# Bakers Dozen **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [August 4, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173 "2010-08-04T17:56:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1248
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24944 "2014-04-19T23:10:34Z")
Music with Unusual Time Signatures 1. Blue Rondo a la Turk (Dave Brubeck - 9/8) 2. Wanderlove (Mason Williams - 10/4) 3. Touch and Go (The Cars - verses are in 5/4) 4. Take Five (Dave Brubeck - 5/4) 5. Turn it on Again (Genesis - 13/4) 6. Trial Before Pilate (Including the Thirty-Nine Lashes), from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar includes 4/4, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, and 2/8, and the time signature in the piece varies a total of 41 times. 7. Happiness Is a Warm Gun (Beatles, cycles variously through 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 9/8, 12/8, etc) 8. Subdivisions - (Rush, 7/8) 9. Money - Pink Floyd (7/4 IIRC) 10. My Wave - Soundgarden (5/4) 11. I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick (uses 10/4 for verses and 11/4 for its chorus) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24945 "2014-04-19T23:18:44Z")
Music with Unusual Time Signatures 1. Blue Rondo a la Turk (Dave Brubeck - 9/8) 2. Wanderlove (Mason Williams - 10/4) 3. Touch and Go (The Cars - verses are in 5/4) 4. Take Five (Dave Brubeck - 5/4) 5. Turn it on Again (Genesis - 13/4) 6. Trial Before Pilate (Including the Thirty-Nine Lashes), from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar includes 4/4, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, and 2/8, and the time signature in the piece varies a total of 41 times. 7. Happiness Is a Warm Gun (Beatles, cycles variously through 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 9/8, 12/8, etc) 8. Subdivisions - (Rush, 7/8) 9. Money - Pink Floyd (7/4 IIRC) 10. My Wave - Soundgarden (5/4) 11. I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick (uses 10/4 for verses and 11/4 for its chorus) 12. Clair de Lune (Debussy - 9/8) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24946 "2014-04-20T03:09:58Z")
Music with Unusual Time Signatures 1. Blue Rondo a la Turk (Dave Brubeck - 9/8) 2. Wanderlove (Mason Williams - 10/4) 3. Touch and Go (The Cars - verses are in 5/4) 4. Take Five (Dave Brubeck - 5/4) 5. Turn it on Again (Genesis - 13/4) 6. Trial Before Pilate (Including the Thirty-Nine Lashes), from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar includes 4/4, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, and 2/8, and the time signature in the piece varies a total of 41 times. 7. Happiness Is a Warm Gun (Beatles, cycles variously through 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 9/8, 12/8, etc) 8. Subdivisions - (Rush, 7/8) 9. Money - Pink Floyd (7/4 IIRC) 10. My Wave - Soundgarden (5/4) 11. I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick (uses 10/4 for verses and 11/4 for its chorus) 12. Clair de Lune (Debussy - 9/8) 13. Tubular Bells - (Mike Oldfield - first several minutes vary between 7/4 and 4/4) Next: Films directed by George Roy Hill 14. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24947 "2014-04-20T03:16:24Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24948 "2014-04-20T03:35:04Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24949 "2014-04-20T04:19:23Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24950 "2014-04-20T04:25:33Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient ---
**Author:** ![buddha\_david](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ee7513/32.png) [@buddha\_david](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buddha_david)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24951 "2014-04-20T04:32:46Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24952 "2014-04-20T06:17:55Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 A surprisingly good job of filming an unfilmable novel. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24953 "2014-04-20T06:34:45Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper William Goldman has said he made a mistake in this script by unexpectedly killing a character. He said it worked for the story but he lost the audience. ---
**Author:** ![Bullitt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bullitt/32/5725_2.png) [@Bullitt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bullitt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24954 "2014-04-20T14:08:29Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper 9. A Little Romance (1979) ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24955 "2014-04-20T15:52:38Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper 9. A Little Romance (1979) 10. The Little Drummer Girl His next-to-last. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24956 "2014-04-20T17:44:30Z")
[Want to add this comment/nitpick because I missed a few days, and once upon a time people actually paid me to think about these things and it may be of interest…] Music with Unusual Time Signatures 1. Blue Rondo a la Turk (Dave Brubeck - 9/8) 2. Wanderlove (Mason Williams - 10/4) 3. Touch and Go (The Cars - verses are in 5/4) 4. Take Five (Dave Brubeck - 5/4) 5. Turn it on Again (Genesis - 13/4) 6. Trial Before Pilate (Including the Thirty-Nine Lashes), from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar includes 4/4, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, and 2/8, and the time signature in the piece varies a total of 41 times. 