who don’t “deserve” the slot. > > The reality is that the BEST ways to get into a highly selective college are:[ul] > [li]Have parents who went there[/li][li]Have parents who have or seem likely to donate large sums of money [/li][li]Attend one of the top 25 or so “independent” schools in the country[/li][li]Be a recruited athlete[/li][/ul] > > ALL those categories are dominated by rich white elites. But the resentment is aimed at the 7-10% of these schools that are black. > > People who object to AA policies at private schools think that AA is driven by some tree-hugger empathy bullshit. It’s not. Elite schools cater to the (very) wealthy. That’s who built them, that’s who they are for. The very wealthy want to go to school with 1) other very wealthy people 2) interesting people from diverse backgrounds. They don’t particularly want to go to school with a bunch of kids who are the children of professionals, who attended a generic “great” high school full of other children of professionals . They want a chance to have a Black Friend, a Gay Friend, A Poor Friend. But not too many. > > Everyone who is not full-pay at an elite school has been recruited as a PROP to improve the experiences of the kids that pay. Actual admissions officers are often very well-intentioned and want to help individual kids, but the institutional philosophy is about keeping the school the sort of school that Rich Elites want. > > If the T30 schools just quit admitting Black applicants, it would be no easier for middle-class and upper-middle class Asians to get in. They’d just admit more elites. Props? That’s a pretty harsh indictment of higher education. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/105 "2019-09-07T16:01:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > Props? That’s a pretty harsh indictment of higher education. It’s literally what they say. They don’t say “prop”, they say “provide a diverse environment for all students”. But the diversity is there to improve the environment for the rest. And the diversity benefits from the experience, don’t get me wrong–it’s probably a fair trade–but that’s why they have been recruited, as surely as the football player was recruited so that everyone else could have the experience of rooting for a home team. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/106 "2019-09-07T19:06:10Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > It’s literally what they say. They don’t say “prop”, they say “provide a diverse environment for all students”. But the diversity is there to improve the environment for the rest. And the diversity benefits from the experience, don’t get me wrong–it’s probably a fair trade–but that’s why they have been recruited, as surely as the football player was recruited so that everyone else could have the experience of rooting for a home team. I believe you. It’s just I hadn’t thought of the reasons in that way before and it seems inhuman and overly exploitive. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/107 "2019-09-07T22:19:20Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > With Jeremy Lin being kicked out of the NBA, there isn’t a single Asian player in the league. > > Why don’t my liberal friends cry out for diversity? Why doesn’t the woke NBA implement affirmative action to rectify this injustice? Why doesn’t Andrew Yang mention this? He tweets about the Knicks. > > I’ll never understand why Asians vote liberal when it does nothing for them. It’s mostly because the alternative is to vote for racists or people who traffic with them. If they could abandon their racism, they would be a viable alternative for immigrant groups like asians but it looks like they are going in the other direction and doubling down on the racism these days. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/108 "2019-09-07T22:29:39Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …there is no mention of “woke SJW’s” in either case. How are woke SJW’s related to this case? The people supporting Harvard are the woke SJWs. They are the ones telling asians that they are racist for opposing anti-asian discrimination. > [@](#): > > I am no threat to affirmative action, I can assure you. I never said you were. > [@](#): > > I haven’t dismissed any concerns of anti-asian discrimination. Good for you, I never said you did. > [@](#): > > Cite? > [@](#): > > Not even fucking close. Do you seriously still not understand which case I am talking about after I linked all the court documents? Because that was your questions: “…what lawsuit?” [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21845982&postcount=82](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21845982&postcount=82) Then I said the lawsuit against harvard. Then you asked me to be more specific. Are you still confuised about which lawsuit I am talking about or have you shifted to debating the fact that most of the people who are defensing Harvard are woke SJWs? Because i don’t a study I can cite. I can provide a list of examples, starting with the amicus briefs in the harvard case and articles by woke SJWs, Netflix shows about how asians are the worst kinds of americans for fighting against anti-asian discrimination, varoious nthreads on this board where the woke SJW crowd waffles between accusations of racism and flat out denial that there is any discrimination going on. Do YOU believe that harvard is or may be discriminating against asians in the admissions process? