# Bakers Dozen **URL:** \ **Category:** Thread Games\ **Created:** [August 4, 2010, 5:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173 "2010-08-04T17:56:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 268
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5341 "2011-05-11T03:59:22Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5342 "2011-05-11T13:31:35Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville 10. [Teruel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teruel) Oh … sorry. You meant the _American_ civil war ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5343 "2011-05-11T15:00:57Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville 10. [Teruel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teruel) Oh … sorry. You meant the _American_ civil war 1. Ft. Donelson ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5344 "2011-05-11T15:56:59Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville 10. Ft. Donelson 11. Cherbourg > **[Battle of Cherbourg (1864)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Cherbourg_(1864))** > > The Battle of Cherbourg, or sometimes the Battle off Cherbourg or the Sinking of CSS Alabama, was a single-ship action fought during the American Civil War between a United States Navy warship, USS Kearsarge, and a Confederate States Navy warship, CSS Alabama, on June 19, 1864, off Cherbourg, France. > After five successful commerce raiding missions in the Atlantic Ocean, CSS Alabama turned into Cherbourg Harbor on June 11, 1864. The Confederate States sloop-of-war was commanded by Captain Raphael... ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5345 "2011-05-11T16:19:54Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville 10. Ft. Donelson 11. Cherbourg 12. Fort Pillow ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5346 "2011-05-11T16:28:28Z")
Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee 1. Chickamauga 2. Vicksburg 3. Shiloh 4. Chattanooga 5. First Bull Run 6. The Atlanta Campaign 7. Battle of Corydon 8. Murfreesboro 9. Bentonville 10. Ft. Donelson 11. Cherbourg 12. Fort Pillow 13. Hampton Roads > **[Battle of Hampton Roads](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_hampton_roads)** > > The Battle of Hampton Roads, also referred to as the Battle of the Monitor and Merrimack (rebuilt and renamed as the CSS Virginia) or the Battle of Ironclads, was a naval battle during the American Civil War. > The battle was fought over two days, March 8 and 9, 1862, in Hampton Roads, a roadstead in Virginia where the Elizabeth and Nansemond rivers meet the James River just before it enters Chesapeake Bay adjacent to the city of Norfolk. The battle was a part of the effort of the Confederacy to... Next category: Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5347 "2011-05-11T16:30:41Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neil ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5348 "2011-05-11T16:32:33Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5349 "2011-05-11T16:59:34Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich ---
**Author:** ![Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Marconi\_N.Cheese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marconi_N.Cheese)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5350 "2011-05-11T17:47:09Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5351 "2011-05-11T18:24:30Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg The first Speaker: [Frederick Muhlenberg - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Muhlenberg) ---
**Author:** ![Rebo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rebo/32/13005_2.png) [@Rebo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rebo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5352 "2011-05-11T18:32:19Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5353 "2011-05-11T18:48:33Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi 7. William B. Bankhead Father of actress Tallulah Bankhead. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5354 "2011-05-11T19:20:40Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi 7. William B. Bankhead 8. Henry Clay ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5355 "2011-05-11T20:14:31Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi 7. William B. Bankhead 8. Henry Clay 9. Joe Cannon Pictured on the first cover of _Time_ magazine. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5356 "2011-05-11T21:36:11Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi 7. William B. Bankhead 8. Henry Clay 9. Joe Cannon Pictured on the first cover of _Time_ magazine. 10. John W. McCormack ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5357 "2011-05-11T23:17:08Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee > > 1. Chickamauga > 2. Vicksburg > 3. Shiloh > 4. Chattanooga > 5. First Bull Run > 6. The Atlanta Campaign > 7. Battle of Corydon > 8. Murfreesboro > 9. Bentonville > 10. [Teruel](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Teruel) > > Oh … sorry. You meant the _American_ civil war > > 1. Ft. Donelson Sometimes USAians don’t get irony …:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5358 "2011-05-11T23:22:31Z")
Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives 1. Sam Rayburn 2. Tip O’Neill 3. John Boehner 4, Newt Gingrich 4. Tom Foley 5. Frederick Muhlenberg 6. Nancy Pelosi 7. William B. Bankhead 8. Henry Clay 9. Joe Cannon Pictured on the first cover of _Time_ magazine. 10. John W. McCormack 11. Galusha Grow SotH under Lincoln (first 2 years) ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2011, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5359 "2011-05-11T23:27:21Z")
> [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](#): > > Sometimes USAians don’t get irony …:rolleyes: Other times we assume that **Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee** signifies without further address that it is specifically the U.S. Civil War as Lee did not participate in any other, that _Civil War_ is capitalized (thus a specific civil war and not civil wars in general). Had the category been _Civil War Victories by Roundheads_ I think most Dopers would have known without qualification it was a reference to the English Civil War, the only other civil war I can think of off hand fought in a country where English is the first language; Canada hasn’t had a proclaimed Civil War yet (though there’s still plenty of time and I here Saskatchewan is planning something) but books have been written on its significance in the U.S. Civil War and I’d wager if a Canadian heard the term “Civil War movie” they’d think Lincoln before they thought Cromwell. Had it been “Battles in the Bolivian Civil War” I think it just would have set there for a few days. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [May 12, 2011, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173/5360 "2011-05-12T00:00:09Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > Other times we assume that **Civil War Battles that did not involve Robert E. Lee** signifies without further address that it is specifically the U.S. Civil War as Lee did not participate in any other, that _Civil War_ is capitalized (thus a specific civil war and not civil wars in general). Had the category been _Civil War Victories by Roundheads_ I think most Dopers would have known without qualification it was a reference to the English Civil War, the only other civil war I can think of off hand fought in a country where English is the first language; Canada hasn’t had a proclaimed Civil War yet (though there’s still plenty of time and I here Saskatchewan is planning something) but books have been written on its significance in the U.S. Civil War and I’d wager if a Canadian heard the term “Civil War movie” they’d think Lincoln before they thought Cromwell. Had it been “Battles in the Bolivian Civil War” I think it just would have set there for a few days. Yes, yes of course. But Teruel is indeed a civil war battle which did not involve Robert E Lee. So it was not fair to exclude it… unless you have specified which civil war. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173.md?page=267) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/bakers-dozen/549173.md?page=269)