7. Happiness Is a Warm Gun (Beatles, cycles variously through 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 9/8, 12/8, etc) 8. Subdivisions - (Rush, 7/8) 9. Money - Pink Floyd (7/4 IIRC) 10. My Wave - Soundgarden (5/4) 11. I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick (uses 10/4 for verses and 11/4 for its chorus) 12. Clair de Lune (Debussy - 9/8) 13. Tubular Bells - (Mike Oldfield - first several minutes vary between 7/4 and 4/4) We’ve got here, which is cool, various takes: 1. Multiple subsequent time signatures–meters, which is different than 2. A consistent “unusual” meter (unusual to us Western post Renaissance listeners), unusual in that it implies rhythmic units boiling down/adding up at some level to multiples of 3 beats or 4 beats–a _rhythm_–which is different than 3. Meters which are overridden, either throughout the piece or at times, by a competing rhythm, ie non-divisible w/o a remainder spilling over, which is related to but different than 4. Meters which are overridden at times by a different rhythm at a larger level but without a spillover. They all have clearer or less clear examples. For multiple subsequent meters (my 1)), an easy and famous one is Stravinsky’s _Rite of Spring_–but, before you get all intricate, consider that Leonard Bernstein, for one, said “fuck it,” drew big red lines every two or four bars on much of the score, and conducted it that way and let the rhythmic impulses fall where they may. Similarly, _all_ of Western Renaissance church music, with its vocal lines coming in and out to their own musical impulses of unique arcs not beholden to a metric pattern beyond its own, was conducted, when necessary, by one guy moving his hand up-down throughout: one-two-- but “binary” metrics is simply a non-sequitur. FTR, my meter/rhythm type 4) above was not listed in the dozen. A fun modern one is “Everything’s Better in America” from _West Side Story._ 1. I was moved to write this because of the first on the dozen, Brubeck’s “Blue Rondo,” which is an amazing example of my 3), as opposed to his famous “Take 5,” which is a plain old 2). (“Blue Rondo” technically would be in whatever the Latin would be for “sesquialtera+one third”; in Ars Nova notation from late 1300s it would be a piece of cake to read and write by writing a 3 in the meter and then putting the notes in red. Then back to black notes if you want the 3-sies again.) 2. Here’s the nitpick part: I’m interested why you feel “Claire d’Lune” to be unusual metrically? The last section with the even quarter notes? 3. Finally, my last addition to the dozen, and which I’ve used to win bar bets with inclined people: the theme from _Mission Impossible_. 5/4. It’s fun to click off the fingers on one hand while singing it for proof. (The last two notes are ring finger, pinky.) [End comments. Needed to ramp up brain cells.] ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24957 "2014-04-20T17:51:47Z")
Instead of 1. A consistent “unusual” meter (unusual to us Western post Renaissance listeners), unusual in that it implies rhythmic units boiling down/adding up at some level to multiples of 3 beats or 4 beats–a _rhythm_–which is different than Read: 1. A consistent “unusual” meter (unusual to us Western post Renaissance listeners), unusual in that it implies rhythmic units **NOT** boiling down/adding up at some level to multiples of 3 beats or 4 beats–a _rhythm_–which is different than ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24958 "2014-04-20T19:41:44Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper 9. A Little Romance (1979) 10. The Little Drummer Girl 11. Hawaii ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24959 "2014-04-20T20:06:19Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper 9. A Little Romance (1979) 10. The Little Drummer Girl 11. Hawaii 12. Thoroughly Modern Millie ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24960 "2014-04-20T22:21:09Z")
Films directed by George Roy Hill 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid 2. The World According to Garp 3. Slap Shot 4. The Sting 5. The World of Henry Orient 6. Funny Farm 7. Slaughterhouse 5 8. The Great Waldo Pepper 9. A Little Romance (1979) 10. The Little Drummer Girl 11. Hawaii 12. Thoroughly Modern Millie 13. Period of Adjustment I’ll pass ---