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/109 "2019-09-07T22:46:15Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The people supporting Harvard are the woke SJWs. They are the ones telling asians that they are racist for opposing anti-asian discrimination. …I’m a woke SJW. I haven’t told any asians they are racist for opposing anti-asian discrimination. > [@](#): > > I never said you were. But I’m a woke SJW. You did say that I did. > [@](#): > > Good for you, I never said you did. But I am a woke SJW. You are saying that I did. > [@](#): > > Do you seriously still not understand which case I am talking about after I linked all the court documents? Because that was your questions: This has nothing to do with my question. **I answered your question.** > [@](#): > > “…what lawsuit?” > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21845982&postcount=82](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=21845982&postcount=82) > > Then I said the lawsuit against harvard. > > Then you asked me to be more specific. Are you still confuised about which lawsuit I am talking about or have you shifted to debating the fact that most of the people who are defensing Harvard are woke SJWs? > > Because i don’t a study I can cite. I’m not confused at all. You haven’t come fucking close to explaining how woke SJW’s fit into this narrative you’ve created. You are adding 1 + 1 and coming up with 3. Nothing you say makes any sense. > [@](#): > > I can provide a list of examples, starting with the amicus briefs in the harvard case and articles by woke SJWs, Show me these examples written by woke SJW’s. > [@](#): > > Netflix shows about how asians are the worst kinds of americans for fighting against anti-asian discrimination, Cite? > [@](#): > > varoious nthreads on this board where the woke SJW crowd waffles between accusations of racism and flat out denial that there is any discrimination going on. Cite? > [@](#): > > Do YOU believe that harvard is or may be discriminating against asians in the admissions process? To be honest I don’t really give a fuck. I don’t live in America. I can only imagine Harvard in the most abstract of ways. I’m not going to read the legal documents you cited because reading legal document hurts my brain. And with all due respect I don’t trust your interpretation of what those documents say and what they mean. I’m here because you’ve made specific claims about woke SJW’s. And as a member of the woke SJW community I’m here to correct your misconceptions of what it means to be a woke SJW. Woke SJW’s do not “immediately dismiss the concerns of anti-asian discrimination.” That isn’t what we do. Its in our charter. So whatever it is you are ranting about in this thread: it doesn’t have anything at all to do with anything that a woke SJW actually said. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/110 "2019-09-07T22:49:40Z")
> [@you\_with\_the\_face](#): > > Let me walk you through the logic here: > > 1. You start a thread about how Asians feel disenchanted with liberals because they believe baizuo want to use AA to discriminate against Asian-Americans in some convoluted attempt to prove white supremacy is why black and Latinos can’t succeed. Or something. If you are muddling your way through the first part then you are not going to get any of the rest of this. It is very important to understand how much the woke SJW crowd has invested in the notion that all the racial disparity is STILL due to racism (in this case white supremacy) and pretty much ONLY racism. See Critical race theory. And now it has become racist to imply that the URM community might be able to do something to improve its own situation. See how to be an anti-racist. > [@](#): > > 1. I then point out that Asian-Americans have a misplaced focus on AA; most of the discrimination occurs outside of AA. I think you are projecting. Where do I blame AA, or focus on it. It seems to me that YOU are the one that is focused on AA. You are the one that sees anti-asian discrimination through the prism of what effect fightintg anti-asian discrimination might have on AA. You, not me. > [@](#): > > When black and Latino students are constantly the go-to examples for unfairness, if reveals a racially biased mindset taken straight out of white Republican playbooks. “Baizuo” smacks of the same. When did I do that? AFAICT, I mention the unjustly admitted white students far more frequently than AA admits. It seems that once again you are projecting YOUR issues. > [@](#): > > 1. Your response to this is to then deny that Asian-Americans are focused on AA. Which obviously makes no sense, since this very thread is \*about baizuo and their ideological position on AA. Yes, their focus on AA, like yours, blinds them to any arguments that might pose any sort of potential threat to AA even if it means discrimination against asians. Asians are not opposed to AA. They just think the baizuo who oppose addressing anti-asian discrimination because they THINK it might pose some sort of potential threat to AA are actually being racist against asians. > [@](#): > > That’s what you’re saying is all the talk on the internets, right? That reveals the fixation that I’m talking about. The fixation is yours. The fixation is on