# baker's dozen

**URL:** <https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674>\
**Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\
**Created:** [October 17, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674 "2002-10-17T15:06:53Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 11\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Candlemas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Candlemas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candlemas)\
**Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/1 "2002-10-17T15:06:53Z")

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I always thought the 13th was to eat on the way home. 😃

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**Author:** ![Candlemas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a8b319/32.png) [@Candlemas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Candlemas)\
**Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/2 "2002-10-17T15:10:29Z")

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BTW - [http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbakersdozen.html](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mbakersdozen.html)

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**Author:** ![AmbushBug](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ambushbug/32/4600_2.png) [@AmbushBug](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmbushBug)\
**Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/3 "2002-10-17T17:51:41Z")

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The Baker’s ears, from the staff report:

> [@](#):
>
> nothing involving ears, so far as I know

From [here](http://www.ah.dcr.state.nc.us/sections/hp/colonial/editions/Acts/bills.htm):

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> Such person or persons so offending, shall for the first offence be Whipped at the Discretion of the Court, not Exceeding Forty Lashes, and stand in the pillory two hours, and have **One Ear Nailed** and Cutt off, And for the Second offence whipp’d as aforesaid, and have **the other Ear nailed to the pillory** and Cutt off, and branded in the hand with a hott Iron, and for the third offence Felony etc.

-AmbushBug

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**Author:** ![C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)\
**Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/4 "2002-10-17T22:32:14Z")

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Thanks, Ambush, for the interesting link… but that’s South Carolina, not the UK, and (although I didn’t read it carefully) relating to counterfeiting bills of credit?

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**Author:** ![Truth\_Seeker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5fc32e/32.png) [@Truth\_Seeker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Truth_Seeker)\
**Post date:** [October 17, 2002, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/5 "2002-10-17T23:48:41Z")

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> [@](#):
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> \*\*In the mid-13th century, British law imposed strict regulations on bakers regarding the weight of bread. Bakers wanted to make sure they complied, since the penalties were severe (a fine or the pillory, although nothing involving ears, so far as I know). It was difficult to make loaves of uniform weight in those days before automation, so bakers added a 13th loaf to every shipment of 12–better to be overweight than under. Thus “a baker’s dozen” meant 13.

\*\*  
I’m not sure I buy this – “every shipment of 12?” Medieval bakers weren’t exactly Wonder Bread. Bread was baked for local consumption.

Second, I’m not entirely sure how throwing in an extra loaf would necessarily solve the problem of underweight loaves. Is there some historical reference claiming this is a safe harbour for medieval bakers?

My guess is that the real reason for the baker’s dozen has to do with the fact that bread was consumed locally and that there weren’t any food preservatives. A successful day for the baker is when he runs out of bread to sell. If I were a medieval baker, I’d want to encourage people to buy, say, 12 loaves instead of 9 loaves, thereby shifting the potential cost of wasted bread to them.

In a vaguely related aside, a loaf of medieval bread alway cost a farthing, but the the weight of a loaf varied depending on the price of wheat.

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> \*\*When a Quarter of Wheat is sold for 12d., then Wastel Bread of a farthing shall weigh £6 and 16s. But Bread Cocket of a farthing of the same grain and bultel, shall weigh more than Wastel by 2s. And Cocket Bread made of grain of lower price, shall weigh more than Wastel by 5s. Bread made into a Simnel shall weigh 2s. less than Wastel. Bread made of the whole Wheat shall weigh a Cocket and a half, so that a Cocket shall weigh more than a Wastel by 5s. Bread of Treet shall weigh 2 wastels. And bread of common wheat shall weigh two great cockets.

\*\*

What we have here are the makings of the word problem from hell.

[http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/breadbeer.html](http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/breadbeer.html)

This link also discusses the penalties for cheating – no mention of ears, though

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**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/6 "2002-10-18T02:13:58Z")

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> [@](#):
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> A successful day for the baker is when he runs out of bread to sell. If I were a medieval baker, I’d want to encourage people to buy, say, 12 loaves instead of 9 loaves, thereby shifting the potential cost of wasted bread to them.

Interesting supposition, **TS** , but did a person buy 9-12 loaves of bread at a time? I doubt it. You bought your bread daily or perhaps every other day. Because there were no preservatives(or freezers), you wouldn’t buy too far ahead.

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**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/7 "2002-10-18T12:02:24Z")

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I’m having problems accepting the baker’s dozen relating to loaves of bread as well, especially in regards to weight. Though the link supplied by **Truth Seeker** supports the notion that weight of a loaf was an issue.

I can’t imagine who would be buying a dozen loaves of bread at a time, given the aforementioned lack of preservatives. Even a family of twelve would be hard pressed to buy 12 loaves of bread at once, unless there’s something fundamentally different about their loaves and ours (besides our’s being presliced). Like maybe a loaf of bread was really what we’d call a muffin?

The answer that always seemed most logical to me was that the 13th whatever (loaf of bread, donut, muffin, etc) was for samples. The baker has some of his wares on display and if you want to see if the bread is any good, you can take a taste. Thus when the baker made a dozen of something, he made an extra as a sample. Sort of pre-industrial quality control. But that would then require the transition from having an extra for sampling to including the extra in the dozen - making it for the baker to giving it to the customer.

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**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\
**Post date:** [October 18, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/8 "2002-10-18T20:24:54Z")

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If staying on the right side of the laws was the issue, then why not instead use a “baker’s pound”, or equivalent units? The baker’s dozen only protects you if you’re selling in quantity… What if the guy who just buys one loaf complains that it’s underweight?

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**Author:** ![abdul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@abdul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abdul)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/9 "2002-10-21T11:49:13Z")

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So I always thought that “dealers” in general were trying to rip off their customers on a slight weight difference, assuming they had a more precise measurement than the average “desperate” customer did. The same applies very frequently in recent days, especially in the NW with weed… These people here charge $50 for a 1/8 oz, where it should go for no more than $40. Yeah, you guys in Pennsylvania probably hate me, but hey, MOVE! Anyway, it’s good to know that at one point in time people were actually trying to obtain customer satisfaction without concern for “plausible deniability.” Lawyers didn’t have much market penetration back then, I’m guessing. Don’t lub dem hoze.

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**Author:** ![abdul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@abdul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/abdul)\
**Post date:** [October 21, 2002, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/10 "2002-10-21T11:52:16Z")

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New question, tho… What happens when the loaf of bread is a day old in times of olde? It obviously dries out, but did they have a standard for weighing it, based on its age? They certainly need to obtain such a standard for today’s less-than-ubiquitous markets. \<=

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**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\
**Post date:** [October 23, 2002, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/132674/11 "2002-10-23T04:37:45Z")

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**abdul** , despite the word “dope” being in the name of this board, we are not about drugs. Please refrain.