**Author:** ![NDP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ndp/32/55_2.png) [@NDP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NDP)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24961 "2014-04-20T22:32:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Films directed by George Roy Hill > > 1. Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid > 2. The World According to Garp > 3. Slap Shot > 4. The Sting > 5. The World of Henry Orient > 6. Funny Farm > 7. Slaughterhouse 5 > 8. The Great Waldo Pepper > 9. A Little Romance (1979) > 10. The Little Drummer Girl > 11. Hawaii > 12. Thoroughly Modern Millie > 13. Period of Adjustment > > I’ll pass I’ll try. Name a professional team athlete (football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.) whose last season before retiring was a good one. (If you can, include stats or a link to the stats.) 1. Ted Williams (29 HR, 72 RBI, .316 BA) ---
**Author:** ![burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/burpo_the_wonder_mutt/32/365_2.png) [@burpo\_the\_wonder\_mutt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/burpo_the_wonder_mutt)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24962 "2014-04-20T22:56:50Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > [Want to add this comment/nitpick because I missed a few days, and once upon a time people actually paid me to think about these things and it may be of interest…] > > Music with Unusual Time Signatures > > 1. Blue Rondo a la Turk (Dave Brubeck - 9/8) > 2. Wanderlove (Mason Williams - 10/4) > 3. Touch and Go (The Cars - verses are in 5/4) > 4. Take Five (Dave Brubeck - 5/4) > 5. Turn it on Again (Genesis - 13/4) > 6. Trial Before Pilate (Including the Thirty-Nine Lashes), from the musical Jesus Christ Superstar includes 4/4, 3/4, 5/8, 2/4, 6/8, 6/4, 5/4, 7/4, 7/8, and 2/8, and the time signature in the piece varies a total of 41 times. > 7. Happiness Is a Warm Gun (Beatles, cycles variously through 4/4, 5/4, 6/4, 9/8, 12/8, etc) > 8. Subdivisions - (Rush, 7/8) > 9. Money - Pink Floyd (7/4 IIRC) > 10. My Wave - Soundgarden (5/4) > 11. I Say A Little Prayer - Dionne Warwick (uses 10/4 for verses and 11/4 for its chorus) > 12. Clair de Lune (Debussy - 9/8) > 13. Tubular Bells - (Mike Oldfield - first several minutes vary between 7/4 and 4/4) > We’ve got here, which is cool, various takes: > > 1. Multiple subsequent time signatures–meters, which is different than > 2. A consistent “unusual” meter (unusual to us Western post Renaissance listeners), unusual in that it implies rhythmic units boiling down/adding up at some level to multiples of 3 beats or 4 beats–a _rhythm_–which is different than > 3. Meters which are overridden, either throughout the piece or at times, by a competing rhythm, ie non-divisible w/o a remainder spilling over, which is related to but different than > 4. Meters which are overridden at times by a different rhythm at a larger level but without a spillover. > > They all have clearer or less clear examples. For multiple subsequent meters (my 1)), an easy and famous one is Stravinsky’s _Rite of Spring_–but, before you get all intricate, consider that Leonard Bernstein, for one, said “fuck it,” drew big red lines every two or four bars on much of the score, and conducted it that way and let the rhythmic impulses fall where they may. Similarly, _all_ of Western Renaissance church music, with its vocal lines coming in and out to their own musical impulses of unique arcs not beholden to a metric pattern beyond its own, was conducted, when necessary, by one guy moving his hand up-down throughout: one-two-- but “binary” metrics is simply a non-sequitur. > > FTR, my meter/rhythm type 4) above was not listed in the dozen. A fun modern one is “Everything’s Better in America” from _West Side Story._ > > 1. I was moved to write this because of the first on the dozen, Brubeck’s “Blue Rondo,” which is an amazing example of my 3), as opposed to his famous “Take 5,” which is a plain old 2). (“Blue Rondo” technically would be in whatever the Latin would be for “sesquialtera+one third”; in Ars Nova notation from late 1300s it would be a piece of cake to read and write by writing a 3 in the meter and then putting the notes in red. Then back to black notes if you want the 3-sies again.) > > 2. Here’s the nitpick part: I’m interested why you feel “Claire d’Lune” to be unusual metrically? The last section with the even quarter notes? > > 3. Finally, my last addition to the dozen, and which I’ve used to win bar bets with inclined people: the theme from _Mission Impossible_. 5/4. It’s fun to click off the fingers on one hand while singing it for proof. (The last two notes are ring finger, pinky.) > > [End comments. Needed to ramp up brain cells.] I apologize for quoting the whole shebang, but I wasn’t about to edit all this. The heading was Unusual Time Signatures; explain why 9/8 is OK for #1 (Brubeck), but not for #12 (Debussy). Who mentioned **metrically**? I was trying to close out the durn list 'cause it seemed to be getting old. ---
**Author:** ![Infovore](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/infovore/32/420_2.png) [@Infovore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Infovore)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/24963 "2014-04-20T22:59:25Z")
Name a professional team athlete (football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer, etc.) whose last season before retiring was a good one. (If you can, include stats or a link to the stats.) 1. Ted Williams (29 HR, 72 RBI, .316 BA) 2. John Elway (won Super Bowl and MVP) I predict this one’s going to take a while. I hope I’m wrong. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173.md?page=1247) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173.md?page=1249)