the part of the baizuo. We’d like to get AA out of the conversation, it is keeping people who would otherwise oppose anti-asian discrimination from doing so. Because they are afraid that in the process of achieving fairness for asians, we might create an argument against AA. THEY are the ones talking about AA, not us. Pretty much every amicus brief is talking about AA. The lawsuit barely mentions it. Almost every article opposing the lawsuit talks about AA. The supporters spend all their time trying to convince people it’s not about AA, it’s about anti-asian discrimination. But our woke SJW friends tell us that we are naive and being hoodwinked because of course this is about AA. They tell us that the white supremacists are only offering a short and temporary respite from discrimination by liberals in order to achieve a greater victory with our unwitting cooperation that will result in much more oppressive discrimination by conservatives… ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/111 "2019-09-07T22:50:41Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Which one, Blum’s or the other one? What other one? I am only aware of Blum’s ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/112 "2019-09-07T23:00:11Z")
Just get to your point. Shodan did it already so there’s no need to be cute. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/113 "2019-09-07T23:02:35Z")
It’s not “woke SJWs” who are defending Harvard’s admission policies – it’s rich white parents. Maybe some of them are liberal, but they’re not defending Harvard because they’re liberal… they’re defending Harvard because they want to justify/rationalize special benefits for their kids. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/114 "2019-09-07T23:14:05Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This premise–“success is supposed to be impossible for anyone that is not white in America’s white supremacist culture”–is an idiotic premise, as easily disproved as the words Oprah Winfrey. > > Fortunately, nobody believes this premise. Anyone who thinks there’s an entire subculture that believes this premise is fantasizing. > > DA, I dearly hope you don’t buy into the ridiculous idea that such people exist. But if you don’t, this thread is puzzling. > > If you do buy into that ridiculous idea, please start by finding a single person with any sort of power whatsoever (here I’m excluding a random highschooler on a Tweetstorm) that holds this belief. Not that success is impossible for any single person. That success is impossible for any minority group. And do you really need cites for that? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/115 "2019-09-07T23:16:34Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > This is telling. As if school admissions should be some rack-and-stack measure of qualifications. Absolutely! Given equal rack and stack qualifications (including extra-curriculars and sports, etc), the white applicants were several times more likely to be admitted than asian applicants. What unquantifiable quality do these white students have in so much abundance that they are several times more likely to be admitted? You are very dismissive of anti-asian discrimination. I wonder if you would be as dismissive of discrimination against other minorities. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2019, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/116 "2019-09-07T23:40:36Z")
> [@LAZombie](#): > > With Jeremy Lin being kicked out of the NBA, there isn’t a single Asian player in the league. > > Why don’t my liberal friends cry out for diversity? Why doesn’t the woke NBA implement affirmative action to rectify this injustice? Why doesn’t Andrew Yang mention this? He tweets about the Knicks. > > I’ll never understand why Asians vote liberal when it does nothing for them. The problem with implementing affirmative action in something like competitive sports is that it’s a uniquely unforgiving environment for those who aren’t cut out for the role. Whatever the reason may be for Asians not being represented well in the NBA - be it their lack of interest in pursuing a roster spot, or lack of physical practice in it, or whatever - forcing teams to have Asian players whether the teams want it or not would be an utter embarrassment on the court. You would end up with Asian players being absolutely drubbed and humiliated on the court because they weren’t truly cut out for it. Jeremy Lin got into the NBA because 1) he had the physical goods and 2) he was psychologically motivated enough to make it happen. If you want affirmative action in academic admissions or the corporate boardroom or something like that, the damage that can be caused is better shielded and less visible. But doing it in a professional sport, in front of a TV audience of millions, would be absolutely cringeworthy. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/117 "2019-09-08T00:21:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Absolutely! > > Given equal rack and stack qualifications (including extra-curriculars and sports, etc), the white applicants were several times more likely to be admitted than asian applicants. > > What unquantifiable quality do these white students have in so much abundance that they are several times more likely to be admitted? > > You are very dismissive of anti-asian discrimination. I wonder if you would be as dismissive of discrimination against other minorities. Serious question–did they weigh feeder schools and relative wealth (not just current income, but “development potential” level wealth? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/118 "2019-09-08T00:34:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Not that success is impossible for any single person. That success is impossible for any minority group. And do you really need cites for that? Uh, yeah, I really fuckin do. I’ve been involved in leftist groups for nearly half a century, and I have never heard a leftist saying that “success is impossible for any minority group.” What a dumbass claim that would be. I think you’ll find, if you look for cites, that this is an imaginary claim. You may consider saving face by citing something different, but I urge you not to go that route, and instead admit that no significant leftist has ever made this claim. That way lies real learning and personal growth. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/119 "2019-09-08T02:02:35Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > In terms of highly selective colleges (think top 30 in the country) one of the neatest tricks has been convincing upper-middle class white and Asian parents that all “their” slots at these schools have been taken up by under-represented minorities, most especially African Americans, who don’t “deserve” the slot. That is not what this is about but for some reason the people who are defending harvard keep insisting that it is. This is not about black kids and affirmative action. This is about anti-asian discrimination, not AA. [quote] The reality is that the BEST ways to get into a highly selective college are:[ul] [li]Have parents who went there[/li][li]Have parents who have or seem likely to donate large sums of money [/li][li]Attend one of the top 25 or so “independent” schools in the country[/li][li]Be a recruited athlete[/li][/ul] And even with these things being corrected for why are white students more likely to be admitted than asian students? > [@](#): > > ALL those categories are dominated by rich white elites. But the resentment is aimed at the 7-10% of these schools that are black. You’re not seeing that resentment here regarding the harvard lawsuit. > [@](#): > > People who object to AA policies at private schools think that AA is driven by some tree-hugger empathy bullshit. It’s not. Elite schools cater to the (very) wealthy. That’s who built them, that’s who they are for. The very wealthy want to go to school with 1) other very wealthy people 2) interesting people from diverse backgrounds. They don’t particularly want to go to school with a bunch of kids who are the children of professionals, who attended a generic “great” high school full of other children of professionals . They want a chance to have a Black Friend, a Gay Friend, A Poor Friend. But not too many. This sounds like a really good argument for removing their tax exampt status. I will note that asian admission at harvard this year have reached a 40 year high. Why is the asian population at Harvard the same as it was 40 years ago despite the asian population being about 4 times larger? You sure there’s no anti-asian discrimination there? > [@](#): > > Everyone who is not full-pay at an elite school has been recruited as a PROP to improve the experiences of the kids that pay. Actual admissions officers are often very well-intentioned and want to help individual kids, but the institutional philosophy is about keeping the school the sort of school that Rich Elites want. > > If the T30 schools just quit admitting Black applicants, it would be no easier for middle-class and upper-middle class Asians to get in. They’d just admit more elites. So in your estimation they are sacrificing rich white students to admit the poor black ones? I have studies that say otherwise. Do you also have studies that support your position? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749/120 "2019-09-08T02:05:21Z")
> [@MandaJo](#): > > And I missed that there was a second page. My apologies for the redundancies. > > One other thing: I do a LOT of highly selective college admissions work, and one thing I would add is that it is every bit as hard for a white, upper-middle class kid to get into a T20 as an Asian kid with the same stats. This doesn’t show up in the data, because it doesn’t distinguish between > > [ul] > [li]Taylor, whose parents are a moderately successful lawyer and doctor and have a household income of $275K and who goes to “one of the best high schools in [flyover state]”[/li] > [li]Jordan, whose parents are partners at a partners at their respective law firms and who make $850K/year and who went to Lawrence Academy[/li][/ul] > > But I gotta tell you, it doesn’t matter if Taylor is Asian or white. They will have to have cured cancer to get into Harvard. Jordan will not have to do nearly as much–Asian or white. The discrimination is toward sorta generic High Income, Low Wealth kids. And yet places like Harvard have a higher threshhold for recruiting asians from flyover country compared to the white kids in [flyover flyover]. Why is there a higher threshhold for an asian student to be recruited based on their PSAT? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/baizuo/839749.md?page=7)